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randomeu
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09 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

so, ive read that people relate to you more/feel more close to you if you can do sarcasm, so ive been attempting to do it....its not going so well. apart from the fact that i was talking to myself on my walk today (i got looked at haha a few times) it sounds like im asking a question, or im confused (thats what people say when i ask). how do you do the tone? what does it sound like?


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SilverProteus
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09 Nov 2016, 1:14 pm

randomeu wrote:
so, ive read that people relate to you more/feel more close to you if you can do sarcasm...


Really? Where did you read this?


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SaveFerris
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09 Nov 2016, 2:14 pm

randomeu wrote:
how do you do the tone? what does it sound like?


Sarcasm does not have a universal tone but this video is a good induction into sarcasm


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BirdInFlight
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09 Nov 2016, 2:32 pm

I guess it's mostly a "dry" tone of voice, meaning dead-pan rather than lots of emotion or jokiness, and the content would be mostly whatever the opposite intention is. For example if you make a mistake you would remark to someone "Well that was pretty clever of me..."

You mostly say the opposite of what you mean.

I can say some sarcasm if I'm in the mood, but when others say something sarcastically to me I usually fail to pick up on it, although when I do realize what's going on it usually makes me think less of that person.

Because, I don't like it as a form of humor. I think it's nearly always mean spirited. There's a famous saying "Sarcasm is the lowest form of humor." I believe that. I rarely think it's funny, I just think it's a-holey.


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SaveFerris
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09 Nov 2016, 2:43 pm

BirdInFlight wrote:
There's a famous saying "Sarcasm is the lowest form of humor." I believe that. I rarely think it's funny, I just think it's a-holey.


Oscar Wilde said "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence." , I kinda agree with him , some of the most sarcastic people I know are so quick witted it's scary how quick their thought processes are compared to my slow witted brain - I can be funny and sarcastic but it's difficult for me so I usually dont bother.


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BirdInFlight
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09 Nov 2016, 2:49 pm

Interesting, I hadn't heard the second part. I can agree with that -- sarcastic people do seem to also be very quick-witted, intelligent people. I've noticed that myself. However, while I might think to myself "Wow he comes across as super-smart and witty," at the same time I'm usually also thinking "I don't like his mean humor." I rarely enthusiastically LIKE someone who uses sarcasm a lot.

There's someone I run into occasionally who is ALL sarcasm and "wit," all the time, and frankly I hate conversations with him. Instead of the desired effect, I've actually started to find him the most boring person I know rather than the least. I don't care how intelligent he is, he's just exhausting and mean, in my view.

I test as above average intelligence but yet I find it very difficult to process fast enough to be a sarcastic person. People do take me for slower than I actually am, I guess partly because I neither give nor receive "quick wit" very well. I'm pretty smart but sarcasm and "wittiness" has just never appealed to me, ever.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

I don't find that sarcasm helps me "get close" to people.

I find it somewhat of an irritant at best.



BirdInFlight
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09 Nov 2016, 2:55 pm

"Irritant" -- yes, that's precisely what I feel when talking with the chap I mentioned. He's terribly terribly "witty" in that sarcastic way, but to me he's just irritating.

My favorite humor is rather sweeter. There's lots of ways to be witty or funny without resorting to sarcasm. There's lots of humor that is nicer but just as clever or entertaining.


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If you have a problem with something I post, something I believe, something I do or say, something in my sig, or something I am stupid enough to share that I'm struggling with and being caused pain by -- TELL ME TO MY FACE so that I can defend myself, instead of see you make a mockery of or a dig about it later.

On the other hand, friends will never need an explanation, and enemies bent on disliking me will never accept one.

ASD Level 1, PTSD. Plus anxiety with panic attacks, mild sub-clinical situational depression -- and a massive case of sheer freakin' BURNOUT.

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09 Nov 2016, 3:03 pm

randomeu wrote:
so, ive read that people relate to you more/feel more close to you if you can do sarcasm, so ive been attempting to do it....its not going so well. apart from the fact that i was talking to myself on my walk today (i got looked at haha a few times) it sounds like im asking a question, or im confused (thats what people say when i ask). how do you do the tone? what does it sound like?



Ernie played by John Lovitz was a very sarcastic character in A League of Their Own. I didn't pick up on it until I was an adult and I didn't realize he was making fun of Dottie and Kit. "Hey cow girls, see the grass, don't eat it" and saying to a salesman on the train if he had his job, he would kill himself, sit there and see if he can dig up a pistol. The tone of voice he had, I thought it was his normal tone and I couldn't really tell. I see he had a sense of humor and he was a very sarcastic person, not a very nice man.

I gave up on sarcasm in 6th grade because it was hurting people and I didn't know when to stop and I thought then sarcasm was another form of lying so I was saying words out there instead of another word like for example instead of telling my brother he was fat, I would say he was chubby and then say I was being sarcastic. I didn't think he was chubby, I thought he was fat but I didn't realize it didn't matter what word you use, they mean the same thing. You can't not call someone stupid but yet still call them dumb or imbecile or idiot or moron and then say you never called them stupid, you said they were a moron. So my mom had to tell me I would never get sarcasm and I know what it is now and I will never get it and I stopped after that. Sarcasm was totally new to me then and I didn't understand it so I remember saying in class one day to my aide how it was nice she was wearing a dress (when in fact she was wearing pants). She then told me she has had enough of my sarcasm. I also didn't know I was hurting my brother then or insulting anyone despite their reactions. I was too obsessed with the word and obsessed with the meaning of sarcasm.

Now when I use sarcasm, I use it to get my point across, I use it when I mean the opposite like when something happens I don't like, I say the opposite, I say it for humor. Sometimes I don't even realize I am being sarcastic when in fact I think I am being serious.

As for tone, it's difficult to tell. I only go by context and the situation. You get stuck in traffic with someone, that person goes "Oh this is just great, we get to be stuck in traffic, isn't this wonderful" and I would assume that has to be sarcasm because getting stuck in traffic sucks.


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BirdInFlight
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09 Nov 2016, 3:10 pm

Sarcasm can be used to "get your point across" but my feeling is that even in that context (as opposed to humor) it's still not the best way to do it.

You can get a point across with far greater potential for your recipient to remain receptive to you without sarcasm. Sarcasm to make a point tends only to get the other person's back up, make them defensive and dislike you. Because it's basically just a mean weapon.

The only "point" it gets across is that you just want to hurt the person, not actually explain something to them or make them see your point of view. It only distances and damages.


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~ ~ ~

If you have a problem with something I post, something I believe, something I do or say, something in my sig, or something I am stupid enough to share that I'm struggling with and being caused pain by -- TELL ME TO MY FACE so that I can defend myself, instead of see you make a mockery of or a dig about it later.

On the other hand, friends will never need an explanation, and enemies bent on disliking me will never accept one.

ASD Level 1, PTSD. Plus anxiety with panic attacks, mild sub-clinical situational depression -- and a massive case of sheer freakin' BURNOUT.

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09 Nov 2016, 4:29 pm

The only time sarcasm is instinctive for me is when Im asked a question and the answer is obvious e.g. Im fixing a garden gate and a neighbour asks "Are you fixing your gate?" , my instinct in this situation is sarcasm ( No , Im planning the best way to get rid of a nosey neighbours body ) and I have to force myself to be polite.


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League_Girl
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09 Nov 2016, 5:45 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
The only time sarcasm is instinctive for me is when Im asked a question and the answer is obvious e.g. Im fixing a garden gate and a neighbour asks "Are you fixing your gate?" , my instinct in this situation is sarcasm ( No , Im planning the best way to get rid of a nosey neighbours body ) and I have to force myself to be polite.


This reminds me of a scene in 101 Dalmatians:


Kipper climbs up onto the mansion and slides down the roof and makes a thump sound. Horace wakes up.
"Did you hear that?"
Jasper who is laying on the rotted couch: Hear what?
Horace: That noise I just heard. Did you hear it?
Jasper: Yeah, yeah it sounded like a complete berk asking me irritating questions. Oh good it stopped.

I didn't pick this for years and I thought Jasper was saying bug and I thought he was serious. After all they were supposed to be dumb so I thought he was being dumb. It was when I saw it in closed caption and I had to look the word berk up. It's a British term for stupid person.


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KimD
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09 Nov 2016, 5:59 pm

Sometimes sarcasm can highlight a "bond" when it's shared with people who are dealing with the same painful situation, frustration, or anger and it can lighten the mood up--or at least let people know that they're not alone. People might use it as a conversation starter, as in "Nice weather we're having," when it's raining, or "Man, the [team name here] really earned their money last night!" Sarcasm can also be a good way to ease up an embarrassing moment, especially if it's aimed at oneself. If you've just tripped and you say something like, "Wow, those dance lessons really paid off!" you're letting people know that you're okay and make it alright for them to laugh a little if they're inclined to do so. (Even if you're still embarrassed and you don't really want people to laugh, it can still make you seem "cool" because don't appear frail or lacking in self-confidence.)

However, some sarcasm is just plain mean, or at least rude, especially if it's aimed at someone that they know will be hurt by it. Too much sarcasm can get tedious or obnoxious, and being sarcastic about something that's super-obvious probably won't qualify as funny in the first place--but, as I said, it can be a conversation-starter, a way to change a topic, or at least a way to break the silence.

Of course, humor is really subjective and things like time, place, sub-text and culture can have a big impact on what's considered funny. A good comedian usually knows what their audience will like--they "read the room" well.



Last edited by KimD on 09 Nov 2016, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SaveFerris
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09 Nov 2016, 6:00 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I didn't pick this for years and I thought Jasper was saying bug and I thought he was serious. After all they were supposed to be dumb so I thought he was being dumb. It was when I saw it in closed caption and I had to look the word berk up. It's a British term for stupid person.


'Berk' is usualy used as an unoffensive term when somebody does something stupid but the word originated from cockney rhyming slang - Berk is an abrrievation of Berkeley Hunt , Hunt rhymes with ...... :oops:


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KimD
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09 Nov 2016, 6:31 pm

League_Girl wrote:
...I remember saying in class one day to my aide how it was nice she was wearing a dress (when in fact she was wearing pants). She then told me she has had enough of my sarcasm....


Good point: being sarcastic with someone who's considered your "superior" in a social way can qualify as cocky or flippant--or perhaps even be considered insubordination--and doing it with someone who's in need of your help (like a patient or customer) is usually rude or unprofessional--unless it's truly good-natured and you're absolutely certain that it will be taken that way. Everyone probably knows that in places like the military, it's classic for someone leading boot camp to "haze" their recruits with sarcasm and point-blank insults to build their resistance to harsh treatment or provoke them to work harder, whereas being sarcastic to a commanding officer usually results in severe punishment. It's been decades since I've seen an episode of Gomer Pyle, USMC, but I think that Gomer and Sergeant Carter sometimes clashed--or didn't--because of innocent comments taken as sarcasm or bitter sarcasm that went unnoticed.



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09 Nov 2016, 7:02 pm

KimD wrote:
Sometimes sarcasm can highlight a "bond" when it's shared with people who are dealing with the same painful situation, frustration, or anger and it can lighten the mood up--or at least let people know that they're not alone. People might use it as a conversation starter, as in "Nice weather we're having," when it's raining, or "Man, the [team name here] really earned their money last night!" Sarcasm can also be a good way to ease up an embarrassing moment, especially if it's aimed at oneself. If you've just tripped and you say something like, "Wow, those dance lessons really paid off!" you're letting people know that you're okay and make it alright for them to laugh a little if they're inclined to do so. (Even if you're still embarrassed and you don't really want people to laugh, it can still make you seem "cool" because don't appear frail or lacking in self-confidence.)

However, some sarcasm is just plain mean, or at least rude, especially if it's aimed at someone that they know will be hurt by it. Too much sarcasm can get tedious or obnoxious, and being sarcastic about something that's super-obvious probably won't qualify as funny in the first place--but, as I said, it can be a conversation-starter, a way to change a topic, or at least a way to break the silence.

Of course, humor is really subjective and things like time, place, sub-text and culture can have a big impact on what's considered funny. A good comedian usually knows what their audience will like--they "read the room" well.


I agree with what you're saying and sarcasm is also used as a sense of humor to make people laugh and be funny. But sometimes it's used to make fun of people and some people are very sarcastic and do it all the time and that is what I have a problem with. If someone is sarcastic all the time, I never know when they are serious. My first boyfriend was always joking with me which my mom called sarcasm and it would always upset me because he did it all the time. I told him how it made him felt and nothing change but at least my husband would apologize. For my first boyfriend he saw it as changing who he is if he quit doing it with me. Then he would get upset with me for taking him seriously or for not knowing he was teasing. My mom says he was just a jerk and anyone can be an as*hole.


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