High functioning autism and Adapative functioning

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zkydz
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22 Feb 2016, 12:17 pm

LaetiBlabla wrote:
^^i simply present my thoughts, and my feelings. You should not feel aggressed when you do not agree with somebody, it's bad for your happiness and it doesn't help you understand because you are on the defensive mode. You insult me because you take everything like a personal attack.
What you think or say has no impact on me at all. What I am trying to tell you is that come off quite the arrogant prig sometimes.

You said I 'twisted' your meaning. I beg to differ. I took your meaning and extrapolated to how it affected me. But, you assume that nobody understands you because you're too smart for others. I say you are doing to others that you say people do to you.

I have no doubt you're smart. I do doubt that you have the ability on most levels to understand other people's extrapolations or points of view, and that you blame others for your shortcomings. And, all I have tried to point out is that your communications are garbled most times. I even excused a lot of that on second language.

But, you're too smart for everybody, so, again, not going to engage this anymore.


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BeaArthur
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22 Feb 2016, 12:26 pm

Memorable scene from the movie "Broadcast News" (1987) starring Holly Hunter as Jane Craig:

Paul Moore: It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room.
Jane Craig: No. It's awful.



Disclaimer: I owe this quote, not to my own brilliance, but to the Internet: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092699/quotes ... although I did know the actress's name and the movie.


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LaetiBlabla
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22 Feb 2016, 1:42 pm

zkydz wrote:
LaetiBlabla wrote:
^^i simply present my thoughts, and my feelings. You should not feel aggressed when you do not agree with somebody, it's bad for your happiness and it doesn't help you understand because you are on the defensive mode. You insult me because you take everything like a personal attack.
What you think or say has no impact on me at all. What I am trying to tell you is that come off quite the arrogant prig sometimes.

You said I 'twisted' your meaning. I beg to differ. I took your meaning and extrapolated to how it affected me. But, you assume that nobody understands you because you're too smart for others. I say you are doing to others that you say people do to you.

I have no doubt you're smart. I do doubt that you have the ability on most levels to understand other people's extrapolations or points of view, and that you blame others for your shortcomings. And, all I have tried to point out is that your communications are garbled most times. I even excused a lot of that on second language.

But, you're too smart for everybody, so, again, not going to engage this anymore.


For example, here you say "you said I "twisted" your meaning".
This is not true i said : "you misunderstood or distorted what i say." (what again is happening here)



zkydz
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22 Feb 2016, 1:56 pm

And there you go again. Twisted and distorted are synonyms.

So, now I think you are just being antagonistic. So, I will delete my notifications as I have no interest in continuing a pointless argument with you.

You are just doing the same thing over and over. I refuse to.


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Ettina
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22 Feb 2016, 3:14 pm

JakeASD wrote:
I have a low IQ and my adaptive skills are terrible, too. Thus, there isn't a discrepancy for me, personally.

I am convinced that I am intellectually handicapped but both my psychiatrist and case manager disagree. :(


The IQ/adaptive functioning discrepancy tends to be unique to higher-IQ autistic people. I suspect it's because lower-level adaptive skills don't really require the same skills as higher-level adaptive skills - a person with executive dysfunction will have trouble holding down a job, but won't have trouble dressing themselves. So if the cognitive disability means they're not going to be expected to accomplish the higher-level adaptive skills anyway, then the fact that they have crappy executive functioning doesn't affect their adaptive skills.

(Interestingly, though, many other disabilities have the opposite profile. Boys with Fragile X Syndrome often have better adaptive functioning than their IQ would predict, which is especially ironic since that condition overlaps with autism.)

However, if your psychiatrist and case manager don't think you're intellectually disabled, I'm inclined to go with their judgment. Unlike autism, a diagnosis of intellectual disability isn't really a subjective thing. If your IQ is less than 75 (or less than 70, depending on which test you take), you have an intellectual disability. If it's above that, you don't.

Yigeren wrote:
As far as I can tell, there are differences between the kind of executive functioning issues that those with ADHD and those with ASD have, but they are still quite similar.


The differences are that a) ASD usually have more severe executive dysfunction overall than ADHD, and b) ASD doesn't affect inhibition, which is the biggest area of impairment for ADHD.

But even so, there's enough overlap that the same supports can help. I've even found that supports for schizophrenia can help, because along with the psychotic symptoms schizophrenia also causes executive dysfunction.

Cyllya1 wrote:
Executive function is sometimes called the CEO of the brain, but I feel like it's more the middle-management of the brain. I can see the big picture situation, can make general goals and plans, see what needs to be done generally, etc, etc... but somehow it just doesn't translate into doing things correctly.


It's kind of both. Some people with executive dysfunction really can't see the big picture and make general goals and such. It depends on which specific EF skills are affected.

For example, people with prefrontal lobotomies (which damage parts of the brain important for EF) have often been reported to have poor self-awareness of their deficits. Not just in the 'it's hard to know what you don't know' sense, but in the 'basic lack of ability to monitor your own behaviour' sense.

zkydz wrote:
LaetiBlabla wrote:
Having high IQ feels like if you were living in the middle of monkeys who laugh at you when you speak, because you do not say "hoo hoo hoo hoo". Then you have to translate your language into "hoo hoo s" ...exhausting.

And, again, you don't seem to understand that this is a completely arrogant position to take. You assume that others do not understand because they are not smart. So, yeah, it ain't the brains, it's the attitude.


But what if they really don't understand?

For example, I had a couple months where I was intensely interested in particle physics. I found that at first I didn't get it, but after a bit of effort, it suddenly 'clicked' and I found it extremely interesting. But if I tried to share that interest with others, they'd get this look of panic on their faces and stop talking to me. So I had to try to avoid discussing my interest with them, which got exhausting.

Your response also shows a really common and unpleasant reaction. I've found whenever someone tries to talk about the real problems that high IQ people have interacting with normal IQ people, someone accuses them of being arrogant. It's not arrogance to acknowledge that high IQ people can understand some things a normal IQ person won't understand - that's the very definition of IQ. Is it arrogant to look at a person with Down Syndrome and say that they can't understand some things a normal IQ person can?

Also, you can't fully understand any life experience unless you've lived it. I don't fully understand what it's like to be low functioning autistic, or to be in love, or to be an elderly grandparent, or to be a species other than human. There's always going to be some things that only the person who's lived it can truly understand.

High IQ is disabling mainly because of people like you, zkydz. An honest assessment of one's abilities is taken as 'bragging' and elicits a negative reaction. Doing anything to let on that your IQ is higher than whoever you're talking to tends to elicit a backlash of insults and/or rejection.

I actually find it a lot easier to act smart when I'm with a cognitively disabled person, because they're used to people being smarter than them and know how to take it in stride instead of lashing out.



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22 Feb 2016, 3:34 pm

Ettina wrote:
But what if they really don't understand?

For example, I had a couple months where I was intensely interested in particle physics. I found that at first I didn't get it, but after a bit of effort, it suddenly 'clicked' and I found it extremely interesting. But if I tried to share that interest with others, they'd get this look of panic on their faces and stop talking to me. So I had to try to avoid discussing my interest with them, which got exhausting.

Your response also shows a really common and unpleasant reaction. I've found whenever someone tries to talk about the real problems that high IQ people have interacting with normal IQ people, someone accuses them of being arrogant. It's not arrogance to acknowledge that high IQ people can understand some things a normal IQ person won't understand - that's the very definition of IQ. Is it arrogant to look at a person with Down Syndrome and say that they can't understand some things a normal IQ person can?

Also, you can't fully understand any life experience unless you've lived it. I don't fully understand what it's like to be low functioning autistic, or to be in love, or to be an elderly grandparent, or to be a species other than human. There's always going to be some things that only the person who's lived it can truly understand.

High IQ is disabling mainly because of people like you, zkydz. An honest assessment of one's abilities is taken as 'bragging' and elicits a negative reaction. Doing anything to let on that your IQ is higher than whoever you're talking to tends to elicit a backlash of insults and/or rejection.

I actually find it a lot easier to act smart when I'm with a cognitively disabled person, because they're used to people being smarter than them and know how to take it in stride instead of lashing out.
False equivalency. What I am saying is that if you think that someone doesn't understand it is extremely arrogant to think that the other person is stupid.

And, the language issues are problematic as well. However unpleasant you feel my reaction is, it is still valid in that if you think you have a point, try to find a way to say it without calling everybody else stupid.

The arguments were circuitous and vague enough that any position could be taken in hindsight. for instance to try to differentiate between 'twisted' and 'distorted' is a prime example.

Twisted is a distortion. But a distortion does not mean twisted just as a square is a rectangle but a rectangle cannot be a square or all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs. However, contextually, they are synonyms with regard to what was said. Switch either out and it will not change the meaning of the sentence.

That was just nitpicking to say nobody understands.

And, I have no problem with people bragging. I work in a field filled with braggarts. But, if it ain't backed up with something other than "They're stupid" then it's not bragging. It is arrogance.


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LaetiBlabla
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22 Feb 2016, 6:50 pm

zkydz wrote:
And there you go again. Twisted and distorted are synonyms.

So, now I think you are just being antagonistic. So, I will delete my notifications as I have no interest in continuing a pointless argument with you.

You are just doing the same thing over and over. I refuse to.


Twisted and distorted are synonyms
I did not say "you twisted my words"
I said "you misunderstood or distorted what i said".

I do not fight, but i don't want that anybody misunderstand, distort or misrepresent what i say. That is what happened here, so i respond, sorry if it disturbs you.



LaetiBlabla
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22 Feb 2016, 7:18 pm

Ettina wrote:
I actually find it a lot easier to act smart when I'm with a cognitively disabled person, because they're used to people being smarter than them and know how to take it in stride instead of lashing out.


I have played music in music groups. But my very best experience was playing in a group including a Fragile X Syndrom. This 10-year-old child with Fragile X syndrom was bringing out a very positive energy in the group, extreme courage and will to make it. He was playing something basic, learned with a special method, but he did it , and he did it good.
He was always totally receptive to negative comments, always trying to improve. He was unusually kind and helpful, and only the way he was looking at you: you were feeling something like true love and friendship, something big that fills you for your whole life. Each time i have met or crossed a Fragile X, i have felt the same, they look at you like "You" are a precious human being.

That can indeed come from the fact that they are "disabled" and know it. But i tend to think that there is also something particularly "human" which is part of those people and that is a particular "ability", much more valuable than IQ to my eyes. (at least this is how i feel it, maybe i am over-sensitive)



Last edited by LaetiBlabla on 22 Feb 2016, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yigeren
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22 Feb 2016, 7:24 pm

I really don't think that having a high IQ is a disability. It's a difference. For instance, one who is of a minority ethnic group would not be considered "disabled" just for being different from the majority.

Being different often causes problems. It makes it harder to fit in with one's peers, and it can make it difficult for one to develop friendships and other relationships. But being different is not in itself a disability.

Having a high IQ makes it hard for me to identify with others, or to be able to discuss intellectual topics with many people. It makes me stand out. But it also gives me a huge advantage in life. I learn things much more quickly and easily than most people. That's not a disability.

I think a problem that many people with high intelligence have is that they may overestimate their own intellect and abilities, and underestimate those of other people. And the result is often arrogance, and overconfidence in the accuracy of their own thought processes.

Other people are not usually going to react positively to a know-it-all attitude or an air of superiority; those attitudes are unfortunately not uncommon among those who think of themselves as highly intelligent.



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22 Feb 2016, 7:40 pm

GodzillaWoman wrote:
I told her about the autism diagnosis last fall, and it explained a lot to her. I'm working on an important project right now, and she got the excellent idea of pairing me up with a guy who is very organized, good with customers, and good at project management. He doesn't like to code so much, and I tend to forget the organizational stuff and whatever I don't write down, so it's a good match.
wow, it's so straightforward and matter-of-fact. I wish more bosses would try something like this. It sounds like you're open to appreciating the abilities of this co-worker, and I wish you all the best on the project! :D



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22 Feb 2016, 10:47 pm

I don't know my IQ, but for me, intelligence has not been a disability, but only helped me.
The same brain functions that help me do science homework or research project also help me do daily life tasks.
One area where intelligence doesn't help me much is social, because there is so much implicit stuff there, and very spontaneous, automatic, fast dynamics between people.
But in most areas, even sports, intelligence has helped me in some way.
I don't recall anyone accusing me of arrogance, but maybe I just don't know if they think that about me.
And no real world situation in which someone told me their IQ or asked me my IQ or there was any reason to state one's IQ.
I don't recall any negative reactions when I did something showing intelligence, but perhaps I did not pick up on such cues.
In school, I did have an individual education plan for giftedness that segregated me from the class, but I don't recall negative reactions to this, but perhaps I was too socially oblivious to notice if there were.


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22 Feb 2016, 11:05 pm

So, anyone got any coping ideas for the "initiation" aspect of EF?

Ettina wrote:
But what if they really don't understand?

For example, I had a couple months where I was intensely interested in particle physics. I found that at first I didn't get it, but after a bit of effort, it suddenly 'clicked' and I found it extremely interesting. But if I tried to share that interest with others, they'd get this look of panic on their faces and stop talking to me. So I had to try to avoid discussing my interest with them, which got exhausting.

Your response also shows a really common and unpleasant reaction. I've found whenever someone tries to talk about the real problems that high IQ people have interacting with normal IQ people, someone accuses them of being arrogant. It's not arrogance to acknowledge that high IQ people can understand some things a normal IQ person won't understand - that's the very definition of IQ. Is it arrogant to look at a person with Down Syndrome and say that they can't understand some things a normal IQ person can?

Also, you can't fully understand any life experience unless you've lived it. I don't fully understand what it's like to be low functioning autistic, or to be in love, or to be an elderly grandparent, or to be a species other than human. There's always going to be some things that only the person who's lived it can truly understand.

High IQ is disabling mainly because of people like you, zkydz. An honest assessment of one's abilities is taken as 'bragging' and elicits a negative reaction. Doing anything to let on that your IQ is higher than whoever you're talking to tends to elicit a backlash of insults and/or rejection.

I actually find it a lot easier to act smart when I'm with a cognitively disabled person, because they're used to people being smarter than them and know how to take it in stride instead of lashing out.


Well, I talked about my high IQ, and no one in this topic has called me arrogant. Therefore, it doesn't seem like IQ is actually what elicited zkydz's negative reaction. (I had a similar reaction, for the record. Mine just manifested as the digital equivalent of nodding-and-smiling.)

It is socially appropriate (unfortunately) to downplay almost any talent. Does that mean all talents are disabilities?

It's also socially appropriate to limit discussing your intense interests with people who aren't interested, even if the interests are things that are easy to understand. What you've done with physics I've done with video game plots, A Song of Ice and Fire, the crafting process of interactive fiction, and mermaids. In fact, my long-time number-one biggest obsession is sex, which is generally a bad idea to discuss even with people who wouldn't mind. A bigger part of the problem might be talkativeness. I don't get much exhaustion from resisting to talk about something because I find talking itself to be exhausting.

(Come to think of it.... Not sure about LaetiBlabla's gender, but I think all the other people I've seen refer to giftedness or high IQ as stigmatized have all been female. Are you sure the negative reactions aren't just sexism? I tried to Google a study to see if women have more of a problem with this, but I couldn't find anything.)


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btbnnyr
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22 Feb 2016, 11:12 pm

For initiation, you mean getting started on a task?
I find that it is often hard to start on a task, even an easy task, but once I start, I get into it quickly and finish easily or get some part done with no problem.
The only way I found that works is simply to force start.


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Yigeren
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22 Feb 2016, 11:59 pm

I just have to force myself to do things. It's actually really hard, although it seems so simple. "You've just got to make yourself do it," people say. Well, easy for them to say, but not for me to accomplish.

I have found that the sooner I get something started, the better. Often it's anxiety holding me back. The longer I wait, the more time I have to think about how much I don't want to do whatever it is, and develop further anxiety, making it even more difficult to get started.

With tasks that aren't necessarily unpleasant, but which I don't feel like doing, it's actually harder. Because what's holding me back is the fact that I'd rather be doing something else, and it's often something I'm mentally absorbed in. Or it's because I've completely forgotten what it is I should be doing. The anxiety about completing certain tasks at least keeps them in my mind, so that I won't forget that they need to be accomplished. Otherwise they are often forgotten, and it can be months or years before I get around to doing whatever it is.



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23 Feb 2016, 12:00 am

Despite any possible male privilege, boasting how smart you are while male is a good way to get beaten up till they damage your brain so you're no longer smart at all.


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zkydz
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23 Feb 2016, 12:07 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Despite any possible male privilege, boasting how smart you are while male is a good way to get beaten up till they damage your brain so you're no longer smart at all.
Not my experience at all. As a matter of fact, I find that women that are smart have it harder.

This new captcha/sign in system is really getting bad. It makes me sign in anew each time I come back. It will not let me back out of a thread I am looking and go back to the index. It makes me sign in to post (after signing in anyway). Sometimes it kicks me back to the main index. Sometimes it makes me sign in, sign in to reply, sign in to captcha and then sign in again.

What happened?


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RAADS-R -- 213.3
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