Does being left wing go hand in hand with Asperger's?

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marshall
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21 Nov 2015, 1:32 am

wilburforce wrote:
I don't understand it either. I think a lot of it is based on a misunderstanding of evolutionary biology--simple-minded people think selfishness is wise on an animalistic level because they don't understand the difference between a lone predator in the wild fending for themselves and a social species that lives in groups and therefore requires it's members to have consideration for one another as part of the functioning of that group. They think it is smart for people to live (philosophically, at least) like jungle cats or something, rather than the social species that we are that rely on each other for survival. It's a kind of ignorance.

That or they think voluntary charity works. It really doesn't work very well. Some know it doesn't work but don't care. Being able to keep their money is more important than people literally dying or suffering immensely. They're usually privileged and live in a bubble insulated from illness or suffering. They haven't been f****d over completely. They haven't experienced mental or physical suffering to the degree they are close to killing themselves. They're just lucky and insulated. They also have a big ego usually and think they are "self made" when they really aren't. Nobody is "self made" unless they go out and live off the land. To be "self made" you have to cut yourself off from society completely. That's the only way to avoid anyone helping you ever.



corroonb
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21 Nov 2015, 3:05 am

Nobody is self-reliant. We all rely on others. Those others might be family, friends, government agencies, teachers or doctors. The idea that it's even possible to be some self-made objectivist ubermensch is childish. We all benefit from handouts whether explicit or implicit. Roads, schools, parental care, welfare, pensions, tax credits. There is such a thing as society.



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21 Nov 2015, 3:14 am

luan78zao wrote:
Although I wouldn't have been able to express it, even as a kid I thought that all interactions among adults should be voluntary. That people in groups don't acquire rights they lacked as individuals. That no individual or group ought to be sacrificed in the name of some alleged "greater good."

So … no.



^This.


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21 Nov 2015, 5:40 am

Hi, I am communist and monotheist. Also an engineer. However random it might seems my view on god is that of einsteins.



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21 Nov 2015, 9:28 am

luan78zao wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Basically you don't understand left wing politics.


Thank you. That's the nicest compliment I've ever received here. 8)

After a degree in history, travel, life experience, personal acquaintance with survivors of Stalin, Mao, and Kim, etc etc, I certainly understand the practice. And I can't listen to a politician speaking without being exposed to the theory. What I've never understood is the emotional appeal. Guess I've never had the urge to boss people around.

You really don't understand... Stalin and Mao were extremists and are in no way representative of liberals or the left. The left is more willing that the right to defend the rights of peoples and minority, not sacrificing them in the name of "greater good"; libertarians been there with the right, as they give more importance to so-called "economic freedom" that any individual rights issues (Except for gun rights, which they rise as a divine right.), like approving the Pinochet regime in Chile. For libertarians dictatorship is fine as long the private industry can deny worker rights and that the wealthy don't pay tax. The right will cry as much as they want about how taxation go against their rights, nothing will change the true that any nation able to guarantee the rights of it's citizens need taxation and the mathematical true that without wealth redistribution a too large part of the money will fall in the hands of a wealthy few as soon as money exchange is done; exchange been the whole point of money.



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21 Nov 2015, 9:40 am

Fnord wrote:
I do not believe in "Black Priviledge", "Female Priviledge", "Male Priviledge", "White Priviledge" or any other "Priviledge" that is based on a person's culture, disability, ethnicity, gender orientation, religion, sex, or skin color.

I believe that people should take responsibility for their own lives, and stop blaming their own stupid mistakes on their parents, their teachers, their bosses, the police, the legal system, and society in general.

I believe that people should be held accountable for their own words and actions, and not use their culture, disability, ethnicity, gender orientation, religion, sex, or skin color as an excuse for causing trouble or terrorizing others.

Nope! Still not a liberal!

:lol:


This and your first post Fnord is kinda offensive , I agree with what you are saying to a degree and I do agree that personal responsibility is important but lumping disability in those categories I don't agree with. I would be homeless if I didn't draw disability and probably dead. Some people have legitimate problems working due to disabilities and need some extra help. Its fair cause when I worked I paid into social security, would you expect someone in a wheelchair to be able to walk up stairs or someone without arms to steer a car? Or are they using their disability as an excuse?



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21 Nov 2015, 11:11 am

marshall wrote:
Right wing people would prefer people who have a disability or health issue and little money suffer immensely or kill themselves. I don't see why anyone on the spectrum would be right wing. I don't see how anyone with compassion could be right wing.
No, most of us would rather see people in real need get help locally, from family, friends, and religious institutions (that's why we put money in the collection plates, right?). We would rather not be taxed to support able-bodied people whose alleged needs are the direct result of their own lack of initiative in schools and workplaces - dropouts and bums are a drain on society, sucking up resources that real needy people deserve instead.

I don't mean to be offensive. I have been homeless, so I know exactly what it is like from first-hand experience. The difference being that I was determined to not remain homeless, but to become a home-owning citizen. It helped that I did not know then about having an ASD, and how it is supposed to have made me unemployable. Instead, I took every job offer that came my way, no matter how menial.

Did you ever de-tassle cornstalks while hanging off the side of a moving farm trailer in the hot sun for ten hours a day? Did you ever work as a night janitor or a night watchman while also working construction during the day? Did you ever work for a septic-tank service? Did you ever work at a conveyor belt, separating plastics, paper, glass, and metals from all of the dirty diapers and used syringes that people carelessly throw into the garbage?

It takes personal effort to get out of poverty, but only if you are both willing and able. We should help the disabled as much as possible; but for the rest, they're on their own.


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Last edited by Fnord on 21 Nov 2015, 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

dcj123
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21 Nov 2015, 11:23 am

Fnord wrote:
marshall wrote:
Right wing people would prefer people who have a disability or health issue and little money suffer immensely or kill themselves. I don't see why anyone on the spectrum would be right wing. I don't see how anyone with compassion could be right wing.
No, most of us would rather see people in real need get help locally, from family, friends, and religious institutions (that's why we put money in the collection plates, right?). We would rather not be taxed to support able-bodied people whose alleged needs are the direct result of their own lack of initiative in schools and workplaces - dropouts and bums are a drain on society, sucking up resources that real needy people deserve instead.


I tried hard in school and my places of enployment and I am neither a dropout , bum or drain on society. Also getting help locally isn't practical in all cases, what of those that come from abusive families or those whose bad social skills gets them expelled from religious institutions?

Wow, I am happy I am a bit of a libreal. I am out, I am not going argue this, politics and religion aren't worth fighting for.



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21 Nov 2015, 11:29 am

dcj123 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
marshall wrote:
Right wing people would prefer people who have a disability or health issue and little money suffer immensely or kill themselves. I don't see why anyone on the spectrum would be right wing. I don't see how anyone with compassion could be right wing.
No, most of us would rather see people in real need get help locally, from family, friends, and religious institutions (that's why we put money in the collection plates, right?). We would rather not be taxed to support able-bodied people whose alleged needs are the direct result of their own lack of initiative in schools and workplaces - dropouts and bums are a drain on society, sucking up resources that real needy people deserve instead.
I tried hard in school and my places of enployment and I am neither a dropout , bum or drain on society. Also getting help locally isn't practical in all cases, what of those that come from abusive families or those whose bad social skills gets them expelled from religious institutions? Wow, I am happy I am a bit of a libreal. I am out, I am not going argue this, politics and religion aren't worth fighting for.
You, at least, are trying to make something of yourself. For that, I salute you! :salut:


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21 Nov 2015, 12:30 pm

There is no necessary link between our neurology and political ideology. Political ideology is a product of free thinking and or enculturation.



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21 Nov 2015, 1:16 pm

I don't know. I just feel the same as the majority of the people I talk to. Like with this ISIS crisis, me and everybody I have spoken to about it so far have been against the refugees coming to the UK. It's not because they are from the middle east. It's because there are homeless people on the streets here, and housing is being offered to the refugees. It's like the British are being pushed aside, which is racist against us because we feel discriminated for being British. But we all must keep our mouths shut otherwise we will be the racist ones. But we are not racist. We just want our rights back, in our own country.

Sorry, I don't even know if that was anything to do with this thread but I'm just so angry because of what my future holds.


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21 Nov 2015, 4:06 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I don't know. I just feel the same as the majority of the people I talk to. Like with this ISIS crisis, me and everybody I have spoken to about it so far have been against the refugees coming to the UK. It's not because they are from the middle east. It's because there are homeless people on the streets here, and housing is being offered to the refugees. ...
There. That's it. Why take in refugees while homeless people in this country are already being ignored?

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21 Nov 2015, 9:22 pm

corroonb wrote:
Nobody is self-reliant. We all rely on others. Those others might be family, friends, government agencies, teachers or doctors. The idea that it's even possible to be some self-made objectivist ubermensch is childish. We all benefit from handouts whether explicit or implicit. Roads, schools, parental care, welfare, pensions, tax credits. There is such a thing as society.


It's funny how many super wealthy people espouse self-reliance but never had to work hard in their entire lives...also give their kids a free ride on the o'l gravy train...

Economic privilege is often passed down...



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21 Nov 2015, 9:56 pm

yelekam wrote:
There is no necessary link between our neurology and political ideology. Political ideology is a product of free thinking and or enculturation.

You might want to Google,
neurological characteristics conservatives

Especially when considering the extremes (ie liberal progressives vs religious conservatives), they actually do think differently, perceive differently, have different neurological reactions to perceived threats, problem solve differently, etc. etc...


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marshall
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21 Nov 2015, 10:55 pm

Fnord wrote:
marshall wrote:
Right wing people would prefer people who have a disability or health issue and little money suffer immensely or kill themselves. I don't see why anyone on the spectrum would be right wing. I don't see how anyone with compassion could be right wing.
No, most of us would rather see people in real need get help locally, from family, friends, and religious institutions (that's why we put money in the collection plates, right?).

Not everyone has family and friends and religious charities are far from adequate. Religious charities can also discriminate. What the government does now in terms of healthcare is largely inadequate.

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We would rather not be taxed to support able-bodied people whose alleged needs are the direct result of their own lack of initiative in schools and workplaces - dropouts and bums are a drain on society, sucking up resources that real needy people deserve instead.

"bums and dropouts" are off topic. I AM talking about REAL needy people. There are people in this country who's needs are not being met. People are placed under horrible stress. Conservatives do not want to help real needy people. You can see it in their policies regarding healthcare. Or do you believe poor people deserve to suffer and/or die because you deem them unworthy. :roll: Do you realize that SOMEONE has to do those minimum wage jobs? Those jobs would still exist even if EVERYONE obtained engineering degrees. Do you realize some people are unable to thrive in the workplace despite high intelligence and a good academic record? Your gross simplifications are dangerous and morally bankrupt.

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I don't mean to be offensive. I have been homeless, so I know exactly what it is like from first-hand experience. The difference being that I was determined to not remain homeless, but to become a home-owning citizen. It helped that I did not know then about having an ASD, and how it is supposed to have made me unemployable. Instead, I took every job offer that came my way, no matter how menial.

Not everyone is exactly the f*****g same as you. Just because you have been homeless doesn't mean you have a clue what it's like to be in someone else's shoes. Also ASD is an extremely BROAD diagnosis. We're not all f*****g identical to YOU. Believe it or not most people would prefer to work.

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Did you ever de-tassle cornstalks while hanging off the side of a moving farm trailer in the hot sun for ten hours a day? Did you ever work as a night janitor or a night watchman while also working construction during the day? Did you ever work for a septic-tank service? Did you ever work at a conveyor belt, separating plastics, paper, glass, and metals from all of the dirty diapers and used syringes that people carelessly throw into the garbage?

It takes personal effort to get out of poverty, but only if you are both willing and able. We should help the disabled as much as possible; but for the rest, they're on their own.

You personally get to decide what you consider disabled. :roll: Sorry. That's not how it works. We have trained doctors decide for a reason. Not dumb bigots with attitudes. Go rot somewhere.



luan78zao
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22 Nov 2015, 2:07 am

Tollorin wrote:
Stalin and Mao were extremists


Extreme proponents of … what? Of the same principles which "moderate" leftists mouth every day. Both were showered, in their time, with admiration from Western leftists, even after the reports of mass killings began coming in.

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and are in no way representative of liberals


I am a liberal (from Latin liber, freedom). Statists have no right to use the term.

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The left is more willing that the right to defend the rights of peoples and minority, not sacrificing them in the name of "greater good"


The left, everywhere, is all about collective or group "rights," whose function is to nullify individual rights. The only people talking about individual rights nowadays are libertarians and classical liberals.

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libertarians been there with the right, as they give more importance to so-called "economic freedom" that any individual rights issues


The right to property is an essential individual right. A person who labors, but has no claim to his product, is a slave. And just try practicing freedom of speech, or the press, if the State owns all the venues for speaking and all the presses.

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For libertarians dictatorship is fine


'For Alcoholics Anonymous, binge drinking is fine'

'For vegans, eating a big juicy steak is fine'

'For pacifists, retaliation with overwhelming force is fine'

I don't self-identify as libertarian … but I can't get past this, because it's utter gibberish.


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