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shyteddy
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04 May 2017, 12:40 pm

Why do we hate ourselves for being Autistic? Why do we self-pity and loathe ourselves for something which is entirely beyond our control? Something which is neither a disability, nor a disease, nor even a mental illness?

Many of us search for a cure and practice regular self-suppression of our true thoughts and feelings, centered around managing the "symptoms" of our "disorder" where there is none to be found; rather a mere difference in the wiring of our brains, which separates us from our peers.

The world we live in designed for neurotypicals. Less than 1/60 of us are autistic. We are raised and conditioned to match neurotypical norms of behavior and interaction for our entire lives, and find ourselves alienated for our short-comings, on account of these supposed norms being foreign to our preferences. Surely if the world were occupied by a majority of Aspies, would it not be designed around us? Then one might claim that the quality of being neurotypical (which invariably would have a different name, being as it wouldn't be typical) was an "illness" for reason of the same complications that would arise if one should attempt to communicate and express themselves normally in an Aspie dominated world. But yet, we are aware of the absurdity of such a conclusion: to paint a neurological difference as an illness or a disease, worthy of being eradicated through "cures" and other means, rather than a simple change of thought process. Our only flaws, if we wish to call them such, are a lack of sociability and general reservedness as with a differing means of perceiving the world around us. But the liabilities confronted by these traits depend on what value we assign to them. To a neurotypical living in a region dominated by Aspies, extroversion would be seen as atypical. But folly arises when the majority would attempt to brand this irregularity as a disease, worthy of annihilation, as opposed to an utterly innocuous neurological difference.

Why should we view ourselves as worthy of being cured, or in need of a mythical cure, if one should arise? Granted, I don't claim that all abnormality should be considered equally valid. A case couldn't be made for instance for accepting schizophrenia or psychosis. But there is nothing wrong with us except that we are not the majority.

Statistically speaking we are, as an median (though there's always exceptions) more intelligent, more talented, more tolerant, and have a greater propensity for deep emotional empathy and affection than our neurotypical peers. We're less likely to commit crimes, and other acts of disgusting violence. We're more likely to occupy STEM fields and intellectual positions. Among us are society's savants, doctors, lawyers, scientists, college professors, and mathematicians. But from without are groups dedicated to spreading awareness of our "illness", cautioning parents of our condition, and dedicated to finding a cure for us, as though we were monsters!

Tell me friends, should we not, instead of towards ourselves, direct our contempt at the society which is centered around excluding and persecuting us, because we don't conform with its behavioural norms and expectations? Share with me your thoughts.



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04 May 2017, 12:55 pm

I hate it when people say AS isn't a disability. While to some individuals on the spectrum it is a "difference", to others it feels more like a disability. For me it is a disability.

I think I'm a self-loathing Aspie because of the social faux pas I make or have made in the past. I think "ugh! Why did I say/do that?!" Also the way I caused stress for my mum growing up, and the way I struggle making friends, and the way it's only me in the whole family who has it. Also the way people stare at me when walking in the street even though my AS isn't that obvious and I don't go out looking unkempt or doing anything weird. It makes me feel insecure about who I am and it just esculates self-hatred.
And it makes me feel like I am "mad", as in psychotic. The way I have to be on meds to stop uncontrollable outbursts and hitting myself in the head in rage. I bet I looked like a mental patient, and I would never tell people I did that. :oops:
And the way a special interest with 2 particular people I once had made me look like a stalker. I nearly got into trouble, and the people I was obsessed with told me to see a doctor, like I was a "nutter". :oops:


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shyteddy
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04 May 2017, 1:05 pm

Joe90 wrote:
I hate it when people say AS isn't a disability. While to some individuals on the spectrum it is a "difference", to others it feels more like a disability. For me it is a disability.

I think I'm a self-loathing Aspie because of the social faux pas I make or have made in the past. I think "ugh! Why did I say/do that?!" Also the way I caused stress for my mum growing up, and the way I struggle making friends, and the way it's only me in the whole family who has it. Also the way people stare at me when walking in the street even though my AS isn't that obvious and I don't go out looking unkempt or doing anything weird. It makes me feel insecure about who I am and it just esculates self-hatred.



But that is because we live in a world built for neurotypicals, not because you're disabled or that there's something wrong with you, in the same sense we'd point to somebody with Psychosis and say something is wrong with them... None of those things are your fault, and you have no reason to be upset with yourself for your mannerisms. As with the case of a social faux-pas, or saying something which might be rude unintentionally, only part of that is our fault, and then only when we don't make the listener aware of our difference. If not, and they're still upset, that depends entirely on how they interpreted the remark... But we're blameless.

I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with how we speak or act. I enjoy talking to Aspies, they're much less superficial and shallow, and tend to focus on deep and compelling topics. They don't care for euphemisms or body language and other travesties (for instance the whole "no means yes" thing) but speak what's on their mind. There's no reason to despise yourself for that...



lostonearth35
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04 May 2017, 1:11 pm

I hate myself because I'm the same species as human beings and was born on the same planet that human beings were. A doomed planet run by a species that doesn't care if it murders innocent people in war as long as they kill the "enemy" while other people are forced to live in the streets, treats anyone who is different as though they have some hideous life-threatening plague, and brainwash us into hating ourselves inside and out.

I don't hate having Aspergers. In fact, the more I see how NT people act, the more I prefer being abnormal. It's when I'm reminded that I'm a human being who does stupid and selfish things because of my species and that I'm really no better than serial killers that I hate myself. :evil:



JakeASD
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04 May 2017, 1:26 pm

I hate myself because I don't​ have the intellect to compensate for my social shortcomings. Even though many would argue that those on the high end of the spectrum are not disabled, I personally believe I am both intellectually and emotionally disabled. Thus, I feel rather inclined to vehemently loathe myself.

And the sweeping generalisations and stereotypes don't help the cause. If you say to someone that you are autistic, invariably they will jump to the conclusion that you are either the spawn of Einstein or a complete imbecile.


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Last edited by JakeASD on 04 May 2017, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lace-Bane
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04 May 2017, 1:36 pm

to whom do you address when you state “we”, yourself?

the world is far more than tolerant, even favorable, to difference once you age and carry yourself fearlessly in a dignified manner.


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shyteddy
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04 May 2017, 1:44 pm

Lace-Bane wrote:
to whom do you address when you state “we”, yourself?


No. Rather, autistic people as a whole. When I say for instance that "we are societies savants, doctors, lawyers, scientists..." and so forth, what I mean is that these field are largely comprised of autistic people (relative to number of neurotypicals we expect to find in these fields. For instance, 1/60 people are autistic. Let's say that 1/4 scientists have traits of Aspergers. That would mean Aspies are 15x more common among these professions than among the general populace, and etc.) It was an appeal to those who feel ashamed or disparaged to be themselves, because they're different...



hurtloam
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04 May 2017, 2:16 pm

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But that is because we live in a world built for neurotypicals, not because you're disabled or that there's something wrong with you


I disagree. My aspie friends and I even have difficulties with each other. If autism was a majority thing that wouldn't change the difficulties we have interacting.



iliketrees
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04 May 2017, 3:05 pm

shyteddy wrote:
Lace-Bane wrote:
to whom do you address when you state “we”, yourself?

No. Rather, autistic people as a whole. When I say for instance that "we are societies savants, doctors, lawyers, scientists..." and so forth, what I mean is that these field are largely comprised of autistic people (relative to number of neurotypicals we expect to find in these fields. For instance, 1/60 people are autistic. Let's say that 1/4 scientists have traits of Aspergers. That would mean Aspies are 15x more common among these professions than among the general populace, and etc.) It was an appeal to those who feel ashamed or disparaged to be themselves, because they're different...

Traits of Asperger's is not the same as actually having Asperger's.

I don't hate myself. What I have is definitely a disability and I'm glad it's recognised as such. Pretty sure we wouldn't exist if autism was the majority, and if it somehow was, it'd be hell.
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Our only flaws, if we wish to call them such, are a lack of sociability and general reservedness as with a differing means of perceiving the world around us

lol i wish
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more intelligent

Asperger's had a higher average from excluding those with a low IQ. If you look at the autism spectrum as a whole, intellectual disability is an incredibly common comorbid, far more common than in the general population.
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more talented, more tolerant, and have a greater propensity for deep emotional empathy and affection than our neurotypical peers

I'd be very interested in what stats test you ran and on what. I highly doubt the talented part, the "tolerant" part is laughable with all the NT bashing online, and the majority of people with ASD have alexithymia.
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We're more likely to occupy STEM fields and intellectual positions

I didn't realise we're more likely to occupy any field given the incredibly low employment rates.
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Among us are society's savants, doctors, lawyers, scientists, college professors, and mathematicians

The majority in these fields are normal.
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friends

:|
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direct our contempt at the society which is centered around excluding and persecuting us, because we don't conform with its behavioural norms and expectations?

Oh right, yeah, people are actively conspiring against us. :roll:



Knofskia
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04 May 2017, 3:23 pm

hurtloam wrote:
Quote:
But that is because we live in a world built for neurotypicals, not because you're disabled or that there's something wrong with you


I disagree. My aspie friends and I even have difficulties with each other. If autism was a majority thing that wouldn't change the difficulties we have interacting.


I agree with you, hurtloam. It also would not change the difficulties I have alone. I struggle to be independent and take care of myself.


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shyteddy
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04 May 2017, 5:40 pm

Lace-Bane wrote:

Traits of Asperger's is not the same as actually having Asperger's.



I... think you're just nitpicking there. That's like me saying "Having psychotic breakdowns does not actually make you psychotic..." Well that might be true incidentally but a majority of the time it's a pretty good indicator you have psychosis... getting back to the example with Aspergers: My point that the world isn't designed for people with Aspergers still stands even if you just have traits of Aspergers... cause the world isn't exactly designed to facilitate those traits either.

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I don't hate myself. What I have is definitely a disability and I'm glad it's recognized as such. Pretty sure we wouldn't exist if autism was the majority, and if it somehow was, it'd be hell.


That's an argumentum ad lapidem, a logical fallacy wherein one dismisses something as absurd without giving a demonstration of its absurdity... Could you please explain why a world with a majority having Aspergers would be "hell"? Some of, if not the brightest men and women of all time have been on the autism spectrum, and society wouldn't exist as it is without their contributions.

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Asperger's had a higher average from excluding those with a low IQ. If you look at the autism spectrum as a whole, intellectual disability is an incredibly common comorbid, far more common than in the general population.


Again I think that's nitpicking... this sight is for people with Aspergers/High functioning autism, so that's who I had in mind when i made the statement, in which case it's true.

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the "tolerant" part is laughable with all the NT bashing online


"NT bashing"? You sound like a fundamentalist raving about how the evil "homosexual agenda" is oppressing small, conservative christian bakeries with its demands for tolerance and complacence to civil law. Asking to be treated fairly, however vehemently shouldn't count as "bashing". You don't see autistic people using "NT" as a synonym with "ret*d" like you see all over the internet. There isn't an organization comprised entirely of Aspies dedicated to searching for a "Cure" to being neurotypical. There aren't Aspies calling for NT children to aborted. You don't get kicked off of a school field trip or disqualified from a sweapstakes (this happened recently to a 15 year old Aspie) which you've won fair and square for no other reason than the bigoted NT staff figured out you were an Aspie and didn't want to deal with you. Now if there was an anti-neurotypical hate group in our midst, I'd be against them. But I think you're attacking a problem that doesn't exist.

As for us being "tolerant" I say that because the proportion of atheists and LGBT people is higher among aspies than neurotypicals. The same is also true of political diversity here. I'd say that's indicative of us being more open to new ideas and lifestyles as a whole.

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the majority of people with ASD have alexithymia.


As for some people with ASD having alexithymia (much moreso a majority as you claim) that's an interesting story in and of itself, and my rebuttal would be too long to paste here, so I'll link you to a scientific study on the matter. Here's a sentence from the study's abstract:

"Across two experiments, it was found that alexithymia, not autism, was associated with atypical interoception. Results indicate that interoceptive impairments should not be considered a feature of ASD, but instead due to co-occurring alexithymia."

Here's a link to the full study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4962768/

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I didn't realise we're more likely to occupy any field given the incredibly low employment rates.


Yes, unemployment is a problem among people with Aspergers. That doesn't mean however that none of us have jobs, and that those of us who do aren't more likely to occupy certain fields. That sounds like inflection on your part ("I don't have a job, so it's inconceivable that you would have a job...")

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The majority in these fields are normal.


Yes, a majority are nerotypical. But as I said, certain field are far more likely to employ people with Aspergers. We tend to favor STEM related work for instance, and so the ration of neurotypical to autistic employees will be significantly lower than the 1/60 ratio we see overall.

Quote:
:|


I'm sorry I offended you with my kindness :cry:

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Oh right, yeah, people are actively conspiring against us.


That's a strawman. I never said society was actively conspiring against us. I said the neurotypical dominated society in which we live was oppressive to Aspies, which is a completely different conclusion in and of itself. Neurotypicals have built a world which is comfortable for them to live in which is consequently uncomfortable for us to live in. That mustn't mean or imply that they're actively sitting down and conspiring to oppress autistic people, simply that the societal paradigm we live in isn't really designed with our interests in mind.

Let me give you an example of your reasoning: A hundred years ago before laws were in place stating that businesses and schools needed to include provisions for disabled people, I could have made the case to a disgruntled paralyzed man who was embittered by his ill-treatment that society wasn't actively conspiring against people in wheelchairs, and use this as a grounds to dismiss his plea for wheelchair ramps. But I would be wrong to do so, because that doesn't mean that it accounted for his difficulties, wasn't conducive to his lifestyle and needs, and wasn't designed to facilitate his way of life.



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04 May 2017, 5:48 pm

I used to constantly call myself weak and undeserving of love and attention, but as I get older I have less of this issue. I will go from hating myself to loving myself as a decent human being, because I am decent.



Last edited by ZachGoodwin on 04 May 2017, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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04 May 2017, 5:56 pm

Society, the world is not made for anyone, even Chad doesn't quite fit.
(Apologies to any Chads reading this)

Think of society as a band, we don't have to conform exactly, just slide inside the outer edge of the band.

NT people don't have a clue either, they are just slightly better equipped when it comes to understanding how and where to conform.
We understand spectrums, can accept them existing and us existing somewhere on them, NTs rarely have to confront that in the way we do.

We are all in the same boat.



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04 May 2017, 11:27 pm

In my case, what I hate isn't myself, or people in general, or what I 'have' or whatever's a part of myself, orore so if it has anything to do with what others do have or do not have.

What I hate is the need, envy, and sense of entitlement.
And I would definitely hate myself if I'm envious to anything to the point of insecurity, entitled for fulfillments and break down due to deprivation, and needy to the point that living is not 'living' but surviving and coping.


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04 May 2017, 11:40 pm

I love myself and I enjoy celebrating my autism. I don't hate myself at all. I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do. I'd rather get out there and have fun than sit around at home, feeling sorry for myself.


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04 May 2017, 11:57 pm

I don't hate myself. I don't understand self-hate.
Also I thought I hated people who have hurt me.
But I realize I didn't hate them I was just hurt.
I think if someone really hated themselves they wouldn't care what happened to themselves.
If you hate your circumstances in life and want things to get better, then you must love yourself or you wouldn't care.