NVLD - bad, misleading, inadequate name

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Do you think that (at least "social" subtype of) "NVLD" is a PDD or a disorder from autistic spectrum (or rather autistic "ballpark")
Definately yes 28%  28%  [ 10 ]
Yes 44%  44%  [ 16 ]
No 28%  28%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 36

nca14
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13 Dec 2014, 4:50 am

The name NLD may suggest that it is just something like dyslexia. This name might be irritating.

NLD may be just difficulty with reading nonverbal informations, such as graphs, maps, clocks. It looks ad a type of "developmental dysexecutive disorder" (DDD). "Dysexecutiveness" sounds more serious than "learning disorder". "NLD" may look as a form of pervasive developmental dysexecutiveness. In my case "NLD" may be a dysexecutive problem, not a learning disorder.

The current use of the name "NLD" has to be abolished. The name diminished the problems of people who suffer because of that. I have mild visual-spatial issues, but dysexecutiveness is worse. It may look as a combination of quite serious SCT, mild to moderate ADD and some dyspractic traits. The term "NLD" is problematic.



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14 Dec 2014, 3:38 am

NVLD = NuVision LaserDisc

Some kind of HD videodisc format? :P



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14 Dec 2014, 4:16 am

There is large confusion because of the name NLD. I think that the "NLD diagnosis" has to be changed in many cases and people with many forms of "NLD" should be re-diagnosed as having PDD/autism with or without "dysexecutive disorders". I am good in learning, but have highly idiosyncratic mentality and dysexecutiveness. The name NLD would be ignorant and misleading in my case in my opinion. Someone who has just NLD would not have idiosyncratic, "obsessive" interests, bizarre emotionality and thinking, marked dyssemia, SCT, but will have apparent scholastic issues, significant problems with reading graphs, maps, clocks. It would be due to visual-spatial deficits.



Here
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16 Dec 2014, 7:34 pm

Here is a link describing the thinking behind 'Non-Verbal Learning Disorders.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_ ... g_disorder



nca14
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19 Dec 2014, 6:49 am

"Non-verbal learning disorders" is misleading term now. It should not be used to describe something which gives not only visual-spatial issues, but also social, emotional, (at least sometimes) also executive functioning and sensory problems. For me it is a new branch of PDD (a type of "soft", "elastic" autism) which is probably not related to Kanner's autism. It should be named adequately (as a pervasive developmental difference), not as learning or communication difficult or learning disability. "Overdevelopment" of verbal skills is also often a sign of this complex developmental difference. It is "truer" F84.5 from ICD-10, because its code (F84.5) is not so close to F84.0 (childhood autism) and F84.1 (atypical autism).

NLD is just visual-spatial deficit. It has not "Aspie-like" socio-emotional profile (no more apparent dyssemia, bizarre emotionality, special interests and rituals etc.).

Here is an article about the case of "NLD": https://s3.amazonaws.com/bankstreet_web ... d-2013.pdf



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19 Dec 2014, 4:44 pm

nca14 wrote:
I think that disorders with developmental SEB symptoms are PDDs. They make somebody "weird", socially inept and "obsessive".


From my perspective, NTs are obsessed with social acceptance and status.


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20 Dec 2014, 3:08 am

I think that a person with PDD may be also obsessed with it. Not all PDDs have to be "autistic".



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21 Dec 2014, 8:05 am

Problems in NLD are caused by visual-spatial deficit.

The term NLD is often used misleadingly to describe a sort of PDDs. That PDDs may be not related to Kanner's autism at all. It is mainly socio-emotional disorder which starts in early childhood. It should not be named as learning disorder. This condition belongs to the other type of autism spectrum for me. Executive functioning and sensory anomalies may be not uncommon. It often has well-developed verbal skills (I named it oververbal autism spectrum disorder). Visual-spatial problems may be often present. But social and emotional anomalies are the most characteristic. For me "Asperger syndrome" is a phenotype which may be caused by different factors. Not all of its forms have to be related to childhood autism. "Social NLD" is a form of Aspergism, not a type of NLD. NLD is just visual-spatial deficit which may be caused by different factors, also by "oververbal" PDDs. It is important to not name "oververbal PDD/autisticity" as a learning or communication disorder/disability, but as a pervasive developmental disorder and a form of autisticity.



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21 Dec 2014, 12:05 pm

I thought this was interesting from the wiki entry for NVLD.

Quote:
Ongoing debate surrounds the relationship between Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and NLD, as research on the condition is ongoing and procedures can differ from ASD research. Although people with ASDs often fit the criteria for NLD, a diagnosis of an ASD is often preferred. In this instance, some researchers assert that an ASD diagnosis is more clinically useful than an NLD diagnosis, and argue that NLD would be an example of excessive diagnostic splitting.


edit- I also thought this was interesting.

Quote:
Anxiety
People with NLD, more than many others, fear failure. Because of difficulties with nonverbal communication, people with NLD often worry excessively about offending other people. They may feel that they have to do too much at once, and then do not know where to start. This allows them to stagnate, and then do nothing. Sometimes they try to multitask and again end up doing nothing, which can lead to frustration. They may experience the world around them as a chaos, the actions that they must perform well and quickly creating a sense of helplessness. Clumsiness in performing tasks may be criticized by teachers or in the workplace, causing further fear of failure.


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21 Dec 2014, 2:02 pm

Interesting. Second quotation may fit to me to quite large degree, but I do not think that difficulties with nonverbal communication (dyssemia) are symptoms of NLD (some people with NLD may not experience social problems, at least in childhood. Problematic developmental dyssemia may be not caused by visual-spatial deficit. NLD is just visual-spatial deficit (which can also cause motoric problems) for me. Most NLDers may appear to be Aspies. Social, emotional, executive, sensory issues are symptoms of PDD when occur together. Most of "NLD" may appear to be a distinct family of PDDs which may be not related to childhood autism at all and be an other sort of autisticity.



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30 Dec 2014, 6:13 am

A text about NLD and AS:

http://johnsgarret.wordpress.com/tag/th ... uestion-1/

Some quotations:

I don’t recommend people putting a diagnose on themselves, but that might be the consequence of this bickering between neuropsychologists and psychologists/psychiatrists. The first group believe NLD is a genuine diagnose, while the latter calls it a learning profile. When I read about the autism spectrum, and especially asberger, and about NLD, and compare this to my own past experiences and how life is today, something feels wrong.

There are some differences between asberger and NLD, but it seems to me that there are more things that unite than separate us. That makes me wonder if NLD and AS are slightly different subtypes of the same diagnose. I believe both are forms of autism. I read on a Norwegian site that NLD’ers want friends while aspies don’t really care. (...)

I should agree with underlined text. They may have different etiology, however. I do not think that many cases of "NLD" are just learning disorders. "Nonverbal learning disorders" - this term can theoretically mean a lot of things... Maybe even ASD from DSM-V (there is no requrement of speech development problem). It is not so precise term for me. Many symptoms thought to be "NLD" symptoms are too "weird". There may be new branches of PDDs inside "NLD spectrum" which should be throw off from "just learning disorder" category and be classified not as LDs, but as PDDs (n one class with "classic" ASDs).



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30 Dec 2014, 12:23 pm

nca14 wrote:
A text about NLD and AS:

http://johnsgarret.wordpress.com/tag/th ... uestion-1/

Some quotations:

I don’t recommend people putting a diagnose on themselves, but that might be the consequence of this bickering between neuropsychologists and psychologists/psychiatrists. The first group believe NLD is a genuine diagnose, while the latter calls it a learning profile. When I read about the autism spectrum, and especially asberger, and about NLD, and compare this to my own past experiences and how life is today, something feels wrong.

There are some differences between asberger and NLD, but it seems to me that there are more things that unite than separate us. That makes me wonder if NLD and AS are slightly different subtypes of the same diagnose. I believe both are forms of autism. I read on a Norwegian site that NLD’ers want friends while aspies don’t really care. (...)

I should agree with underlined text. They may have different etiology, however. I do not think that many cases of "NLD" are just learning disorders. "Nonverbal learning disorders" - this term can theoretically mean a lot of things... Maybe even ASD from DSM-V (there is no requrement of speech development problem). It is not so precise term for me. Many symptoms thought to be "NLD" symptoms are too "weird". There may be new branches of PDDs inside "NLD spectrum" which should be throw off from "just learning disorder" category and be classified not as LDs, but as PDDs (n one class with "classic" ASDs).



To me that seems very reasonable that in a great many cases that would be correct.
The diagnosis splitting can get very confusing though. There is so much overlap and so many different labels.



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31 Dec 2014, 4:23 am

I think that the term "nonverbal learning disorder" is too general. Learning disorders may be verbal or nonverbal by definition. By saying somethin "nonverbal learning disorder", we do not precise what it is exactly.

Social communcation disorders should not be named "NLDs". The term NLD is misleading when it is used to it. Problems with social reciprocity and "obsessive" interests are even more obvious PDD traits.

NLD should not be associated with social communication problems (such as dyssemia - impairment of nonverbal commuciation or pragmatic issues) and "dysreciprocity" (such as one-sided contacts or limited, idiosyncratic social needs), unusual emotionality and thinking, abnormal interests and customs, "stimmablity". If someone presents them, then he/she has disorder from a type of autistic spectrum, not (just) a nonverbal learning disorder. "Weird" symptoms have to be throw off from NLD description.

NLD should be viewed as mainly cognitive problem, not socio-emotional one. There should be larger help for people affected by it. Even witout social communication disorders and "PDDic" pecularities NLD can be really serious problem.



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31 Dec 2014, 5:36 am

Fragments from Nonverbal Learning Disabilities in Children: Bridging the Gap Between Science and Practice (John M. Davis,Jessica Broitman):

https://books.google.pl/books?id=e5H7Wj ... 22&f=false

(I have a hope that the link to Google Books would not be broken)

It looks similar to me. NVLD is too broad term. Deficits in theory of mind or central coherence also are some forms of learning disorders in my opinion. "NLD syndrome" is too complex for me - it is described as something which impairs not only cognitive area, but also social, emotional, executive, sensory (SEES). So it is complex developmental disability, too complex to be named as "just specific developmental disability". It is too pervasive and impairs too many "systems". I named it as a form of "polymixia" (it mixes many developmental disorders in itself), due to the presence of SEES symptoms. Autism is another type of "polymixia".



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31 Dec 2014, 8:36 pm

NVLD and AS diagnosis here. I think NVLD is an accurate diagnosistic criteria, actually much more accurate and more able to actually be used in treatment (either by a psychiatrist or by self treatment/adaptation.) NVLD is a neurological diagnosis you can pretty easily determine if you have or don't have via IQ tests or testing, whereas Aspergers is a psychological diagnosis. IE, in my case with my NVLD, it was determined mainly via IQ testing, very high verbal IQ and very low nonverbal IQ all across the board, ie, math, everything to do visual spatial. With Aspergers, the diagnosis is much harder to do really, as it's not based off of any concrete litmus, just your own observations and other's observations, and then it even goes further with certain cultural differences, etc. With Aspergers for most people, many psychologists will have different opinions from eachother, one psychologist may say you have it, another may say you just have anxiety/etc.

I think "Aspergers" has many different causes and is a manifestation of certain neurological problems, but there's no one "Aspergers virus" or "Aspergers gene" or anything like that, that causes "Aspergers." Take anxiety for example. Anxiety almost always has some sort of causative agent, or underlying other medical or psychological things accompanying it (for example, depression, bi-polar disorder.) So if you have someone that is bipolar and also has anxiety, does he not have anxiety just because he's bipolar? No. So someone with NVLD can have Aspergers as their NVLD is manifesting with Asperger's symptoms. Thus they have NVLD as a neurological disorder, with Aspergers as a comorbid psychological abnormality, the same way bipolar can have anxiety as a comorbid. And not everyone with Aspergers has NVLD or vice versa, the same with bipolar and anxiety. I'd also like to note many people with Aspergers have an almost complete opposite neurological profile to NVLD and have strong visual spatial thinking.

Aspergers is a broad label of symptoms. I think the easiest comparison is influenza. When you get sniffles, a fever, coughing, maybe throwing up, headache, etc you think "I have the flu." But you probably don't. You probably have some other virus that's not influenza, the CDC says of all the samples submitted to them to test for flu, only 14% come back with any sort of influenza virus at all, and even during flu epidemics, the maximum figure for people who actually have influenza is only 60-70%. So the technical term used is "influenza like illness" because the treatment strategy and the symptoms are the same, even if the specific viral cause is different. So I think this comparison is apt for "autism" or "Aspergers." People should also take note of the fact that even brain injuries or strokes can make someone manifest with "Asperger" or NVLD like symptoms like loss of empathy or social inappropriateness, but it's not called Aspergers in them as it's not from birth.



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02 Jan 2015, 3:19 am

NVLD appears to be often associated with psychological, socio-emotional problems. The term NVLD has too broad "meaning" for me. Lack of thinking about eye contact or "one-sided" conversations about "obsessive" interests are signs of PDD/AS(D) for me. Not all people with NLD have to present social problems. For me the term "social NLD" is not acceptable. NLD should not mean something "autistic-like", psychiatric problem. NLD may be a symptom of PDD for me.