Aspergers and Criminal violence - Studies Reviewed

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ASPartOfMe
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02 Jun 2014, 4:37 am

http://www.medfriendly.com/aspergers-vi ... utism.html


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jrjones9933
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02 Jun 2014, 7:11 am

Too sensible to receive much attention from the press, but worth keeping a link if you expect to confront misconceptions about violence and Aspergers.



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02 Jun 2014, 8:08 am

Yeah, I think the time is coming to find a very secluded place, build a cabin, and disappear.

If I'm going to be stereotyped as Ted Kaczynski, no matter how hard I try to be social and no matter how little inclination to harm a living soul I happen to have in my head, I might as well live like him (at least in terms of isolation).

Screw it. I give up.


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daydreamer84
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02 Jun 2014, 12:39 pm

very interesting.



Al725
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02 Jun 2014, 2:22 pm

God I hate these studies. Why not compose a list of other mental issues these guys had? Furthermore, what about a list of all the NTs that commit acts of violence and compare it to the proportion of aspies that commit the same crimes. Furthermore, why not add in the proportion of aspies that never commit violence in their entire lives, and infact go out of their ways to avoid other people.
It would be nice if a number of intelligent individuals within our community could analyze these articles thouroughly so we can punch holes in their pathetic experiments and expose them to the public! :twisted:



jrjones9933
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02 Jun 2014, 2:31 pm

I think some of y'all didn't read all the way to the end. Just skip to the conclusions if you get tired of reading.

The section on case studies (reports about individual patients) suggest a link between Aspergers and violence, but the research on the population of people with ASD dispels that idea. Most of the violent people with Aspergers have comorbid conditions, and most people with Aspergers don't become violent.

I can't even fathom why someone would try to draw a conclusion about a population by studying one patient. Every time a psychologist does that, a statistics professor develops IBD. Have pity!



B19
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02 Jun 2014, 3:03 pm

One of the first things you are taught in science (methodology for dummies) is not to generalise findings from a single case or small/non-representative samples.

So why are these utterly flawed studies and conclusions tolerated? Because NT society wants scapegoats? Yes, probably. And the media is totally culpable of encouraging prejudice, stigma and ASD oppression for giving them print space.



B19
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02 Jun 2014, 3:05 pm

And NT statisticians, who know full well what a fraud the implications of these studies are, maintain total silence about them. Now why is that, do you think? Because they share the prejudices, perhaps???



jrjones9933
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02 Jun 2014, 3:16 pm

Yeah, yeah, they're all consciously out to get us. :roll:



B19
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02 Jun 2014, 3:19 pm

Studies prove that most violent criminals drank milk early in life!! ! So milk must cause violent crime!!

And most ASD people drank milk in early life!! !!



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02 Jun 2014, 3:37 pm

My personal opinion is that there is a certain chance of having comorbid to ASD psychopathic tendencies. I don't think the number is that high, but those autistic ppl clearly exist. Michael Fitzgerald writes about it in his book. He writes that this combination of autism and psychopathy is rare, but clearly exists. Also that normal autistic ppl have an extremely low risk of criminal behaviour, due to fact that they like to follow the roules, but interesting enough ppl with that combination even seem to have a higher risk than ppl with psychopathy alone.


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B19
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02 Jun 2014, 3:51 pm

Here's an example of singling out difference as a form of oppression: every day in the newspapers here, crime is reported. If it is committed by a Caucasian (white) offender, the fact that he/she is white isn't mentioned. If the offender belongs to any other race or ethniticity, it is always mentioned.

There is a parallel in that to this discussion (I believe).



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02 Jun 2014, 4:10 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
Yeah, I think the time is coming to find a very secluded place, build a cabin, and disappear.

If I'm going to be stereotyped as Ted Kaczynski, no matter how hard I try to be social and no matter how little inclination to harm a living soul I happen to have in my head, I might as well live like him (at least in terms of isolation).

Screw it. I give up.
It's your decision to make... I mean, if you want to hide--or if someone whose autism wasn't obvious wanted to stay "in the closet"--that's a personal choice.

But there are drawbacks. If we hide, then we leave behind all the people who can't hide--because they're poor, because they're young, because they're severely disabled, or because they've been beaten down so much they don't know they can defend themselves.

And if we hide, we have to hide something important to us from the rest of the world. Every friend we make is only a friend of the false persona we present to them. It gets stressful; it wears on us. Sooner or later, it's not worth it. Even an autistic introvert in a cabin in the woods will eventually need some human contact, if only to buy antibiotics or visit a library.

I am not denying that for some people, in some circumstances, the best choice is to hide and wait out the storm; but for others, hiding is just too costly.


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Raziel
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03 Jun 2014, 7:28 am

B19 wrote:
Here's an example of singling out difference as a form of oppression: every day in the newspapers here, crime is reported. If it is committed by a Caucasian (white) offender, the fact that he/she is white isn't mentioned. If the offender belongs to any other race or ethniticity, it is always mentioned.

There is a parallel in that to this discussion (I believe).


I think there is some truth to it, but I still believe in a connection between autism and violence and I'm convinced it's due to the fact that a small amount of autistic ppl do have psychopathic tendencies. Most autistic ppl do care about others, but there is clearly a certain amount of autistic ppl with antisocial tendencies, who is still in the minority, but higher than in the general population.

In a city next to mine in Germany, two teenage boys with Aspergers went to Prague and killed a taxi driver. They were 16 and 21 if I remember correctly. After the murder, they wanted to drive all over Europe to kill other ppl, but thankfully they were arrested right after the first murder because they lost some stuff in the car of the victim.

I would have heard of this incident anyway, because they lived close to my city and hardly any murders happen here, because here are just smaller cities. But I was astonished about the brutality of those two young ppl and sadly they weren't the first autistic murderers. I don't hear any other mental disorder/neuropsychiatric disorder mentioned that often in connection with murders, except psychopathy who is mentioned the most.


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03 Jun 2014, 8:38 am

Raziel, yes, there are autistic psychopaths--but think about the numbers here, and think about the effect autism has on things.

About 5% of the population can be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder: 1:20.
About 1% of the population can be diagnosed with autism: 1:100.

By pure chance, that means 5% of autistic people also have antisocial personality disoder--that is, .05% of the general population, or 1 in 2000.

The city I live in has a population of just under 150 thousand. By the numbers, there should be about 75 people here with both autism and antisocial personality disorder. And that's just in one city.

When a criminal has a psychological disorder, it usually ends up in the news. We don't have headlines like, "Man without Mental Health Problems Kills Girlfriend" (well, unles the guy is trying for the insanity defense and failing at it). But how often do we hear things like, "Autistic Man Kills Girlfriend"? If the murderer is autistic, the article will mention it. And, by the numbers, about one in a hundred murderers are. It makes for interesting press.

Also think about how autism affects the presentation of antisocial personality disorder. Autistic people aren't too good at lying, acting, or being particularly subtle. We suck at social skills. The average psychopath, if he's smart, will start to figure out how the world works, and will start to understand that in order to get by, he has to pretend to have compassion, and even help other people in order to get help in return. Successful psychopaths can go their whole lives and never hurt anyone too badly--they may even be better at being lawyers or CEOs than people who have normal amounts of compassion. But an autistic person with psychopathy doesn't have that ability--they can't hide their nature nearly as well. They may fall back on the strategy of just keeping quiet about their lack of compassion, which is usually the easiest way to deceive people if you are horrible at lying. They may become bitter and angry because people are not treating them the way they think they deserve to be treated. They are more likely to punch you in the face than try to ruin your reputation (though they may try for either). If you're autistic, it's just harder to hide anything, whether that's having eaten the last cookie or having killed your neighbor's cat.

What we see with autistic murderers in the news is a mix of things: Autistic murderers are more obviously unusual. The press likes to blame murders on mental conditions and will associate them with autism because it makes a good story: If a neurotypical man kills his girlfriend, there'll be a single article in the local news and then nothing. If an autistic man does the same thing, it may go national just because the autism makes it more interesting. There are, in any given population, enough people who simply happen to be both autistic and minus a conscience, that there are highly-visible examples (like your taxi-driver killers) for people to think about. When there's a highly-visible example of something, we get the feeling that it is more common--even though it may not be. (For example: We think of plane crashes as being very common because they are constantly in the news; we do not have the same feeling about car accidents, even though car accidents are far more likely to kill someone.) The only way to overcome this effect of the media reporting of only "interesting" stories is to use well-designed research to form the basis of our opinions.


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Raziel
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03 Jun 2014, 10:17 am

Well there is a high comorbidity rate of ADHD and antisocial PD. About 20% of all ppl with ADHD do fullfill the diagnostic criteria of antisocial PD. We all know there is a high comorbidity rate of ADHD and autism spectrum disorders. So considering this, there is a high probability that antisocial PD and ASD have a higher comorbidity rate than by pure chance.

What I noticed over the years is, that many autistic ppl do have huge problems with the fact that "not nice" mental disorders could be associated with autism. What I personally think bizarre, but quite understandable. When someone isn't antisocial he or she doesn't want to be associated with it.


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