"Point of no return" with girl trying to get your

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PaulHubert
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17 Sep 2014, 8:41 pm

I'm talking about a woman trying (I won't say desperately) to get your attention, and that one time she gave you the blatant green light to make a move, and you either weren't prepared or too afraid to say something stupid, and because you didn't act, her feelings were too hurt to want to keep trying. There is this girl in my class; the first day of class, two classmates (including her) and myself went into the wrong room, this girl sits at the desk in front of me out of all the desks (it wasn't super close, these are lab classrooms with computers..but still), I think she asked my name and I asked for hers back...after that, it was me looking up the email on my computer to see what classroom I was supposed to be in, eventually I gave up (on looking for the class that is) and left, but said "see ya later" before leaving. Following that, we've had 3 classes together, it's mostly made up of her occasionally asking for my help with clicking on the right thing (it's a lab, we do what the prof tells us on the computer). Today, she came in wearing a dressy outfit with a red ribbon in her hair...of coarse I'm not the best at reading body language, but I noticed she turned her head a few times in my direction; at the end of class, she randomly turned to me and said "how are you?" I just said "Good!" in a friendly tone...that's it, I felt like an idiot; I barely gave her any attention. I saw her again in the study lab, I was sitting in back third row, middle island, she came and sat in at middle row, right island...I hoped she assumed I was too into my studies to recognize her coming in, and that I wouldn't recognize her from behind. On both occasions I was actually deliberately thinking "be ultra conservative, go home, think about what to do next time", but there was a high risk high reward opportunity left on the table at a time where she was wanting attention. So, is it common for a woman to give up because of one disappointing occasion (or multiple ones where this was simply "the last straw") where she is either too hurt or feels too sure that this isn't going anywhere: and if so, can a little positive feedback next time spark her interest again? Or, is it likely, and usually the case, that the potential for a relationship is like a tree being chopped down when the girl doesn't get the feedback she wants. Of coarse we can't know for sure what's going on in her head, but having an idea of what to expect would be very helpful.



Johannes88
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17 Sep 2014, 11:02 pm

Ok, timing is key with flirtation, but you are just staring at her looking to make small talk. I find we suck at that. My advice, sounds like she's semi comfortable with you and you're being helpful to her. You need to observe and try to help her with something, use your talents. Then next time, you can bring it up, maybe ask how it worked out.

You're worrying too much about the nitty gritty, attraction is about her liking you, not you worrying about liking her liking you. Just be confident and smile to her like you're sharing an inside moment and walk with a swagger and you won't have to say much.

If you play it off right you can be more the strong moody type.



PaulHubert
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18 Sep 2014, 7:14 pm

I like where you're taking the focus in regards to confidence...but being a helper as a means to connect with her is different than being a "tool", is that right?



Johannes88
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18 Sep 2014, 7:29 pm

Depends on whether you present yourself as a mentor or a homework slave.

You don't help a girl carry something heavy bc you're dying for her affection, you help because you're strong and she's weak. You don't buy a girl nice things bc you need her, you do it bc you're rich and you don't mind dropping a few dollars so everybody can have fun.



PaulHubert
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30 Sep 2014, 3:25 pm

Will an admin please move this to the dating forum, thank you.



dianthus
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30 Sep 2014, 3:54 pm

PaulHubert wrote:
So, is it common for a woman to give up because of one disappointing occasion (or multiple ones where this was simply "the last straw") where she is either too hurt or feels too sure that this isn't going anywhere: and if so, can a little positive feedback next time spark her interest again? Or, is it likely, and usually the case, that the potential for a relationship is like a tree being chopped down when the girl doesn't get the feedback she wants.


I have no idea what is typical for other women but just speaking for myself...if I really like a guy and feel attracted to him the potential would still be there. But if I didn't feel like my gestures were being reciprocated at all I would probably give up pretty quickly and leave it to the guy to make the next move.

If I thought a guy probably had feelings for me but was shy or not confident in himself I would find that endearing, and I would want to keep trying, just to give every possible opportunity. But I think most women are not like that. Society tells us that the guy is supposed to make the first move and do all the pursuit and you are just supposed to hold back and wait for it. Forward women are seen as desperate or slu*ty or worse.



PaulHubert
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30 Sep 2014, 4:37 pm

dianthus wrote:

I have no idea what is typical for other women but just speaking for myself...if I really like a guy and feel attracted to him the potential would still be there. But if I didn't feel like my gestures were being reciprocated at all I would probably give up pretty quickly and leave it to the guy to make the next move.

If I thought a guy probably had feelings for me but was shy or not confident in himself I would find that endearing, and I would want to keep trying, just to give every possible opportunity. But I think most women are not like that. Society tells us that the guy is supposed to make the first move and do all the pursuit and you are just supposed to hold back and wait for it. Forward women are seen as desperate or slu*ty or worse.


I don't think there's much good in speculating if she has reached that point, until I actually get some feedback. I really want to beat myself up like a punching bag for possibly blowing an opportunity , it would feel natural, but it would also be useless. I will be open to whatever happens, and at the very least, I will use the pain of this experience as motivation to make a move sooner when my gut tells me something is happening. The absolute most important thing is how I internalize this experience, especially if it doesn't go my way (ie where is the opportunity for improvement) not base the entire value of the experience based on getting the result I want. If I really believe that, I've already won, and I have no pressure on me tomorrow.

BTW, There are plenty of women like you out there, a lot of you want to activate the social side of "the quiet stranger"; and our society is moving in the direction of a fair balance of relationships where men, and relationships where women, are the primary decision makers...it is not all cowboy culture like you think it is (but it may not ever get to 50.50 either). My only thought is, if you get what you want through hard work and assertiveness, you have truly earned it; when you aren't and you still get it (like with a girl who will keep trying and trying), you take it but you're also very grateful.

Johannes88, the advise is appreciated, my gut is telling me I should get to know her a bit, maybe it's time for me to practice small talk.



PaulHubert
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08 Oct 2014, 6:52 pm

So basically two weeks passed since she wore the dress; one week she was absent, the next she was sick and sat by herself in the opposite corner. She caught me (at least I thought she did) looking at her a couple of times, and immediately looked away once she turned her head (like I was hiding something...bad idea). So today she sat next to me again, I did a little small talk, and then said "You probably noticed me looking at you a couple times last class, I wanted to tell you I noticed how nice you've been to me, and I want to return the favor." This is very close to what my therapist suggested me saying, he was completely invested in optimizing my chances for success right now, he did not purposefully tell me to say something inappropriate...that particular approach would just strike most people as a bit forthright. I do feel like I forgot a tiny bit of the first part of that sentence, and it may have come across a little creepy because of my slightly off choice of words. She looked confused when I told her both things, she clearly did not notice me looking at her, and in terms of "returning the favor" she either completely moved on from "the dress day", or I simply misread her, it was pretty awkward. The sky didn't fall, it just ended up being a good laugh for me after the fact. This was my last opportunity to make a move, I knew that if I performed somewhat well and she actually still liked me, a future date would be on the table, otherwise, it would be terribly awkward for her. I obsessed over this moment all week, solely focusing on just taking the risk, basically letter her know how I feel, and saying screw it if it's awkward, seriously, I am done caring about avoiding risks simply to eliminate the possibility of making others uncomfortable, I have every right to act in my best interest even if it inconveniences others. So I while it certainly didn't turn out the way I wanted it to, I'm very proud of myself for doing something I believed in, I think I just turned a corner.