The Line Between Non-Autism and Autism

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I love the schism in my mind between self-affirmation and self-doubt.

So Im exploring everything and can see how I might slot in, some of the ways in which Im affected by Autism traits. I can see how I was different to other kids.

But when I try to discuss some of the things that affected me and still affect me to this day, people just say it's normal childhood and it's just who you are.

So for example, I used to be very shy, even of my grandparents. They say that I was a shy child, and children are quite usually shy.

Ok, but I was a fussy eater and there were some foods I hated the texture. But fussy eating is part of childhood!

I hated loud noise - I went to a disco and while all the other kids were having a great time, I was panicking the furthest away I could possibly be, stressed out about going too close. The answer - kids hate certain things, and it's not uncommon.

Ok, well how about when a friend sends me a text message and signs it with an x and I think they might be coming on to me and I have a look at the context of the friendship? That's normal as well!

My need to be in control? That's normal too! Everyone needs to be in control.

My problem not knowing what to say to people in conversation, problems approaching people if they're in groups, problems in group discussions, problems giving speeches where I just start shaking with anxiety. They say Im normal, Im just very shy!

Loads of fears, risk averse, fear of heights, problems with stairs, fear of the dark... Normal normal normal.

I realised I have a hard time going into a new place to meet someone. Im not sure where to sit, what to order, what to do, will the other person turn up? I just sit there feeling uncomfortable until everyone else turns up. If I manage to get in at all. That's just confidence! You need to try!

I need to be on time otherwise Im stressing. So does everyone else!

I became obsessive about Knight Rider and was really upset/distressed if I couldn't watch it. I pretended to be KITT. I also became obsessive about buses and played Buses with friends. You were just a child. Children do things like that!

I used to sniff other kids bottoms when I was seven pretending that I was a dog and greeting others. You were a child. Children do funny things.

Being naive and trusting and taking things at face value? But children do that! They don't know any better.



Where do you draw the line between Autism and Non-Autism?

The problem for me is that I've had loads of these issues over the years and I feel like I've been held back. Im happy enough accepting that these things affect me and actually just accepting who I am. The problem is whether it is neurological, like Aspergers/Autism, or whether it is Psychology.

If it is psychology, presumably, I can undertake CBT and sort it out! That's why a diagnosis is important for me. If it's psychology, I have no excuse.

If it's neurological, I have an explanation, and I don't need to beat myself up, I can embrace myself and accept that I am different with different needs.

So where do you draw the line?

I think this is a tough question. I am curious what other people will say.

But what comes to mind is what did the other kids think?
Were you excluded from the social group, or did the other kids think you were normal like them?
Adults will miss the oddness because, to them, all kids are odd.
But kids who see an odd kid will ostracize that kid.
You also have to ask people who have knowledge of raising kids at different ages. Some of the things you mentioned *are* normal at certain ages, but a kid is expected to outgrow them by a certain time.

I don't think I was excluded as such, or thought abnormal in anyway shape or form. But I don't think I was specifically included. I guess infant and junior school (pre-11 years old) was better, because I think most socialisation was done by parents introducing me to other kids.

I made no effort really, and didn't do the things that the other kids around me enjoyed - like keeping away from the dance floor, or at a McDonalds birthday when they would lock the kids in the freezer in the dark for a couple of seconds, I wouldn't go anywhere near it, despite hearing everyone elses joy.

I did mostly keep to myself, feet on the floor, didn't do very much. I don't think I was ostracized, I don't think I was victimised or bullied, but I certainly didn't connect with people as much as others. I still don't.

Shyness probably 4 to 10. Fussy eater, 4 to 35? Loud noise, 4 to 21ish? Text message meaning 18+. Need for control - life. Not knowing what to say in conversation - 30+ - though probably there a lot longer. I certainly didn't have in depth conversations. Fears - for life. On time - life. Obsessions - life. Sniffing bottoms and trying to gross people out - 7+ (any response is a good response - may as well be the life of the party - seemed as good a way as any to connect to people). Naive and trusting, life. People pleasing, life.

Good idea though - I might have a chat with a few trusted people I know who were parents and see what they say.

Everybody has some of the Autistic traits but one has to have most of the core traits consistantly, and intensely and have them from age 2 or earlier to be Autistic. The difficulty is in defining what is most, consistent and intensity. Another difficulty is that the core traits can present differently.

This is simple enough right? The difference is that NT people can do something about it. For the most part. They grow out of the behaviours you summed up (for the most part). Not that autistic people can't do this. But it depends on which end of the spectrum you are on. In the end I think we all draw this line for ourselves. Which isn't easy, because you always end up asking yourself "Why can't I do this or that or why do I act like this - because of my autism or my character?". It gets worse when people try to decide this for you. Which they shouldn't, only you can decide who you are and what you're capable of.

As someone trying to figure out if he's autistic, I'm quite interested myself.

At least with me (keep in mind I'm not diagnosed), I've always "felt" different and others have always seemed to treat me like I am. I find it difficult to connect with people and certain things that come naturally to others don't come naturally to me.

Autistic traits are on a spectrum. The line that is drawn is an arbitrary one drawn by clinicians to distinguish between those that have a significant problem and those that don't.

The diagnostic criteria specify the areas in which one must have difficulties and the level of severity in these areas. Someone who has problems in just one area is not considered to be autistic. Someone with very minor problems in these areas will not be considered to be autistic.

The idea is that these traits are found in the normal population, but only some people have enough of them and to enough of a degree in order to cause disabilities.

Just like some people can have OCD-like traits, but not be considered to have a disorder because they don't cause impairment in daily functioning.

There is actually now something called social communication disorder, which is diagnosed in those who only have problems with social functioning.

As to whether or not you have autism, what your family and friends think really has nothing to do with it. It seems a lot of people's families tend to disregard their signs of autism for various reasons.

The best way to truly know is to research it yourself and try to truthfully assess your symptoms. If you believe you may have autism after that, you can then take this information and get an evaluation.

^ Absolutely. I agree with all of this.

I recommend taking the RAADS-R as well. It's a good self-measuring tool. I am "very neurotypical" and a sociologist who studies autistic adults from a minority standpoint. I have my own RAADS-R scores saved and can post those here, or send them to you for comparison if you like. I find that helps sometimes if you have trouble understanding the interpretation part of the test.

I also want to say that I have NEVER wondered if I myself were autistic. Most neurotypical people don't wonder that. It's like a person of one race wondering if they are actually another race. It just doesn't happen unless that person has a good reason.

Thats easy, autism is a disability. ANYONE can be socially awkward, have sensory sensitivity and 'obsessions' but its when its on a disabling level that the diagnoses matters.

ANYONE can be an introvert who isn't very social savvy and dislikes crowds, its people who have issues with eye contact, behaving appropriately in social settings, reading body language AND acting accordingly and reciprocating body language, being able to communicate wants and needs, thats when it warrants a autism diagnoses.

think of your symptoms, do they interfere with your ability to function on a daily basis? can you make relationships and hold them down? It doesn't count if you just dont want relationships, if a diagnoses counted on the WANT of relationships then the diagnoses statistics would be one in two. When you TRY and make relationships how does it work out? are you overwhelmed in social settings resulting in meltdowns and shutdowns?

I've done the tests. I've got a normal SQ, a normal FQ, a low EQ of 22, AQ of 41, and I can't remember if it was RAADS-R or RDOS, anyhow, one of them reported mixed traits, and the other said 140.

Define impairment in daily functioning.

I work, I eat, I drink, I sleep, I go to pubs, I have friends, I have fun. I function. That's not living. Im distressed somewhat because Im not living the life I feel like I should be living. I can't give a speech, I have problems connecting to people. I feel like I've been living a life to make everyone else happy, suppressing my own needs and wants. I don't know who I am anymore. I get anxiety and depression on a cyclical basis that is never enough to go over borderline so I can never get any help. I fear things so much that I don't push myself. It's been like a pressure cooker building over time. On New Years Eve I realised that deep down Im not happy and I need to make some big life changes. I need to be in control. I need to figure out the source for all this.

I hate my job, I hate the things I actually do to have fun. I can't contribute to group discussions, have problems talking to people. I want to talk to people, but I don't know how to approach them unless they approach me. I look at what others do trying to see how other people function. I've had a very limited social experience that is simply not as sophisticated as the new social circle Im in. Im useless at confrontation and conflict. Do all these things stop me from eating and working? No. But whatever it is, it's holding me back. Im not living to my full potential. I punch myself when Im depressed. I've been in the same job for over a decade, I still lie with my parents, have no girlfriend, can't approach someone I am interested in. My friends try and drag me to the dance floor and I just slink down in my chair.

Put it like this, I've put together an 8 page summary document, including how I have a friendship spreadsheet to tell if people are friends or not. So Im just scratching the surface here.

Im on the cusp of doing something stupid like quitting my work, or just getting in my car and driving as far away as I can, or becoming a monk. I want help before Im destroyed by this. I've had enough of my life - but in a good way. I feel like I've woken up and Im starting to acknowledge the real me.

But I need to know what Im dealing with. If it's psychological, I can get CBT. If it's an ASD issue, I can get answers which make sense. So for example with group discussions - if it's just a confidence issue, I might be able to get some CBT and work with it and get over my anxiety. If it's ASD, I might be able to reach out to others and either get people to accomodate my uniqueness, or actually come off the group if it's causing anxiety and is incompatible with me.

You know the answer, if you just do XYZ often enough, you'll get over the anxiety of it. That's not necessarily true is it with ASD is it?

I don't think that's necessarily true with any kind of psychological problem. There is no sure fix.

Yes, ASD is a developmental disorder, not a mental illness, but that doesn't mean that getting help is useless. People can live fulfilling lives with ASD. It depends on the individual.

And there are people with severe anxiety that may be more impaired with functioning than another person who has ASD, and who may be resistant to treatments for whatever reason, and never manage to feel better.

You should read up on BAP (Broad Autism Phenotype).

That might answer some of your questions.

I function fairly well--have a job, a wife, etc. I don't speak well in front of crowds, though. I've had trouble with empathy most of my life. I'm just a clerk--rather than something much more (if I wasn't on the Spectrum, I feel I would have done better). I have a couple of weird stims (which I can control--but they come up suddenly; sometimes, I can't control where they "come from."

There is something "blocking" me from being a professional person--and that something, I feel, has something to do with being on the Spectrum.

I didn't speak until age 5 1/2. Until that point, pretty much, I exhibited classic/Kanner-type autistic symptoms. After I spoke, I came across as Aspergian.

Now theres a difference between hating your job and not being able to work BECAUSE OF it. (disclaimer: forgive me if i missed some key points my reading is very poor)

now, i can only explain this using examples. "

i have panic attacks whenever i go to school, it got so bad that i had to drop out. THATS A DISORDER as opposed to one of my peers who hates school and goes anyway OR just doesnt care and drops out.

the panic attacks started at the beginning of the school year, because of the schedule change i couldnt adapt and i had continuous panic attacks and prevented me from going to school.

not everyone with autism has this problem, i have many friends all over the spectrum who have graduated, however the difference between me and them is i am living on my own and it was up to ME to bring myself to school, all my friends parents pushed them to go to school. this is called REQUIRING SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT.

do you require support and can you ask for help when you need it; this is a big factor in diagnosing disabilities.

Another example, my close friend has PDD-NOS, he has the ability to make and keep friends, however, he was scammed recently, he wasn't able to recognize that someone was trying to get his money, luckily his parents stepped in and blocked his bank account.

see what i mean? Many people with High Functioning Autism have a lot of support from loved ones to go to school and get a job, and frankly i have NO CLUE how anyone with autism can get a job without support, it boggles my mind but never the less.

so think, do you have support that keeps you at work?

When you said I have friends, fun, go to pubs, work and then you said thats not living, what do you mean? what would you rather be doing?

Hi ZombieBride,

I like you. You're a nice person. I feel a bit worried about you. You have potential.

How come you are living on your own? It doesn't seem like it suits you. I wish you could go back to school and graduate. Do they have home schooling in your area?

This thread sounds like it is degenerating into one of those "if you're not disabled enough for it to be obvious to everyone in the world, you must not be autistic" arguments.

The problem is that it is hard to know when someone is at the higher end of the spectrum. And if it is indeed a spectrum, than some will be at the edge of autistic/not autistic. This is like arguing where the tide line is at the beach. If it's currently low tide, I guess the high tide mark doesn't count because the sand is no longer wet. Give me a break.

Some people at the higher end of the spectrum are doing OK because they have been able to learn how to get through life. Sometimes that requires relying on people. Sometimes that is because of picking up some social skills they have memorized (even if it's in one's head, isn't it still SUPPORT?) Sometimes it is because they have learned a lot of self-care techniques through trial and error and have designed their adult life in such a fashion as to allow for time to recover from overstimulation, or even prevent it. Sometimes it is because they are highly skilled in a particular field that *just happens* to not require a whole lot of social savvy and are good enough at it to get work. Sometimes, it is because they have learned how to just push through anxiety and depression because that was the only option other than suicide.

Just like physical muscles get stronger with exercise, so do the mental and emotional muscles. If someone has worked hard on overcoming their obstacles so that they no longer need support, does that mean they never had a problem? Does someone with a prosthetic leg that learned how to walk without support no longer have a prosthetic leg???

Really all that defines whether someone is autistic or not is whether they meet the diagnostic criteria according to the clinician doing the evaluation. The person needs to be experienced enough in order to "catch" those that are higher on the spectrum who may be "passing" for neurotypical.

The clinician will use the diagnostic criteria and different tests to decide whether that diagnosis fits the person.

People who are not trained or experienced in diagnosing autism may very well miss the signs. And there are autistic people who do manage to be successful and/or "pass" for neurotypical. That does not mean they don't have struggles or are not autistic.