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josh338
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30 Apr 2016, 2:26 pm

Brother is the best. I am so blessed to have him. Other than my husband he is my absolute best friend ever.

Nothing sounds silly about the Huckleberry Hound Spoon. I had forgotten about that character, you just brought back a bunch of great memories. Routines are so important to us because they are what keep us grounded. In a world where we are so overwhelmed by every little thing, and where much of it makes no logical sense, it's our routines that allow us to have a sense of order that we so desperately need. Because most NT's are social thinkers and they are socially behaviorally based, the rules of life among them are constantly changing to meet whatever social whims are necessary for any given situation. This creates a state of constant disorder and confusion for us. And when we add on top of that being constantly beaten down by sensory and emotional overload, as well as all the toll that the mental drain and fatigue takes on us when we are trying to have conversations or when we are trying to deal with adult issues when we are in child mode, it just becomes way too much. So the routines literally give you that bit of control and order in a world that is out of control. That is why they are so important and why we sometimes freak out when they are suddenly changed. It's like we lose anchor in a storm at sea.

And the routines can be very simple like eating with a certain spoon. I have a bedtime routine and it if gets altered too much I can't fall asleep and sometimes I get really upset and cry like a two year old. I have other routines as well but that is one of my big ones.

It is really kind of fun learning about how Autistic we really are. Well I can't speak for everyone but it is fun for me. The more I learn and find out, the more sense my life makes to me and that makes me feel good. I am so glad to get to experience this journey with you. It is really fun to watch you become true to yourself.

In another post you had mentioned stimming and rediscovering your child side and how great that feels. That is so awesome. Keep doing that, it will really help you. Those things are so incredibly important. The stimming, hand flapping, rocking, which is my favorite, staring, vocal stims, I like to listen to a piece of music over and over again for months, or hum a piece of music over and over, and pacing, and there are lists of others, but those are really important because they really do have a neurological affect on our bodies that is regulating and calming. Sometimes people stim because they are understimulated and sometimes we do it because we are over stimulated. So it is a way for the body to regulate itself. That is why it is so important to do it even if people think it's weird. Sometimes I do it just because it feels really good but sometimes it is absolutely necessary for me to do it in order to get through something. It also helps me so that I don't end up having huge meltdowns all the time.

And the child side is also physiological. It's not actually just mental. Research done by Dr. Margaret Bauman, you should look her up, she is amazing, I am just looking at some of her more recent interviews on Youtube, has shown that the brains of Autistic people actually have Limbic systems that are much younger than their chronological ages and those of their same aged NT's brains. This is very important to understand because the Limbic system is responsible for emotional capacity and emotional behavior. So the fact that we are emotionally much younger than our actual ages is because our brains are made that way. I like to tell people that when I am in child mode, when I am predominantly functioning from an emotional standpoint and not an intellectual one, which is more age appropriate and even above my age level, and that comes from the Autistic neo cortex which is overdeveloped, all this happens in the womb in the second trimester, that I am not an adult acting childish who can just snap out of it and stop being immature. My brain is actually functioning at that age level, whether it be like a 5 year old or whatever, during that moment. So in that moment I actually am a child with the processing abilities of a child of that age.

And I also had to understand how important it is for me to set time aside as well as situations to give my brain times to be in that child mode. I had spent decades hiding my child mode and only letting it out when I was alone. I had never told anyone about it. I had been reprimanded enough about acting immature so I learned to hide it. But as I got older and had more adult responsibilities I had fewer and fewer opportunities to be the child. What happened then is that I tried to suppress it. Well that ended up being a total and complete disaster. I became so unbalanced and so dysfunctional that I would have probably become insane if I had tried to keep it up. So I went back to having my child moments in secret.

Then when I found out that I was Autistic and I learned that my brain is actually made to have a very strong and active young child side, I realized that I was not acting immature at all. And it made total sense to me why I could only really get close to people who were much older than I was, parent, or protective type figures, or much younger than I was, because they, in fact, were my emotional peers, not the people in my own age group. All of this started to make perfect sense once I realized that it is actually a physiological phenomenon with Autism. I was not acting immature for my age, I was acting in a perfectly appropriate manner for the age that my brain was functioning at during that moment. And now that I understand this concept, I allow my brain to fall into whatever age it needs to in order to process whatever situation it finds itself in. And if people don't like it, then that's just too bad. No one would ever tell a mentally ret*d person to grow up and be mature. So when I am dealing with emotionally based things and my brain is in child mode, I should not have to be told that either. My brain can only deal with what it deals with at the age capacity that it is at. And I am fine with it.

One of the problems is that from what I have been told, NT's don't have this huge difference in their emotional and intellectual and mental ages. All three, for them, as far as I know, so I might not be 100% correct in this, linger very close in age. So emotionally and mentally they will be very close to their intellectual ages. That is not to say that some are not immature, and that mostly comes from upbringing or sometimes it is manipulative. But generally, they will be about the same age level for all three categories. So it is almost impossible for people to see someone acting very adult age appropriate and intellectual in one instance and then a few hours or even minutes later literally speaking, processing, and understanding like a toddler. Even my voice and vocal patterns change in child mode. So it can kind of freak them out if they don't understand it.

Now there may be therapies and all that to help Autistic kids raise their emotional capacities but I was not privy to any intervention and at this point in my life, I love my child side and am not willing to give it up for anything. It is one of the purest, most special and most endearing things about me. So the people who find it freaky and uncomfortable, and some do, they don't have to be my friends.

But it is such a huge part of who I am because it is so strong in me. I have to give that part of me time to exist and have moments daily. If I don't it's as if I tried to live my life with one arm and one leg tied in a useless position and to go about just hopping around one sided without a crutch. That would be very difficult. So I say enjoy the little boy and don't ever let anyone make you hide that. And of course there are times and places where we have to control that like in a work meeting or something but as long as you give "him" some time to exist regularly you will find yourself much more balanced.

I have toys and coloring books that I play with and when I go to the park or when I ski I am often in child mode. And it really helps me to be able to be uninhibited in child mode with another person. It gives that child side the ability to have a friend and to feel love and support. It is so awesome if you can find someone who can be that for you. My awesome big brother provides that relationship for me.

It is tough being married because the child side and adult side can't be fully dominant at the same time. And in my marriage, I am 95% as much as adult side as possible. It's not a conscious decision whether the child side or adult side is dominant, whichever side comes out is whichever side is most appropriate for the situation I happen to be in or for the people I happen to be with. So as you can imagine, the child side does not have a ton of situations to come out in. So with my husband I tend to be the more adult side, even though in many situations that might only be the capacity of a 14 to 16 year old. But my brother is great because I have no responsibilities towards him at all and he loves hanging out with the youngest parts of me which can be as young as about 5. He loves how I see and understand life when I am like that because it is so simple and pure. So he hangs out with me and gives me that ability to have that child part have a relationship where she can be completely uninhibited. Some of our favorite things to do are to ski together and bike the rail trail together and to take nature hikes in the parks and look for woodpeckers. :D

But definitely explore different ways to stim and see what you like and allow yourself to really get to know the youngest parts of you so that you can know how to meet those needs as well. It is fun when you can just be yourself. I was watching a youtube video about an Autistic girl's school in England and at the end of the video one of the little girls said something so wonderful it actually made me cry. She said, "The most beautiful thing an Autistic girl can wear is herself." And that includes every part of herself and every age at which she functions. And that goes for Autistic boys too. :D[/quote]
I'm glad you saw that post before I got embarrassed this morning and deleted it. :-) Not only is this something I've done in private, it's something I'd suppressed entirely merely because I figured only kids were supposed to do it (I had no idea it had anything to do with autism). So I'd pace, tap my feet, maybe rock back and forth a bit in my chair -- all things that were within the range of what a fidgety neurotypical would do (I was watching people in the waiting room at the allergist's office the other day and saw a few people engaging in stimming behavior, including rocking left to right.) But the unfettered "dancing" of my childhood is gone (and how different the significance of that seems now in retrospect -- they knew so little then).

The truth is, I've always felt like I was a boy inside, emotionally, but attributed that to other things, e.g., never having had a family (which I assumed would have the maturing effect to which you allude). A psychologist I saw a few months back described me as a boy man and I've had less flattering descriptions, e.g., the guy at work who called me a puppy (behind my back -- I heard that from a co-worker). There's also an innocence to me, a lack of malice, aggression, and guile. Interestingly, a couple of psychologists have been able to draw a more stereotypically male, aggressive, secure part out, so it seems to be there in me but untapped.

I've noticed that about other things as well. It seems that I have neurotypical emotional responses in me but that they're somehow trapped and suppressed. I don't know if you've had the same experience. And I've been doing intensive therapeutic work to bring them out with partial success. The therapists can't understand why it goes so slowly with me -- they say it would have happened in any one else much more quickly. And now I think I'm beginning to understand why. The part of me that does that is just very backwards. It's like teaching a ret*d child to do a task. And at the same time, it's very damaged and scared by all the pain and shame I suffered as a child. And I know that that can be an issue for anybody.

The other thing which has happened in therapy is that it's really, really easy to revert me to an early state. I first discovered this when a therapist asked me what the little boy would say, and I suddenly couldn't talk. I'd become mute again and I couldn't talk at all. They've since put me in that state several times. I'm still conscious, I can think and even communicate with hand signals (which I did as a child), and the mutism can be selective. But I just can't talk.

It's also really easy to make me catatonic, all the therapist has to do is pressure me forex to do something that I can't do and I melt down completely and not only can I not speak but I can't move or even speak. And I realize that over the years I worked desperately to discover strategies to avoid being put in that state, without knowing what it was. And then that manifested itself as avoidant or stubborn behavior.

By the way, it's major symptoms like this, both in childhood and adulthood, that make me think I'll likely be diagnosed as ASD rather than than BAP. The picture I'm getting is as you suggest of someone who is discovering that he's a lot more autistic than he thought, of someone who became proficient over the years, without knowing what he was doing, of avoiding triggers and feigning normalcy. Just this morning, someone said something to me and I realized that when I replied to her, I was consciously pitching my voice higher to feign interest. And it was conscious but automatic, because I've been doing this for so many years. And so many of my social interactions seem to be out of that playbook.

At the same time, my Aspie Quiz results seem to show a higher level of neurotypical perception and cognition. Forex, I have less trouble with perceptual overload than others here seem to. I have to wear the softest clothes possible but I can tolerate a certain amount of noise, lights, etc. without melting down (though at a certain point I become faint or detach as if I were stoned). But I'm thinking that some of that may be recovery. Because I can remember struggling more with that as a child. If I was watching a TV program forex and other family members started to talk I'd freak out because they were interfering with my concentration.

I'm also thinking that a lot of my social difficult has to do with the uncertain situations you mention. I'm panicked by uncertain situations in general. Right now, I have to make a hotel reservation but I've been putting it off for a week because I'm afraid I'm too late and all the rooms will be gone! And needless to say, I know that the longer I wait, the more likely it is that the rooms *will* be gone, but I'm still scared to find out. And social situations -- I'm comfortable if they a) don't go against my nature and b) are completely safe. Which means unfortunately that I'm usually a recluse.

Finally, it seems to me that I react too negatively emotionally to adverse circumstances. Maybe too positively to good ones, as well. So a really minor slight can cause me a lot of pain and then naturally it becomes traumatic and I avoid the situation. And I've been practicing mindfulness which has given me better control over my emotions but I still have a lot of work to do.



skibum
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30 Apr 2016, 7:23 pm

I reposted your post (^^^) and fixed the quotes to make it easier to read.

skibum wrote:
Brother is the best. I am so blessed to have him. Other than my husband he is my absolute best friend ever.

Nothing sounds silly about the Huckleberry Hound Spoon. I had forgotten about that character, you just brought back a bunch of great memories. Routines are so important to us because they are what keep us grounded. In a world where we are so overwhelmed by every little thing, and where much of it makes no logical sense, it's our routines that allow us to have a sense of order that we so desperately need. Because most NT's are social thinkers and they are socially behaviorally based, the rules of life among them are constantly changing to meet whatever social whims are necessary for any given situation. This creates a state of constant disorder and confusion for us. And when we add on top of that being constantly beaten down by sensory and emotional overload, as well as all the toll that the mental drain and fatigue takes on us when we are trying to have conversations or when we are trying to deal with adult issues when we are in child mode, it just becomes way too much. So the routines literally give you that bit of control and order in a world that is out of control. That is why they are so important and why we sometimes freak out when they are suddenly changed. It's like we lose anchor in a storm at sea.

And the routines can be very simple like eating with a certain spoon. I have a bedtime routine and it if gets altered too much I can't fall asleep and sometimes I get really upset and cry like a two year old. I have other routines as well but that is one of my big ones.

It is really kind of fun learning about how Autistic we really are. Well I can't speak for everyone but it is fun for me. The more I learn and find out, the more sense my life makes to me and that makes me feel good. I am so glad to get to experience this journey with you. It is really fun to watch you become true to yourself.

In another post you had mentioned stimming and rediscovering your child side and how great that feels. That is so awesome. Keep doing that, it will really help you. Those things are so incredibly important. The stimming, hand flapping, rocking, which is my favorite, staring, vocal stims, I like to listen to a piece of music over and over again for months, or hum a piece of music over and over, and pacing, and there are lists of others, but those are really important because they really do have a neurological affect on our bodies that is regulating and calming. Sometimes people stim because they are understimulated and sometimes we do it because we are over stimulated. So it is a way for the body to regulate itself. That is why it is so important to do it even if people think it's weird. Sometimes I do it just because it feels really good but sometimes it is absolutely necessary for me to do it in order to get through something. It also helps me so that I don't end up having huge meltdowns all the time.

And the child side is also physiological. It's not actually just mental. Research done by Dr. Margaret Bauman, you should look her up, she is amazing, I am just looking at some of her more recent interviews on Youtube, has shown that the brains of Autistic people actually have Limbic systems that are much younger than their chronological ages and those of their same aged NT's brains. This is very important to understand because the Limbic system is responsible for emotional capacity and emotional behavior. So the fact that we are emotionally much younger than our actual ages is because our brains are made that way. I like to tell people that when I am in child mode, when I am predominantly functioning from an emotional standpoint and not an intellectual one, which is more age appropriate and even above my age level, and that comes from the Autistic neo cortex which is overdeveloped, all this happens in the womb in the second trimester, that I am not an adult acting childish who can just snap out of it and stop being immature. My brain is actually functioning at that age level, whether it be like a 5 year old or whatever, during that moment. So in that moment I actually am a child with the processing abilities of a child of that age.

And I also had to understand how important it is for me to set time aside as well as situations to give my brain times to be in that child mode. I had spent decades hiding my child mode and only letting it out when I was alone. I had never told anyone about it. I had been reprimanded enough about acting immature so I learned to hide it. But as I got older and had more adult responsibilities I had fewer and fewer opportunities to be the child. What happened then is that I tried to suppress it. Well that ended up being a total and complete disaster. I became so unbalanced and so dysfunctional that I would have probably become insane if I had tried to keep it up. So I went back to having my child moments in secret.

Then when I found out that I was Autistic and I learned that my brain is actually made to have a very strong and active young child side, I realized that I was not acting immature at all. And it made total sense to me why I could only really get close to people who were much older than I was, parent, or protective type figures, or much younger than I was, because they, in fact, were my emotional peers, not the people in my own age group. All of this started to make perfect sense once I realized that it is actually a physiological phenomenon with Autism. I was not acting immature for my age, I was acting in a perfectly appropriate manner for the age that my brain was functioning at during that moment. And now that I understand this concept, I allow my brain to fall into whatever age it needs to in order to process whatever situation it finds itself in. And if people don't like it, then that's just too bad. No one would ever tell a mentally ret*d person to grow up and be mature. So when I am dealing with emotionally based things and my brain is in child mode, I should not have to be told that either. My brain can only deal with what it deals with at the age capacity that it is at. And I am fine with it.

One of the problems is that from what I have been told, NT's don't have this huge difference in their emotional and intellectual and mental ages. All three, for them, as far as I know, so I might not be 100% correct in this, linger very close in age. So emotionally and mentally they will be very close to their intellectual ages. That is not to say that some are not immature, and that mostly comes from upbringing or sometimes it is manipulative. But generally, they will be about the same age level for all three categories. So it is almost impossible for people to see someone acting very adult age appropriate and intellectual in one instance and then a few hours or even minutes later literally speaking, processing, and understanding like a toddler. Even my voice and vocal patterns change in child mode. So it can kind of freak them out if they don't understand it.

Now there may be therapies and all that to help Autistic kids raise their emotional capacities but I was not privy to any intervention and at this point in my life, I love my child side and am not willing to give it up for anything. It is one of the purest, most special and most endearing things about me. So the people who find it freaky and uncomfortable, and some do, they don't have to be my friends.

But it is such a huge part of who I am because it is so strong in me. I have to give that part of me time to exist and have moments daily. If I don't it's as if I tried to live my life with one arm and one leg tied in a useless position and to go about just hopping around one sided without a crutch. That would be very difficult. So I say enjoy the little boy and don't ever let anyone make you hide that. And of course there are times and places where we have to control that like in a work meeting or something but as long as you give "him" some time to exist regularly you will find yourself much more balanced.

I have toys and coloring books that I play with and when I go to the park or when I ski I am often in child mode. And it really helps me to be able to be uninhibited in child mode with another person. It gives that child side the ability to have a friend and to feel love and support. It is so awesome if you can find someone who can be that for you. My awesome big brother provides that relationship for me.

It is tough being married because the child side and adult side can't be fully dominant at the same time. And in my marriage, I am 95% as much as adult side as possible. It's not a conscious decision whether the child side or adult side is dominant, whichever side comes out is whichever side is most appropriate for the situation I happen to be in or for the people I happen to be with. So as you can imagine, the child side does not have a ton of situations to come out in. So with my husband I tend to be the more adult side, even though in many situations that might only be the capacity of a 14 to 16 year old. But my brother is great because I have no responsibilities towards him at all and he loves hanging out with the youngest parts of me which can be as young as about 5. He loves how I see and understand life when I am like that because it is so simple and pure. So he hangs out with me and gives me that ability to have that child part have a relationship where she can be completely uninhibited. Some of our favorite things to do are to ski together and bike the rail trail together and to take nature hikes in the parks and look for woodpeckers. :D

But definitely explore different ways to stim and see what you like and allow yourself to really get to know the youngest parts of you so that you can know how to meet those needs as well. It is fun when you can just be yourself. I was watching a youtube video about an Autistic girl's school in England and at the end of the video one of the little girls said something so wonderful it actually made me cry. She said, "The most beautiful thing an Autistic girl can wear is herself." And that includes every part of herself and every age at which she functions. And that goes for Autistic boys too. :D


I'm glad you saw that post before I got embarrassed this morning and deleted it. :-) Not only is this something I've done in private, it's something I'd suppressed entirely merely because I figured only kids were supposed to do it (I had no idea it had anything to do with autism). So I'd pace, tap my feet, maybe rock back and forth a bit in my chair -- all things that were within the range of what a fidgety neurotypical would do (I was watching people in the waiting room at the allergist's office the other day and saw a few people engaging in stimming behavior, including rocking left to right.) But the unfettered "dancing" of my childhood is gone (and how different the significance of that seems now in retrospect -- they knew so little then).

The truth is, I've always felt like I was a boy inside, emotionally, but attributed that to other things, e.g., never having had a family (which I assumed would have the maturing effect to which you allude). A psychologist I saw a few months back described me as a boy man and I've had less flattering descriptions, e.g., the guy at work who called me a puppy (behind my back -- I heard that from a co-worker). There's also an innocence to me, a lack of malice, aggression, and guile. Interestingly, a couple of psychologists have been able to draw a more stereotypically male, aggressive, secure part out, so it seems to be there in me but untapped.

I've noticed that about other things as well. It seems that I have neurotypical emotional responses in me but that they're somehow trapped and suppressed. I don't know if you've had the same experience. And I've been doing intensive therapeutic work to bring them out with partial success. The therapists can't understand why it goes so slowly with me -- they say it would have happened in any one else much more quickly. And now I think I'm beginning to understand why. The part of me that does that is just very backwards. It's like teaching a ret*d child to do a task. And at the same time, it's very damaged and scared by all the pain and shame I suffered as a child. And I know that that can be an issue for anybody.

The other thing which has happened in therapy is that it's really, really easy to revert me to an early state. I first discovered this when a therapist asked me what the little boy would say, and I suddenly couldn't talk. I'd become mute again and I couldn't talk at all. They've since put me in that state several times. I'm still conscious, I can think and even communicate with hand signals (which I did as a child), and the mutism can be selective. But I just can't talk.

It's also really easy to make me catatonic, all the therapist has to do is pressure me forex to do something that I can't do and I melt down completely and not only can I not speak but I can't move or even speak. And I realize that over the years I worked desperately to discover strategies to avoid being put in that state, without knowing what it was. And then that manifested itself as avoidant or stubborn behavior.

By the way, it's major symptoms like this, both in childhood and adulthood, that make me think I'll likely be diagnosed as ASD rather than than BAP. The picture I'm getting is as you suggest of someone who is discovering that he's a lot more autistic than he thought, of someone who became proficient over the years, without knowing what he was doing, of avoiding triggers and feigning normalcy. Just this morning, someone said something to me and I realized that when I replied to her, I was consciously pitching my voice higher to feign interest. And it was conscious but automatic, because I've been doing this for so many years. And so many of my social interactions seem to be out of that playbook.

At the same time, my Aspie Quiz results seem to show a higher level of neurotypical perception and cognition. Forex, I have less trouble with perceptual overload than others here seem to. I have to wear the softest clothes possible but I can tolerate a certain amount of noise, lights, etc. without melting down (though at a certain point I become faint or detach as if I were stoned). But I'm thinking that some of that may be recovery. Because I can remember struggling more with that as a child. If I was watching a TV program forex and other family members started to talk I'd freak out because they were interfering with my concentration.

I'm also thinking that a lot of my social difficult has to do with the uncertain situations you mention. I'm panicked by uncertain situations in general. Right now, I have to make a hotel reservation but I've been putting it off for a week because I'm afraid I'm too late and all the rooms will be gone! And needless to say, I know that the longer I wait, the more likely it is that the rooms *will* be gone, but I'm still scared to find out. And social situations -- I'm comfortable if they a) don't go against my nature and b) are completely safe. Which means unfortunately that I'm usually a recluse.

Finally, it seems to me that I react too negatively emotionally to adverse circumstances. Maybe too positively to good ones, as well. So a really minor slight can cause me a lot of pain and then naturally it becomes traumatic and I avoid the situation. And I've been practicing mindfulness which has given me better control over my emotions but I still have a lot of work to do.


_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."

Wreck It Ralph


Last edited by skibum on 30 Apr 2016, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

josh338
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30 Apr 2016, 7:47 pm

Whoa, sorry about that. And for some reason it won't let me edit or delete the original. But thanks for fixing it.



skibum
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30 Apr 2016, 7:53 pm

josh338 wrote:
Whoa, sorry about that. And for some reason it won't let me edit or delete the original. But thanks for fixing it.

No problem, it's all good. :D I am about to respond but I am taking your post into my word program so that I can respond point by point within your post using different colors.


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Wreck It Ralph


skibum
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30 Apr 2016, 8:40 pm

I am posting my response in sections otherwise it will be too long. Oh shoot, the colors did not work. Ok I will underline and Italicize my responses. Here goes:

I'm glad you saw that post before I got embarrassed this morning and deleted it. :-) Not only is this something I've done in private, it's something I'd suppressed entirely merely because I figured only kids were supposed to do it (I had no idea it had anything to do with autism). So I'd pace, tap my feet, maybe rock back and forth a bit in my chair -- all things that were within the range of what a fidgety neurotypical would do (I was watching people in the waiting room at the allergist's office the other day and saw a few people engaging in stimming behavior, including rocking left to right.) But the unfettered "dancing" of my childhood is gone (and how different the significance of that seems now in retrospect -- they knew so little then).

I am so glad I saw it before you deleted it as well. In future, don’t ever be afraid or embarrassed to share on WP. First of all, it’s all anonymous so no one knows who you actually are. Sometimes it’s easy to forget that because sometimes we really do become close to each other here and it’s like we really know each other. But it you hit me over the head in the street tomorrow, I would have no idea it was you. So even if you might feel embarrassed about something, you don’t have to worry about anyone knowing it’s you. And as you found out, you may find out more often that what you are sharing is actually extremely common to many of us and we can all relate. So post whatever you like. People do post very intimate things here and every now and again a troll or bully comes along, but generally you will find support.

[i]NT’s also stim so stimming is not exclusive to people on the Spectrum. And people with other disorders do as well. The difference between Spectrum stimming and NT stimming is the frequency and the degree of our stims. That is basically the rule for all things in HFASD (“high functioning”) by the way. I am only saying HFA in this case because that is what I am and what I have researched extensively. I don’t want to make a blanket statement about everyone on the Spectrum with this because I just don’t know if it’s true for LFASD (low functioning). But you will see NT’s tapping fingers or twirling hair or jiggling knees or whatever, but when we do it, it is not just because we are nervous or impatient. I think it has a much deeper neurological effect on our systems. For them they just do it because it relaxes them. For us it is vital. If we don’t do it, we might end up melting down pretty massively.[/i]

I also do the uninhibited dance thing but I do it when I am alone. I have not had the courage yet to be that uninhibited in front of anyone, even my husband. I also do it in the dark mostly because I find the movement in a dark room so incredibly soothing. And sometimes I dance to the same song over and over again. I am still listening to Halo by Beyonce but a slower version from the movie, If I Stay. I have been playing is continuously for almost a week now. But I find that free dance and that kind of movement, for me I like it slow and big, is extremely relaxing. It feels like it reaches the depths of my soul as does the music I like to stim to. I’ll bet if you tried to dance again it would come right back to you. Movement is very important to Autistics and repetitive movement, stimming, is actually part of the diagnostic criteria.

The truth is, I've always felt like I was a boy inside, emotionally, but attributed that to other things, e.g., never having had a family (which I assumed would have the maturing effect to which you allude). A psychologist I saw a few months back described me as a boy man and I've had less flattering descriptions, e.g., the guy at work who called me a puppy (behind my back -- I heard that from a co-worker). There's also an innocence to me, a lack of malice, aggression, and guile. Interestingly, a couple of psychologists have been able to draw a more stereotypically male, aggressive, secure part out, so it seems to be there in me but untapped.

I know what you mean about being a boy man. I feel the same way but in the feminine. And people criticize me about it sometimes too but I don't care anymore. My mature side is not ingenuine by any means. It is very real and like I stated in my earlier post, I don’t control which age comes out when. I have learned to turn off and hide the child side when needed but I can’t control when it comes. But I have noticed that when I let all the walls down, when all my guards are down and I am most relaxed or when I am too tired to keep any guards up, I naturally become my youngest self. When I am more intellectual and more adult and taking care of adult things, I am very guarded. My speech is more formal and even the tone of my voice is more mature. So I have concluded that my most authentic, most natural self is my youngest self. So you might find that out as well.

It will be interesting to see what age you feel and function at when you are the most relaxed without any guards up. As you release your anxiety and get more comfortable in who you are, you will have more and more moments where you are totally relaxed and you will be able to tell by what you want to do or perhaps, even like me, how your speech, processing and perceiving things goes.


I've noticed that about other things as well. It seems that I have neurotypical emotional responses in me but that they're somehow trapped and suppressed. I don't know if you've had the same experience. And I've been doing intensive therapeutic work to bring them out with partial success. The therapists can't understand why it goes so slowly with me -- they say it would have happened in any one else much more quickly. And now I think I'm beginning to understand why. The part of me that does that is just very backwards. It's like teaching a ret*d child to do a task. And at the same time, it's very damaged and scared by all the pain and shame I suffered as a child. And I know that that can be an issue for anybody.

Sounds like you had a very difficult childhood. You also mentioned you did not have a family. That can definitely affect how you process emotional things very much. The other thing to consider as well is that it can also be an Autism thing. One of the things that makes Autistic people Autistic is processing speed. It’s one of the things they test for when you get your diagnostic testing done. Actually quite a few parts of the comprehensive 8 hour test that I took were to determine processing speed. Processing speed for Autistics is much slower than it is for NT’s. To give you an example from my life, it was determined in my testing that I receive stimuli in the 87th percentile but my brain processes that input in the 30th percentile. This is not just a measurement for sensory input but it works the same way for emotional things as well.


So with emotional things, we have a lot of emotional stuff going on as Autistics because we don’t really filter anything. So when we feel emotions we can feel them at such intense avalanche proportions that they completely overwhelm us. And then the brain is slow to process the information so it causes a back log. And the other thing that one of my Autistic friends taught me is that our brains can only focus on processing emotional stuff when it is not being overwhelmed with sensory stuff. So when it has to process sensory overload stuff, it has to put the emotional stuff on the back burner until it has a break from the sensory stuff and then it pulls up bits of emotional stuff to process. So we end processing emotional things in small chunks so you can go decades and still be trying to process emotional stuff. So yes, it will go much slower than for NTs. There are things that my NT brother and sister can process in a matter of days and it takes me years. And stuff that I consider traumatic can take decades.


It’s also hard because I tend to suffer from the emotional equivalent of PTSD. This is because of the lack of brain filters and dampeners that we have combined with the super slow processing speed. I will tell you how it works for me but I know that other Autistics have told me that it is the same for them. When I go through an emotional trauma, and my emotional traumas could be things that NT’s don’t even notice, but if I go through something, then everything in my life that I have every gone through which is similar will come back to me with the same raw emotion as it did when it originally happened. And I could have multiple things come up at once and since I am very visual, they come up like movies in full color and HD playing in my head. So all of a sudden my brain gets hit with all this emotional stuff and it gets completely overwhelmed. So it has to do it all in small chunks therefore, taking pretty much forever. But yes, the trauma you had as a kid will affect that very much as well, and that trauma was most likely heightened because you were an Autistic kid.


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30 Apr 2016, 9:03 pm

The other thing which has happened in therapy is that it's really, really easy to revert me to an earlystate. I first discovered this when a therapist asked me what the little boy would say, and I suddenly couldn't talk. I'd become mute again and I couldn't talk at all. They've since put me in that state several times. I'm still conscious, I can think and even communicate with hand signals (which I did as a child), and the mutism can be selective. But I just can't talk.
It's also really easy to make me catatonic, all the therapist has to do is pressure me forex to do something that I can't do and I melt down completely and not only can I not speak but I can't move or even speak. And I realize that over the years I worked desperately to discover strategies to avoid being put in that state, without knowing what it was. And then that manifested itself as avoidant or stubborn behavior.

The same thing happens to me but I don’t become catatonic. but I remember reading that some Autistics do get catatonic. I get selective mutism though. But it is very easy to get me emotional and once I get to where I am dominantly emotional, I automatically revert to my younger selves. Sometimes it takes a while to get my speech back. And people misinterpret it all the time as defiance. It's so annoying because they don't realize that I am actually hurting and then to be called defiant and to get disciplined for that hurts worse and makes it more difficult for me to recover. Then I tend to lose trust and that takes effort to rebuild.


By the way, it's major symptoms like this, both in childhood and adulthood, that make me think I'll likely be diagnosed as ASD rather than than BAP. The picture I'm getting is as you suggest of someone who is discovering that he's a lot more autistic than he thought, of someone who became proficient over the years, without knowing what he was doing, of avoiding triggers and feigning normalcy. Just this morning, someone said something to me and I realized that when I replied to her, I was consciously pitching my voice higher to feign interest. And it was conscious but automatic, because I've been doing this for so many years. And so many of my social interactions seem to be out of that playbook.

Yeah, we were taught that to be accepted we had to appear as NT as possible so it became a survival mode. That is why we are so good at it. And after doing it for decades you do it without realizing it. You do get vey exhausted and burned out though but unless you understand what is happening you don’t associate the social exhaustion and burnout with masking NT because you have been doing that for so long that you think you are doing it naturally. But really you are not. You are just not aware of the effort it takes for you to do it.

At the same time, my Aspie Quiz results seem to show a higher level of neurotypical perception and cognition. Forex, I have less trouble with perceptual overload than others here seem to. I have to wear the softest clothes possible but I can tolerate a certain amount of noise, lights, etc. without melting down (though at a certain point I become faint or detach as if I were stoned). But I'm thinking that some of that may be recovery. Because I can remember struggling more with that as a child. If I was watching a TV program forex and other family members started to talk I'd freak out because they were interfering with my concentration.

Sensitivities can change with different circumstances. Stress levels can really heighten them so you may have been much more stressed in your childhood which would make you more susceptible do sensory overload. Also remember that the online quizzes might not give you the most accurate portrayal of yourself. Some of them are really good but some of those questions are poorly asked and you can misread what they are really asking and answer them in ways that give you a false reading. That is why a real diagnostic test, a good comprehensive one, is a good idea because it is designed to be as accurate as it can be. Some of the sections are also very specifically designed so that you cannot fool them. And you can score high in some areas and not as high in others. No Autistic person is exactly like another. You may have some areas where Autistic traits and symptoms are much stronger. The diagnostic criteria has several sections and you don’t have to have every single thing in it to be Autistic. There are a minimum amount of things you must have but not all of them.


I'm also thinking that a lot of my social difficult has to do with the uncertain situations you mention. I'm panicked by uncertain situations in general. Right now, I have to make a hotel reservation but I've been putting it off for a week because I'm afraid I'm too late and all the rooms will be gone! And needless to say, I know that the longer I wait, the more likely it is that the rooms *will* be gone, but I'm still scared to find out. And social situations -- I'm comfortable if they a) don't go against my nature and b) are completely safe. Which means unfortunately that I'm usually a recluse.

I have had similar thought patterns. Sometimes I can’t manage to get a task done at all because I paralyze myself with my thought patterns. I am pretty sure that is an Autism thing as well. It’s part of the anxiety that we tend to be really good at. :D


Finally, it seems to me that I react too negatively emotionally to adverse circumstances. Maybe too positively to good ones, as well. So a really minor slight can cause me a lot of pain and then naturally it becomes traumatic and I avoid the situation.

Yep, that is totally common Autistic behavior. I am exactly the same way. :D

And I've been practicing mindfulness which has given me better control over my emotions but I still have a lot of work to do.

Sounds like you are on a good track here Josh!


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01 May 2016, 2:44 am

josh338 wrote:
I know what you mean about being in limbo. I don't even know how to describe myself. I feel such a connection with what people are saying about their experiences that I start to type things like "we Aspies" and then I catch myself. (But I think it's interesting that I'm starting to feel that way and seeing how others' experiences are so like my own has a lot to do with that.)

I do know I have BAP, it's just so obvious to me (and my psychologist once I sent her a paper on it) that there's no reason for a diagnosis. And I noticed something that shocked me. I was thinking of my three best friends in high school (and still my friends after all these years) and -- One has an Aspie kid. One has an Aspie nephew (he adopted). And the third, in retrospect, shows so many signs of being an Aspie himself! The chances of that happening at random are just miniscule. So the only real question I have now is whether I cross the line into ASD.

I don't know if I'd have the luck you do with allowances but I like to think I'd get some because I get flack every few days from people who are well-disposed towards me. Forex someone might hint that she wants me to do the dishes but I'm totally oblivious to the hint. And then I get yelled at and I'm thinking why didn't she just ask me nicely to do the dishes? Or I'll say "thanks" because I know you're supposed to but it's sort of wooden, I'm thinking "OK, I got a life, I have to say "thanks" now, when is the best time to say it so it sounds natural?" and then when it comes out it sounds sort of robotic when I know someone else would say it with music in their voice because it comes naturally to them.

Man, when I think about stuff like that it just seems more and more that I'm an Aspie. I compensate but it always seems awkward to neurotypicals because what I say lack the timing and music and genuine emotion. And then they think I'm strange and I get hurt because I don't know what I did wrong, I think OK, I know I'm shy and kind of awkward when I first meet someone but why did she say I was weird?


Been there. Whenever people thank me, I always say "you're welcome" even if I don't know why they're thanking me. When I do that, it comes out sounding confused and uncertain, and makes people laugh. That's another thing, I say things that I think are perfectly innocuous, or I double check to make sure I understood things, like, "That was a joke right?" or, "was that sarcasm?" and it makes people laugh. It makes me feel bad because I never understand why they're laughing, and it feels like they're laughing at me, or at how weird I am. When I ask why they're laughing, they just laugh harder, which makes it worse. They also do annoying things like lie and say they weren't being sarcastic when they were (essentially sarcasm on top of sarcasm) and it confuses the crap out of me, then they laugh at me for that too.


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01 May 2016, 9:19 am

StarTrekker wrote:
josh338 wrote:
I know what you mean about being in limbo. I don't even know how to describe myself. I feel such a connection with what people are saying about their experiences that I start to type things like "we Aspies" and then I catch myself. (But I think it's interesting that I'm starting to feel that way and seeing how others' experiences are so like my own has a lot to do with that.)

I do know I have BAP, it's just so obvious to me (and my psychologist once I sent her a paper on it) that there's no reason for a diagnosis. And I noticed something that shocked me. I was thinking of my three best friends in high school (and still my friends after all these years) and -- One has an Aspie kid. One has an Aspie nephew (he adopted). And the third, in retrospect, shows so many signs of being an Aspie himself! The chances of that happening at random are just miniscule. So the only real question I have now is whether I cross the line into ASD.

I don't know if I'd have the luck you do with allowances but I like to think I'd get some because I get flack every few days from people who are well-disposed towards me. Forex someone might hint that she wants me to do the dishes but I'm totally oblivious to the hint. And then I get yelled at and I'm thinking why didn't she just ask me nicely to do the dishes? Or I'll say "thanks" because I know you're supposed to but it's sort of wooden, I'm thinking "OK, I got a life, I have to say "thanks" now, when is the best time to say it so it sounds natural?" and then when it comes out it sounds sort of robotic when I know someone else would say it with music in their voice because it comes naturally to them.

Man, when I think about stuff like that it just seems more and more that I'm an Aspie. I compensate but it always seems awkward to neurotypicals because what I say lack the timing and music and genuine emotion. And then they think I'm strange and I get hurt because I don't know what I did wrong, I think OK, I know I'm shy and kind of awkward when I first meet someone but why did she say I was weird?


Been there. Whenever people thank me, I always say "you're welcome" even if I don't know why they're thanking me. When I do that, it comes out sounding confused and uncertain, and makes people laugh. That's another thing, I say things that I think are perfectly innocuous, or I double check to make sure I understood things, like, "That was a joke right?" or, "was that sarcasm?" and it makes people laugh. It makes me feel bad because I never understand why they're laughing, and it feels like they're laughing at me, or at how weird I am. When I ask why they're laughing, they just laugh harder, which makes it worse. They also do annoying things like lie and say they weren't being sarcastic when they were (essentially sarcasm on top of sarcasm) and it confuses the crap out of me, then they laugh at me for that too.
I think that is really mean. If they know you are Autistic they should not treat you that way. Even if they don't know, that is still a very mean way to treat someone.


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02 May 2016, 12:10 am

^ I think so too Skibum :( Even my social skills group leaders laugh at the things I say sometimes, but they will tell me why when I ask. Most often it's because I've "caught them off guard" (not sure I even really know what that means), or that I'm, "very honest and endearing".

I finally went back and read your and Josh's walls of text above, and I resonate a lot with what you both said about fluctuating between child and adult mindsets. Even though I can function as an independent adult in about 70-80% of my life, I do it all through a childlike lens. My mother said the other evening that I have about the same social/emotional functioning as the average eleven-year-old. My room is full of toys, I dance and sing in front of my co-workers at work (although we're all a bit interesting; I'm not the only one who sings!), when I'm excited I bounce around flapping my hands, I have my own cape and play "superheroes" with my imaginary friends (and imaginary villains), and I'm told by everyone I meet that I'm "cute", "endearing", "honest", etc., which gives me the impression that they see me in this childlike light as well. I also like to make friends with people who are a lot older than me, because I feel safe having friends who can and want to protect me socially and emotionally. I just see being "grown up" as stuffy and boring with too much coffee. I'm like Peter Pan, I have no interest in growing up!


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02 May 2016, 4:07 am

Startrekker, you and I would be great friends IRL as well as we are here. :heart:


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02 May 2016, 10:22 pm

I got a diagnosis but I was already sure in my own mind so it didn't upset me. I got it in writing and it was the foundation of my building a better life. I'm not talking about friends and relatives, I mean organizations that offer help or guidance or whatever. That didn't quite work out like I wanted - they help children only. But I read that book (scroll down) and was determined to make an "Aspie paradise" out of my apartment - easy and cheap - all kinds of things that I didn't know were irritating me. But somehow I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't have the Official Written Dx.

While I'm here - you might want to try leaving a bar of soap in your bed. Any kind will do. It cures itchy legs and just generally makes the bed feel good. Aw g'wan, try it! Any kind will do.

Back to my life - so then I bought (on-line) a button that says, "I'm not ignoring you, I have Autism." I pinned it on my cap where it would be eye-level for others and where I wouldn't see them read it. I wore it to the grocery store, where they used to treat me so badly. They even had security following me around. But when I wore that button, it all changed immediately. Everybody was nice. So it was really worth doing. I'm picky about where to go with the button - the grocery store was a good example. Oh, there are lots of confrontational buttons, try to stay friendly. :D



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03 May 2016, 1:18 am

skibum wrote:
Startrekker, you and I would be great friends IRL as well as we are here. :heart:


I'm sure we would be :D :heart:


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03 May 2016, 1:21 am

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Back to my life - so then I bought (on-line) a button that says, "I'm not ignoring you, I have Autism." I pinned it on my cap where it would be eye-level for others and where I wouldn't see them read it. I wore it to the grocery store, where they used to treat me so badly. They even had security following me around. But when I wore that button, it all changed immediately. Everybody was nice. So it was really worth doing. I'm picky about where to go with the button - the grocery store was a good example. Oh, there are lots of confrontational buttons, try to stay friendly. :D


That's funny Claradoon, I was literally thinking about doing the exact same thing recently, with the same button and all. I'm considering having a weighted and non-weighted cap that I can switch out depending on my sensory needs at the time.


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03 May 2016, 1:23 am

I think that you should get a diagnosis from a psychiatrist or psychologist who is experienced in autism issues. I did that; I was diagnosed as on the autism spectrum and it was a great relief to know, though I had suspected it for many years. Check if your insurance will cover it; mine does.



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03 May 2016, 5:44 am

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I got a diagnosis but I was already sure in my own mind so it didn't upset me. I got it in writing and it was the foundation of my building a better life. I'm not talking about friends and relatives, I mean organizations that offer help or guidance or whatever. That didn't quite work out like I wanted - they help children only. But I read that book (scroll down) and was determined to make an "Aspie paradise" out of my apartment - easy and cheap - all kinds of things that I didn't know were irritating me. But somehow I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't have the Official Written Dx.

While I'm here - you might want to try leaving a bar of soap in your bed. Any kind will do. It cures itchy legs and just generally makes the bed feel good. Aw g'wan, try it! Any kind will do.

Back to my life - so then I bought (on-line) a button that says, "I'm not ignoring you, I have Autism." I pinned it on my cap where it would be eye-level for others and where I wouldn't see them read it. I wore it to the grocery store, where they used to treat me so badly. They even had security following me around. But when I wore that button, it all changed immediately. Everybody was nice. So it was really worth doing. I'm picky about where to go with the button - the grocery store was a good example. Oh, there are lots of confrontational buttons, try to stay friendly. :D

That is cool. Do you know how the soap actually works? The button is a good idea too. I like that because it's small and not in your face like a tshirt. Thanks for the ideas. I will have to check out the book too.


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03 May 2016, 8:28 am

Nobody knows how or why the soap works but everybody I know is ecstatic about it. I'm surprised you've put it on a "to do" list - grab soap and fling it in bed - not a new soap, you'll have to unwrap it. Just grab the one off the sink - oh, I haven't had my coffee yet, better come back - your way is best, of course!

What is going on with these forums, the way my Quote is all over your Message - it's the whole thread not just you.

ok ok going for coffee now.

have a great day :D