Intuitive recognition of social position

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KimJ
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01 Apr 2007, 11:05 am

:lol: I remember accusing this guy of being a racist and his friend defended him by saying he wasn't because he had a degree in English Literature. The same person defended the movie Farenheit 9/11 (when I said it was low brow and didn't prove anything) by saying "it wasn't for 'us' but for uneducated people, those that hadn't gone to college".



SteveK
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01 Apr 2007, 12:07 pm

unnamed wrote:
I can't read subtle facial expressions or body language worth a toot, but I can somehow usually distinguish between genuinely friendly vibes and fake vibes. I think it's extremely amusing that many NTs in my neighborhood will avoid a checkout line in which the cashier is an immigrant with a heavy accent, and yet I go out of my way to get in their line because they're usually so friendly and patient! I spent a wonderful 2 years as a volunteer, teaching English as a Second Language to Latino/a immigrants in my community. That was the first time in my life I'd ever felt welcomed, accepted, and appreciated by any group of people. I've never had a notion of class distinction anyway, and I never felt any kind of cultural or socio-economic barriers between us. It was good for me to get up in front of a group and do my best to help them without giving way to my social paranoia and fear that someone would think I was "stupid." The pivotal moment came early in the first semester. I was staring right at a taped-up sign with an arrow pointing down that said "use these wipes to erase the board," and I kept saying "where is the eraser?" These folks spoke very little English, but they still figured out what was going on, and they all just busted out laughing. I felt that old terror knot up in my stomach, but when I got up the nerve to look out at them, I saw by the looks on their faces that they were just laughing because it was funny, not because they were passing judgement on me (like someone of a higher "class" probably would have done). Those people taught me the difference between social "rank" and real class.


Ironically, being a snob is a sign of LOW class!



SteveK
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01 Apr 2007, 12:18 pm

KimJ wrote:
:lol: I remember accusing this guy of being a racist and his friend defended him by saying he wasn't because he had a degree in English Literature. The same person defended the movie Farenheit 9/11 (when I said it was low brow and didn't prove anything) by saying "it wasn't for 'us' but for uneducated people, those that hadn't gone to college".


WOW! They think they are educated because they went to college? So I guess they aren't educated, because the first teacher wasn't! Gee, what do they do now?

And OK! I get it! He is educated, so he can't be a racist! So what about that guy that was so instrumental in making the transistor? If he wasn't educated, he certainly did a lot, and we better pull electronics out of the schools since it must be a SCAM! I mean if an UNEDUCATED person taught the educators, then what can the educators teach? What is the point? BUT, if he IS educated, that blows the racism theory out of the water, because he was a recognized racist! GEE, what a conundrum!

Besides, Michael Moore is pretty low class himself. He tries to make specious arguments, and then runs off on a seemingly only slightly off topic tangent to engender emotions to try and drown out any attempt to reason through the primary argument. I figure he is just copying actions once formulated, because I don't credit him with enough intelligence to figure that stuff out.

Steve



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01 Apr 2007, 12:41 pm

Haha!! I love it when people are naive enough to believe that education equals intelligence!! I once worked with a guy who had an English lit degree, and we were one of very few people at our job who'd finished college. For some reason, he was under the impression that this made us more intelligent than our co-workers, and that we should automatically be friends. He invited me and my husband to come over for a "small get-together Saturday night to discuss books and current events, and just enjoy some intelligent conversation." I replied that, after a hellish week at work, all I wanted to do on Saturday night was drink tequila and tell fart jokes. That shut him up good.



KimJ
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01 Apr 2007, 12:47 pm

My parents get confused too. I remember way back my parents suggesting I meet this guy because "we were both intellectuals". They said he was such because he had gone to college and was a loan officer. :lol: My husband dropped out of college because he decided they weren't teaching him anything, you wouldn't believe how many people ask if he's going back to finish. Like he failed for leaving.



SteveK
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01 Apr 2007, 12:58 pm

KimJ wrote:
My parents get confused too. I remember way back my parents suggesting I meet this guy because "we were both intellectuals". They said he was such because he had gone to college and was a loan officer. :lol: My husband dropped out of college because he decided they weren't teaching him anything, you wouldn't believe how many people ask if he's going back to finish. Like he failed for leaving.


WOW, A LOAN OFFICER! A VERY intellectual job!! !!(sarc) How far is that above teller?

Steve



KimJ
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01 Apr 2007, 1:00 pm

Quote:
How far is that above teller?


I think a name plate on their own desk and a window that partitions the bank into its proper classifications.



Jacob_Landshire
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01 Apr 2007, 3:26 pm

About BA degrees

Up until about 50 years ago only ten to fifteen percent of the population was qualified to attend college. So at the time a BA could be a rough indication of what class a person was in. That has changed, especially in the last 20 years. I have seen statistics showing that nearly half of all high school graduates go on to college. This recent boom in BA degrees isn't the result of a smarter population. It's the result of expanding the institution through the widespread availability of student loans and lower academic standards. Nowadays a college education is almost no indicator of class or even intelligence.


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02 Apr 2007, 6:49 am

Anyone can be born to money. Most people can be educated. Niether confers much ability.

Culture and breeding were the old measures. A cultured person understood the world in which they lived.

Those who ground and mixed animal feed, forged metal, dug wells, built fence, barns, were each the top of their field. All depended on the combined knowledge of all. The measure of any person was doing what they did well. They were the respectable folk.

Being cultured was knowing the world in which you lived. It was a common acceptance that allowed life to continue.

Breeding was improving culture. The favored felt obligated to spread knowledge. Ben Franklin and Poor Richard, brought knowledge and humor to many isolated farms, where even knowing how to read, they had nothing to read. Most of the writtings of Thomas Jefferson are on farming, brickmaking, blacksmith, book binding, a study of the useful arts. Franklin considered his greatest work the leather apron group, when tradesmen gathered to improve their skills.

Concepts of wealth and power come later, the railroad trusts, steel trusts, making war on the economy for private gain. The factory system reduced craftsmen to labors, work so specialized they were but a machine operator. It only lasted a few generations, but that and two world wars destroyed the culture. Both culture and breeding were now to serve capital, which controlled government.

That is about where I came in, my family rebel small business. Everyone else worked for the machine.

The machine existed for profit, and would do anything. Everything was to serve the machine. Education is not knowledge, just training for the machine, the machine kept wages down by saying the blacks will get your jobs. The commies will come and marry your daughters.

Now the machine has relocated the factories to the commies, and you can work in Walmart selling commie goods. The culture is people doing anything to make the interest payments on a life they were sold which has no income potential. If I was a million in debt, those assets would be making something, it would not be a plywood box, with a concrete pond, and two cars that cost a fortune to keep up.

Wage slaves in perpetual debt bondage. Most of them are the war babies, they face retirement, many are dieing. The next generation down, birth control and abortion babies, is very small, and never made enough to buy into the American Dream. The next down from them is also small, and two of them cannot make the rent on an apartment. The war babies have no one to sell to, and when the downturn comes, their actual net worth will vanish. Taxes and utilities on a McMansion run $2000 a month, adjustable rates are kicking in, soon the whole country will look like New Orleans.

There is a revival of culture, people are beginning to understand that the well being of everyone has to do with the well being of everyone. kids should get a good education, old folks should live somewhere and eat.
the basics of culture have been ignored by the machine. Food, shelter, education, health care, retirement, were the reason to spend your life in the factory of another. In other places those things come first.

The money machine is going global, leaving here. Those who thought they were money class players are being left holding nothing but debt. Gold is high because dollars are near worthless. Paper money can have the value removed. The looting of America is almost done.

China and the Saudis hold US Treasury Bonds in the Trillions, so when we go bankrupt, they will have a first claim on the assets. We did have the best farmland on earth. They will have a right to send in security forces to protect their assets.

Look at what has happened while everyone was discussing race, political systems, gender issues. and Hollywood. I read that Iraq has cost more than World War II.

Breeding means looking out for the best interests of us all. Pre-literate tribes have shown better sense.



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02 Apr 2007, 7:44 am

Brilliant, Inventor!! You're a good writer.



Kaleido
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02 Apr 2007, 8:54 am

maldoror wrote:
I think somewhere I remember reading a passing remark about our lack of intuitive understanding of social position. It's one of the more confusing aspects of life for me, personally.

Does anyone else feel this confused when they look at the world?


Yes, I find hierarchies and boundaries difficult, I can see the extremes more than the middle bit and although I have formed a theoretical picture in my mind, when it comes to social interaction and being in the right position and the right place at, on or behind or whatever it is with boundaries, I don't get it. I am always being pulled up about the boundary thing, mostly for being too friendly or familiar. Very hard and it gets on my nerves because its all illogical anyway. :?