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androbot01
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22 Jun 2016, 11:11 am

jbw wrote:
It is incomprehensible how NTs can perceive a dysfunctional environment, and then simply ignore it. It must be because they are afraid to be seen to be "stepping out of line".

Sometimes I wonder if nts believe some of the myths of our culture, like that humans are somehow "blessed" or special. And that as long as we are happy, that is all that matters. It seems sometimes like the human ego thinks it is divine.

Jacoby wrote:
... "The NT world" doesn't seem to have time for me and I don't have any other world besides the one in my head. **** it.
Yeah ... I'm spending way too much time in my head lately. But I kinda like it.



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22 Jun 2016, 11:19 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
You can't fire the (technically) self-employed who also has retirement-enabling finances from inheritance.
nurseangela wrote:
The consistently late NT needs to be fired. And it sounds like you need your own place by yourself.

I also now currently live by myself by the way. Too much damn work to get done and it would be impossible to do anything if I were under the same roof as an NT who seems to have no clue how to do anything themselves.


The NT should-be-fired-person situation is getting way too complicated. Hire an Aspie.

The second paragraph - no comment because you won't like what I have to say.


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22 Jun 2016, 11:34 am

You know what I think is interesting is that it's thought that if one is an NT then life is just magical. If that were the case, I would be married with 2.5 kids and a multitude of friends. Reality? I'm a f'n hermit who hates my neighbors, lost most of my friends hasn't had a decent date in years, wasting away with school trying to better myself and depressed as all get out. What to get out of this? Life isn't always greener on the other side. People bug me just as much and some are even Aspie. But I go on with life, live and let live, and just avoid the person (or people) until I can tolerate them again - sometimes that's never, and you know what? It's all good because I know I'm far from perfect so why should I expect perfection from everyone else?


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
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22 Jun 2016, 12:05 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Worse than this is when you have told them what they've done wrong, and they turn around and blame you for their mistakes!
Or they say your idea is stupid and a week later everyone is doing it.
Only after one of them claims the idea as his or her own, of course.


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androbot01
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22 Jun 2016, 12:07 pm

nurseangela wrote:
You know what I think is interesting is that it's thought that if one is an NT then life is just magical. If that were the case, I would be married with 2.5 kids and a multitude of friends. Reality? I'm a f'n hermit who hates my neighbors, lost most of my friends hasn't had a decent date in years, wasting away with school trying to better myself and depressed as all get out. What to get out of this? Life isn't always greener on the other side. People bug me just as much and some are even Aspie. But I go on with life, live and let live, and just avoid the person (or people) until I can tolerate them again - sometimes that's never, and you know what? It's all good because I know I'm far from perfect so why should I expect perfection from everyone else?

You mean you don't have a pony?

Seriously, I'm curious as to your motivation in participating in this thread in the way that you are. As you are nt, I would have thought you would have been more inclined to listen to what those with autism say rather than to talk about your nt experience.



BenderRodriguez
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22 Jun 2016, 1:29 pm

androbot01 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You know what I think is interesting is that it's thought that if one is an NT then life is just magical. If that were the case, I would be married with 2.5 kids and a multitude of friends. Reality? I'm a f'n hermit who hates my neighbors, lost most of my friends hasn't had a decent date in years, wasting away with school trying to better myself and depressed as all get out. What to get out of this? Life isn't always greener on the other side. People bug me just as much and some are even Aspie. But I go on with life, live and let live, and just avoid the person (or people) until I can tolerate them again - sometimes that's never, and you know what? It's all good because I know I'm far from perfect so why should I expect perfection from everyone else?

You mean you don't have a pony?

Seriously, I'm curious as to your motivation in participating in this thread in the way that you are. As you are nt, I would have thought you would have been more inclined to listen to what those with autism say rather than to talk about your nt experience.


She's off topic, but she has a point. There is a subset of people here who not only hate and stereotype NTs as being all vapid, malevolent and stupid, a monolith that persecutes autistic people, but also propagate the myth that everything comes easy to them, with no hardships or struggles and dismisses what many of them actually achieved through sacrifices and hard work. A lot of NTs are blind to our specific struggles, but my observation here is that most of us are just as blind to theirs.

When such threads crop up (quite often), I can see how she would feel inclined to "defend" herself.

I think too many people confuse "NTs" with people in general and the nastier side of human nature in particular. As someone once said, it's easier to succeed in life by using your wickedness then your kindness.


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22 Jun 2016, 1:50 pm

Regarding the OP: what you call the NT, I call culture and in that context I agree with your observation.

The only NT/aspie issue is your second paragraph - humans are social animals and a lot of their interactions and dealings are social in nature. I think some NTs push this on us out of fear and conformism, while others out of real concern about how their children or loved ones will fare into the world without social skills.

Lucid people are very rare in general, there are a few on this site and I've met a few (non-autistic) in real life. But I also see plenty of people here who are strongly driven by perception and preconceived ideas, prone to delusion and confirmation bias, often blind to "reality" and objective fact. So I can't agree with your aspie/NT dichotomy.


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nurseangela
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22 Jun 2016, 1:53 pm

androbot01 wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You know what I think is interesting is that it's thought that if one is an NT then life is just magical. If that were the case, I would be married with 2.5 kids and a multitude of friends. Reality? I'm a f'n hermit who hates my neighbors, lost most of my friends hasn't had a decent date in years, wasting away with school trying to better myself and depressed as all get out. What to get out of this? Life isn't always greener on the other side. People bug me just as much and some are even Aspie. But I go on with life, live and let live, and just avoid the person (or people) until I can tolerate them again - sometimes that's never, and you know what? It's all good because I know I'm far from perfect so why should I expect perfection from everyone else?

You mean you don't have a pony?

Seriously, I'm curious as to your motivation in participating in this thread in the way that you are. As you are nt, I would have thought you would have been more inclined to listen to what those with autism say rather than to talk about your nt experience.


What does the pony thing mean?

I've been listening to what Aspies say about NT's for almost 3 years now and after a while it just gets old. There's stuff that bothers me about Aspies, but I've come to the conclusion that that is just how they are and I can accept it or not. Evidently I accept it because I'm still here. I see Aspies as just people. Some annoy me and others I really enjoy being around. Some NT's annoy me. I can see a person complaining about one person they know because they don't get along with that person - like me and my neighbor the Biatch. I don't care what neurology she is - she just pisses me off and I do my best to stay away from her.

Here's an example - one thing that annoys me about Aspies is they are not social enough - the opposite of what Aspies find annoying about NT's (isn't that surprising). I have to come to the realization after having a couple Aspie friends and being on an Aspie website, that I will never find an Aspie who fulfills my social needs. I don't complain about it (much) because it isn't going to do any good - that is the way they are and if I choose to be around them then I have to accept that. Same goes with NT's. Nature wired us to like the opposite things that Aspies like. It doesn't mean we are freaks. We can't change ourselves anymore than Aspies can change themselves. Making us feel bad about it isn't going to help, is it? You have to weigh the good with the bad. Does the person that annoys you have more likable qualities that overpower the crappy ones? If so, then focus on the good qualities. If not, then don't waste time being around them. Honestly, I wish the NT vs Aspie stuff would just go away.


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22 Jun 2016, 2:01 pm

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If not, then don't waste time being around them.


That is what I always do. Online, I just don't talk to them.


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22 Jun 2016, 4:08 pm

I would probably be inclined to agree IF the statement is accurate; I am a High-Functioning how-ever.

nurseangela wrote:
Ban-Dodger wrote:
You can't fire the (technically) self-employed who also has retirement-enabling finances from inheritance.
nurseangela wrote:
The consistently late NT needs to be fired. And it sounds like you need your own place by yourself.

I also now currently live by myself by the way. Too much damn work to get done and it would be impossible to do anything if I were under the same roof as an NT who seems to have no clue how to do anything themselves.


The NT should-be-fired-person situation is getting way too complicated. Hire an Aspie.

The second paragraph - no comment because you won't like what I have to say.


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22 Jun 2016, 4:23 pm

Although I often find myself thinking the same things, I don't entirely agree with your argument.

androbot01 wrote:
A concrete world where children and the elderly are warehoused so the workers can busy themselves, spirituality fulfilled with products and brand affiliation. Empty salutations, selfishness and broken promises.


I think the majority of people, NT and AS alike, feel that way about others fairly regularly. This is why teenage movies always have "baddies" who are obsessed with their appearance, empty consumerism, and petty backstabbing. Meanwhile the hero/ine is more down to Earth, seeks honest and caring relationships and is "deep" not shallow. its a trope that is as old as the bible, and I bet you pretty much anyone you ask will say they feel like that quite often.

I think the key thing is that people are naturally critical of social structures that they are excluded from. It is the view from the outside that gives you those clear and penetrating thoughts about how meaningless everything is. NTs are excluded from social groups as well, so know very well how that feels. Most with AS are more excluded than average, so probably think these cynical thoughts more than others.

I think you should be careful though of thinking that those with AS are loftier creatures with a naturally higher insight into how things work. I think a homeless person would see a lot of meaningless consumerism in my life that I don't even consider. Its all relative, and all our lives are shallow and meaningless in some ways.



androbot01
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22 Jun 2016, 4:32 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
... but also propagate the myth that everything comes easy to them, with no hardships or struggles and dismisses what many of them actually achieved through sacrifices and hard work. A lot of NTs are blind to our specific struggles, but my observation here is that most of us are just as blind to theirs. ...

I really don't care about the struggles ntism brings and that's not what this thread is about.
BenderRodriguez wrote:
Regarding the OP: what you call the NT, I call culture and in that context I agree with your observation.

When I use the term neurotypical, I mean a mind that is free of defect.

nurseangela wrote:
...Making us feel bad about it isn't going to help, is it? ...

I really don't care if this thread makes nts feels bad. I think they'll get over it.

nurseangela wrote:
What does the pony thing mean?

For me ponies indicate utopian perfection:

Image



androbot01
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22 Jun 2016, 4:46 pm

foxfield wrote:
...I think you should be careful though of thinking that those with AS are loftier creatures with a naturally higher insight into how things work.

Not "higher," but different. Where nts value their social network, for example, I value a recognition of the natural world.



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22 Jun 2016, 4:55 pm

I agree with Foxfield. I would also add that when people don't see a "dysfunctional environment" as JBW so aptly phrased it, I believe it's often about the complexity of modern life. People are busy focusing on their own issues and those of intimate friends/family a lot of the time. Fear of being seen as "stepping out of line" is only part of the problem. Also, when people feel helpless to change the environment, or when they believe they might do more harm than good for themselves or others, they stand by. There's always the feeling of, "What can I do about it?" which I myself feel very regularly.



androbot01
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22 Jun 2016, 5:20 pm

DataB4 wrote:
I agree with Foxfield. I would also add that when people don't see a "dysfunctional environment" as JBW so aptly phrased it, I believe it's often about the complexity of modern life. People are busy focusing on their own issues and those of intimate friends/family a lot of the time. Fear of being seen as "stepping out of line" is only part of the problem. Also, when people feel helpless to change the environment, or when they believe they might do more harm than good for themselves or others, they stand by. There's always the feeling of, "What can I do about it?" which I myself feel very regularly.


jbw wrote:
Yes. This is the big gulf between the autistic and the neurotypical worlds.

It is incomprehensible how NTs can perceive a dysfunctional environment, and then simply ignore it. It must be because they are afraid to be seen to be "stepping out of line".


So, Data, if I hear you right you are suggesting that nts are aware of the "problem," but see themselves as helpless in the face of it. And that nts are more interested in their social exchanges than these problems, to the extent that they create a false reality for their group. I think I get this ... the more who share it, the greater the illusion; the more the merrier, so to speak.

I've found in my life that mostly what people have to offer are empty words. I used to try to play along, but it takes too much effort and there's not enough reward.



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22 Jun 2016, 6:02 pm

Exactly, Androbot. Haven't you ever felt helpless to change a dysfunctional system or environment, and then went on with your own life and interests? It can be a shared illusion, and it can also be a coping strategy to move on to other, often immediate, concerns while feeling helpless.