family trying to exert control

Post Reply New Topic

I'm posted before about how my family has acted in regards to my physical disability and the mental health issues I've had over the year. The short version of it is that I function relatively well with a little help from my parents, and I've lived independently for many years. They have been helping me pay for the current apartment, but I'm working on ways to be more independent, either being able to make money with a project I'm working on or finding a decent job.

There's always been tension between myself and my parents over they're need to be in on everything vs. my privacy and personal life, regardless of who was paying for whatever apartment I've been living in. More recently though, they've tried to assert more control and we've have serious arguments about how I do things or their assumptions about how irresponsible I am even when I'm actually keeping things together and trying to be more organized. Past mistakes are more important than current successes.

They're fixating on limitations, and executive dysfunction to the point of not seeing how I've gotten a lot better at getting things done despite it. Some of it is more about their hangups about my personal life and me being disabled and living alone (I have my cat and dog though )

Now lately it's gotten disturbing- talk of them having themselves named my legal guardian, and a week ago they were talking about relocating to another city and very casually told me about how I'd move with them so I could be close to them for them to keep helping me- "take care of me" were the exact words. I'm pretty sure it's all talk, and everything I've been told says that they have no legal standing to make me do anything since it would be easy to prove that I'm "all there" mentally to handle my own affairs, like I've already been doing for years, and any help I need I could arrange for myself (friends helping with housecleaning or getting a home aide for example).

The only thing they could do is cut off their support, which is something to worry about, but friends have pointed out that if they really do move, that would take enough time and planning that by the time they'd actually be doing it, I'd either be working or making money from my project and not needing their help by that point, so I shouldn't get too worried. Still, it irks me that they'd just assume I'd allow them to impose restrictions on me using my disability as a pretext. They do mean well, and they need to just be honest about their concerns about me not having their help long term.

So, am I correct in assuming that they really can't do anything beyond not helping me with the apartment?

The details of your personal situation would need to be taken into account to ascertain if they would have any right over you legally. However I'd be very surprised if physical disability is reason enough. There are plenty of disabled people living independent lives without their parents' interference. You may need to contact someone in your area - perhaps a community legal aid can assist?
I can relate to this though - not with physical disability, but with autism. I too function pretty independently, and have done so completely without their help several times on and off, but it never seems to last. They however ignore this, and start behaving as if I don't understand how to feed myself or keep myself warm etc without being told. It's illogical, considering if I did not know this, I would be dead.
I have found you need to make it obvious and assert boundaries. Point out the instances where you have been perfectly capable without their help, and if they are encroaching, address it straight away - let them know what they're doing is not appropriate behaviour toward someone who is an intellectually capable adult, and they need to stop. Mentioning you believe them to be using your disability as an excuse to micromanage your life may also draw attention to the fact that you are aware of this, if indeed this is what they're doing.
It's a constant thing with me and my relatives, though. It's like training a puppy that never learns.

Your on again off again situation with family support vs. independence I can relate to- for all their complaining, out of the 22 years I've been living in my own apartments, I moved back home once early on, and most of the rest of the time I've only had a little help from them. It's only been in the past few years that they've been as involved as they have been.

I think they're also combining their grossly stereotyped attitudes about my mental issues, and that's been something that's been going on for a long time as well. Even before I was disabled, I had lesser health issues and the mental issues that never really affected my ability to function but it was obvious they were trying to use exaggerated ideas of dysfunction as an excuse to impose restrictions that weren't necessary beyond their own issues about people with health problems being able to still pursue their own interests- fixating on what one can't do and trying to force things to fit that "narrative". I say issues- it's not a deliberate effort, more like not being able to really accept one having special interests or abilities that aren't compromised by health problems, exacerbated by those interests already not being seen as acceptable. A lot of the problem is that I simply don't put on an act about things- I just deal with adult responsibility without a lot of drama, so it looks like I'm not handling things despite all evidence to the contrary. My conversations are about more interesting things, but that doesn't mean I didn't take care of something mundane like paying bills.

While I haven't called them out directly, I've made not so subtle hints that I know what they're doing and they've sort of admitted that indeed it's more about them being bothered that I have too much free time or too much control over how I can do what's important to me vs. handling responsibilities. They're aware of my possibly being an aspie, and they've read things about autism in the past, and have fixated on the inherent problems rather than seeing that many aspies are probably like me, functioning just fine and perhaps needing a little help with some things. What I've been doing more recently is showing subtle clues that I'm handling things better than they think, and making real moves to not need their help in the future, and their attitude about that shows that they're making it about themselves- bothered that I do what I want without supervision or having to give up what I enjoy to get work done. I've mentioned my plans to look for a job in the next few months after I'm tested and get treatment going for my depression and ADHD, as well as progress on my project, and I get a weird mix of support and being talked to like a lazy teen trying to avoid getting a real job. They like the idea of me working but they see a job as a restriction I have to accept rather than a step towards more independence. It bothers them that I'm trying to find a job that doesn't make me feel like I'm being punished for wanting to improve things, if that makes sense.

If they do try to pursue legal action, I definitely will seek help to block them. Honestly it doesn't look like they really could do anything, and like you said, physical disability is not a reason to take away someone's right to be independent, nor are my mental issues enough of a problem to give them legal standing to do anything. I'm more concerned about just avoiding the stress and drama of an ongoing fight if things start moving forward for me. It still sounds like more talk than anything they'll really do, but I still resent having to deal with the anxiety they're causing. Plus I get off the scale paranoid when they start really trying to interfere because that gets too close to certain details about my personal life they're not really aware or perhaps suspect a little about but they'd definitely not approve of, and they get really upset when things exist after they've said out loud they don't like it. Nothing they could legally do anything about, but I'd rather not have them close if they did find out.

You're doing better than me then - I've only been out from under their influence a few times, and always semi-supported. I was either in campus dorm at university where I was supported by staff, security, other students etc, and had all my needs supplied by the university (such as campus housing, cafeteria and health clinic, plus receiving student benefits financially) or in semi-supported accommodation for people with special needs, run by a government-sponsored organization (which cut rent in half, and provided independent accommodation but with a fortnightly case management meeting to address any needs and on-call support if necessary).
What I mean when I note "pretty independently" is probably a lot less functional than others would equate, but it's functional to me.
The point being I am not as completely incapable of doing anything as my relatives behave as if I am - especially when I am more capable in many ways than they are (computers, for example). Like yours, they latch onto the things I canot do and ignore the things I can - fact that working is almost impossible for me, and without independent work, I am always dependent on someone (them, welfare, etc). I can manage to work for short periods, but it never lasts before burnout.
If you have lived completely independent, either from them or anyone else, their case for your inability to manage yourself is even weaker. If you have significant mental health issues that could be a thin point in your defense, but you'd have to be declared legally incompetent or a significant danger to your own safety based on the severity of those issues in order for any legal guardianship to be exerted, I'd assume. But if you already know your issues aren't enough of a reason, they shouldn't be able to control you via that route.

Ugh, I have this situation too, and I am constantly hypervigilant trying to maintain my privacy while living with them. I know they are directly oppositional to many aspects of my personal life that they don't know the full details of (and in a way, them believing me incapable protects that privacy, because they'd never believe me capable enough to do what I have done without their knowledge) and yes, it's stressful trying to hide in plain view.
I think this sort of thing for people in our sort of situation needs to be incremental. You note that you have been making moves to not need their support in future. I am doing the same, and stacking up all these things together to, I hope, move away from this ping-pong dependence on relatives forever when my plans are complete.
Hopefully you continue plugging away with your plans, and get out from their influence completely, when they cannpt pretend they have any right to control or interfere with you.

The point being I am not as completely incapable of doing anything as my relatives behave as if I am - especially when I am more capable in many ways than they are (computers, for example). Like yours, they latch onto the things I canot do and ignore the things I can - fact that working is almost impossible for me, and without independent work, I am always dependent on someone (them, welfare, etc). I can manage to work for short periods, but it never lasts before burnout.

That too has been my past experience- granted, jobs were a long time ago and stressful for anyone, but the burnout would hit quickly when I couldn't deal with the job being the only thing in my life- willing to work but depressed all the time when there was no free time or not being allowed to enjoy a day off, never mind the work environment being hard to deal with. Some of the pressure I'm feeling now from my family is to get a menial job that has enough long hours and low pay that I'd be too broke and busy for anything else, and still needing their help. Work but not be independent, under the guise of any job I'd enjoy that pays well or my project making money isn't "real work". That seems to be a problem a lot of disabled persons have, either family or some other authority figures pressuring them to work for free or low pay and be too busy working but not able to afford to live totally on their own. But it's all in the same vein as deciding what someone can't do and expecting them to abide by that.

My plans with my project aren't about trying to get something for nothing or pretending that a geeky hobby is a real job, it's me seeing an opportunity to do something I really enjoy and knowing there's a good chance I can make money doing it, and not having to worry about either being aspie or my physical condition getting in the way.



If you have lived completely independent, either from them or anyone else, their case for your inability to manage yourself is even weaker. If you have significant mental health issues that could be a thin point in your defense, but you'd have to be declared legally incompetent or a significant danger to your own safety based on the severity of those issues in order for any legal guardianship to be exerted, I'd assume. But if you already know your issues aren't enough of a reason, they shouldn't be able to control you via that route.

That's what I'm hearing from others as well. And everyone else I know is telling me that I can find a job that pays well and *doesn't* entail all the extra problems I've been worrying about.

"Plus I get off the scale paranoid when they start really trying to interfere because that gets too close to certain details about my personal life they're not really aware or perhaps suspect a little about but they'd definitely not approve of, and they get really upset when things exist after they've said out loud they don't like it."

Ugh, I have this situation too, and I am constantly hypervigilant trying to maintain my privacy while living with them. I know they are directly oppositional to many aspects of my personal life that they don't know the full details of (and in a way, them believing me incapable protects that privacy, because they'd never believe me capable enough to do what I have done without their knowledge) and yes, it's stressful trying to hide in plain view.

Hiding in plain view- I've been doing that for years. A lot of the conflict about me living on my own really comes from that- they know a little, probably suspect a lot more, and are always looking for excuses to interfere, like demanding that I let them come into the apartment to make sure I'm keeping it clean and organized, but it's really a poorly-hidden scheme to snoop. And they really believe that only people hiding things call it an invasion of privacy. When they're really on a kick about wanting to snoop, I just take the really personal things and hand them off to a friend to keep until my parents get bored and leave me alone for a while. But they've done that for years with every apartment, no matter who was paying for it. During the move to the current apartment, they really interfered with that, helping, but unfortunately making up for the past moves where they either I froze them out or only let them help a little. Lots of staged drama, and anger when I refused to let them riffle through boxes I had declared off limits.

I think this sort of thing for people in our sort of situation needs to be incremental. You note that you have been making moves to not need their support in future. I am doing the same, and stacking up all these things together to, I hope, move away from this ping-pong dependence on relatives forever when my plans are complete.
Hopefully you continue plugging away with your plans, and get out from their influence completely, when they cannpt pretend they have any right to control or interfere with you.

Indeed doing things incrementally seems to be working for me. I just hate dealing with the anxiety they keep setting off with the talk of imposing restrictions and hoping any work I get is comeuppance for having too much freedom.

Sneaky. Very sneaky. Mine too are extremely manipulative, and this kind of behaviour seems like an example of yours' kind of manipulation. You read like you're wise to their wiles, though. If you expose the fact that you're fully aware of what they're doing, it seems with mine that they then decide they cannot use that plot anymore. In order for it to work, the subject must be completely unaware of the device.

Good for you sir, I say. You've identified an area that gets you what you want, and accommodates your physical limitations. Carpe diem.

Yep. Yep yep yep. The times I have moved, I did so completely independently. I once moved everything by hand, by a bus, a train, and a 20 minute walk, at 3am to avoid interference. Other times, loaded everything into an old hatchback I had at the time and drove it all myself. When I am living with them, I literally keep everything locked in trunks with padlocks on them, to stop them from going through my stuff. I know it's not impenetrable, but it's the unawareness thing again - if they forced the lock or the body of the trunk, I'd know, and that means they won't do so. They need to snoop without being caught, without me knowing about it, and won't outright force their way in. Every time I moved, they were never told what my address was, so they could not just turn up. Especially as they did not know my last two moves were semi-supported for people of a particular special need. They thought it was just regular housing and I needed to keep them away from my housemates, or it'd be obvious what was going on. They never even saw any of the places I was living (which was actually just as well, given some of the conditions I lived in). Being this secretive just makes them even more convinced I'm actually up to something that they need to snoop on me to find out, so I'm sort of proverbially shooting myself in the foot, but it's better than complete exposure.
Here's hoping your work plans work out, and you can elbow them out!
I do understand that perhaps, there is a genuine element of wanting to help out and make sure we're safe and so on in their motivations somewhere (especially as I can be a bit insensible about danger) but people have to understand where the limits and boundaries are with people with disabilities. We're adults. Help sure, but don't think it's ok to completely violate someone's personal privacy and autonomy just because they have problems.

Sneaky. Very sneaky. Mine too are extremely manipulative, and this kind of behaviour seems like an example of yours' kind of manipulation. You read like you're wise to their wiles, though. If you expose the fact that you're fully aware of what they're doing, it seems with mine that they then decide they cannot use that plot anymore. In order for it to work, the subject must be completely unaware of the device.

They've stopped the more obnoxious things like accusing me of stealing money from them or using my disability to take advantage of them or other people when I've shown that those things simply won't work, ie, not playing along with being the "bad guy" with the fake stealing charge, or not being made to feel guilty about how I "be" someone with a disability. Applies to being an aspie as well- "owning" the condition, without feeling obligated to follow someone else's rules about it. I've also over time shown them that the passive-aggressive things they've done aren't going to work- catching on that they're trying to do "under the radar" things to interfere and doing what I want/need to do anyway. In a broader sense, I find ways to make it clear that I resent what they do because they know better, and a lot would be solved just by being honest about real issues without the drama, staged crises, and solutions in need of problems. They see that I let my friends come over to help but get p*ssed at them for doing the same thing? They need to see that it's because my friends aren't judging and feeling owed the right to meddle. Their acting like my friends are high school kids goofing off tells me they know they don't have much to go on.


'My plans with my project aren't about trying to get something for nothing or pretending that a geeky hobby is a real job, it's me seeing an opportunity to do something I really enjoy and knowing there's a good chance I can make money doing it, and not having to worry about either being aspie or my physical condition getting in the way."

Good for you sir, I say. You've identified an area that gets you what you want, and accommodates your physical limitations. Carpe diem.

Thanks!



Yep. Yep yep yep. The times I have moved, I did so completely independently. I once moved everything by hand, by a bus, a train, and a 20 minute walk, at 3am to avoid interference. Other times, loaded everything into an old hatchback I had at the time and drove it all myself.

My past moves weren't taken that far, but the first two apartments the moves were done by just packing up and picking a moving day. The first apartment experience is really what's fueled the way I've done things since then- parents telling me I can't get my own place at the same time I've off looking at apartments and signing up for assistance, and acting really suprised that I went ahead despite their insistence that I couldn't move out. After moving in the first 3 or 4 months was basically a non-stop parade of uninvited acquaintances dropping in and my parents coming around, making sure I knew that it wasn't really my home. Their first visit a week or so after moving in was an inspection visit and handing me cleaning supplies to supervise my very first weekend of doing chores. And compromising all the potential hiding places in the apartment- no way they could have known about the really private things I was planning on doing when I was alone, but still somehow managing to disrupt those plans. What made it really bad was a social worker and the counselor I was seeing agreeing with my family that I needed the reality check of no privacy or free time in my own home to teach me about what being independent is really like. I moved back to my parent's house after a year, and with the second move, they fought that even more, so I got that done by having friends come by on a day my parents were at work, cleared my things out, and headed over to the apartment I had already gotten. That actually for a time made them really stop and think about *why* I was freezing them out of things, but over time, their knowledge of a little about my personal life gradually made them want to interfere more, so a lot of the meddling is more of a recent problem.

When I am living with them, I literally keep everything locked in trunks with padlocks on them, to stop them from going through my stuff. I know it's not impenetrable, but it's the unawareness thing again - if they forced the lock or the body of the trunk, I'd know, and that means they won't do so. They need to snoop without being caught, without me knowing about it, and won't outright force their way in. Every time I moved, they were never told what my address was, so they could not just turn up. Especially as they did not know my last two moves were semi-supported for people of a particular special need. They thought it was just regular housing and I needed to keep them away from my housemates, or it'd be obvious what was going on. They never even saw any of the places I was living (which was actually just as well, given some of the conditions I lived in). Being this secretive just makes them even more convinced I'm actually up to something that they need to snoop on me to find out, so I'm sort of proverbially shooting myself in the foot, but it's better than complete exposure.

I need to get the lockable trunks for my things, just so I can have things here at home without having to figure out where to stash things when they're in a snooping mood. I think a lot of my parent's meddling got worse in the recent past because for years, I too had apartments through assistance programs rather than having them help me pay for them. Making up for years of not getting to interfere they way they really wanted to. When I moved to the current apartment, they basically staged a move that played out like the move they thought I should have "experienced" years ago- lots of hassles, disorganized, things loaded into whatever vehicles were on hand, like an 18 or 19 year old leaving home for the first time rather than someone much older switching apartments. I had to be rude to them in calling them out about trying to force me to follow their plans about arranging furniture and unpacking- they were blatantly piling boxes and positioning furniture so that if I wanted to be able to maneuver my wheelchair around in the apartment sooner than later, I had to arrange things their way and start all the unpacking all at once. That didn't last long,since I just ignored them and let my friends move things around for me so I could start settling in that first day. They grabbed the spare key before I could hide it, but I've been able to keep them from snooping too much- and my mother especially seems really irked when she can't "find" things when she's here.

Here's hoping your work plans work out, and you can elbow them out!
I do understand that perhaps, there is a genuine element of wanting to help out and make sure we're safe and so on in their motivations somewhere (especially as I can be a bit insensible about danger) but people have to understand where the limits and boundaries are with people with disabilities. We're adults. Help sure, but don't think it's ok to completely violate someone's personal privacy and autonomy just because they have problems.


I agree, there are good intentions buried deep under all the hostility and what on the surface just look like attempts to get even for whatever past problems they won't forget. But a lot of disabled persons seem to have problems getting family or other people to respect boundaries. It's also a matter of getting them to see that people with disabilities might also have different personal lives and interests than their families. One thing I really would like to see discussed more as part of disability awareness- both physical disabilities and for AS people- is dealing with the social restrictions some people try to impose under the guise of making someone accept the reality of their condition.

Honestly it sounds like you need to prove you can be self sufficient or risk losing that freedom (if your parents can convince someone you are unable). I am sorry your parents are being this way. It makes me worry. I would be making plans to go my own way. IF they get legal power over you now it can be VERY difficult to reverse this later. Be cautious. Good luck.

Are you on SSI? If not it may be worth applying because then you would get your own money, which might help if your parents were to stop paying your apartment. It's not much but you could also apply for subsidized housing...or if you have any friends/family you could have as room-mates you could split the rent with other people. But yeah then if your parents do stop paying you won't be in as rough of a spot. Though I wonder if they actually would just stop paying, if they really are so concerned for your well-being. But yeah moving back in with them does not sound like it would be good for you.

Though if you do apply for SSI maybe try to keep your parents out of it, they might try to push their way in as payees...which would mean they would get the money and spend it on you, rather than you getting the money directly to spend as you choose. But if you're mentally competent they probably would not make you have a payee. I know when I got on SSI they considered that for me but luckily they didn't I imagine it is more effort for them so they don't want to risk wasting it on someone who's not to mentally impaired to pay bills and spend money on needs before recreation.

Aside from that you could try getting a job, but if you're too disabled to work currently then obviously that's not really an option...either way seems like if you were a bit less financially dependent on parents, they would be less able to try and interfere with you.

I've proven it enough, so it's not actual legal action being taken that I'm worried about, but riding out the meddling. Their talk of guardianship or making me relocate with them if they actual do that is just talk, but still stressful because of how casual they are about telling me how I'll just go along with it, or acting suprised that I'd object.

I still think a lot of what drives the meddling is them feeling slighted that I have plans that don't involve them- as much as they complain about helping me they seem to put an equal amount of effort into interfering in the things that prove I'm capable of being independent, and I think I'm more stressed about what short-term problems might arise as either my project comes to fruition and I start making money from that or if I find a decent job that allows me to pay for the apartment without their help- them cutting me off before I can afford to go without their help, or being pressured to look for work that doesn't pay enough for me to go without their help. They don't actually oppose me being independent, but it's more about them assuming they were going to always be involved and assuming whatever I do is to spite them.

I've been on SSI for many years, and my previous apartments were under housing assistance, so for most of the years I've lived on my own, my parents were only helping with food. Most of the tension between myself and them has been about what they perceived as the lack of accountability or supervision- overall supportive of the idea of me having my own place, but always bothered that I have too much free time and making a big deal about my disinterest in housecleaning. They couldn't really do much then except complain when they came to visit or wonder aloud why I wasn't being evicted for housekeeping issues.

Now when I applied for SSI back in the 90s shortly after I was first in the wheelchair, I *did* have a social worker initially question why my parents weren't the payees, but I learned later that's the MO of some social workers and independent living advocates, not directly challenging someone's competency but trying to get the client to get their families involved, and I made it clear that I was an adult and didn't need anyone's permission to apply for assistance and look for my first apartment. I had some heated arguments with people over that. My parents weren't trying to legally oppose it, just harping about it and not getting it that their complaining wasn't going to stop me.

As things stand now, they can't legally do anything. They could cut me off but that would come off as petty and vindictive so I doubt they would do anything just out of spite, and they'd really have to think about it before trying to make me move in with them because of the hassle of moving my things into storage. I'm more concerned about them trying to interfere as I make moves to be more independent of them- my project has a good chance of being a success later on, and I was already looking at finding a job. Their interference would be things like treating my project work like a special interest and getting in the way of that, or else trying to make sudden changes to how they're helping where I'm forced to take a job to shut them up but that wouldn't be enough to actually allow me to be independent of them. Me having a job, of course they'd support that, but they also want me to have the experience of having a job that makes the situation worse- working but not paying enough to make a difference. Or trying to keep me too busy trying to deal with whatever changes they might impose that my project never gets anywhere.

Even they have admitted that any plans to move would take quite a while to carry out, so I do have time to do what I need to do. There would still be a huge fight even if a job and/or the project works out and I don't need their help but they still demand I go along with their plans.

I think it depends on how independent you really are, and how independent you want to be. It sounds like you may need to pushback a little if they are overstepping what you think is fair, at the risk of making them angry.
I had a therapist tell me bluntly “If you make the money and pay your bills, then 100% you get to say how you live your life, not your parents.”
I think people without disability struggle a bit with this balance too, it feels good for a parent to help and is an excuse to be close to their adult child, but it can become a problem. For instance giving when hoping to receive and getting pissed when they don’t receive what they wanted (a form of manipulation and control.) or a sort of addiction (of parent) to a need to feel needed by adult child; they become unable to separate their own identity and well being with that of the adult child. It can be unhealthy for all involved.
I was unemployed and while being employed can be scary, that was worse, and I read a lot of job books that suggested you make a list of your priorities. My number one was and still is to be financially independent so I have no one but me calling the shots! It’s awesome. Can be hard but not impossible. I try to live simply and I mess up from time to time but try to learn from it. There are people outside family always willing to help, I have found, and they are more objective and sometimes a better judge in helping me make decisions!

I have Cerebral Pasly, Asperger & Psoriasis. I lived on my own for six years, my mom paid for my rent & bills, she died, I moved in with my sister, it was a NIGHTMARE living with her. I'm living on my own again & my sister wants to control parts of my life. She is my biggest problem.

Why don't you find a Regional Center to help you.

Does your sister have any legal standing to control things or is she just mad that you're not having to answer to her?

As a matter of fact, a friend told me about an agency that has helped her that might be worth checking out. I've been leery about dealing with advocacy or assistance organizations after my past experience with a local independent living organization- I did get my first apartment through them, but it seemed like their MO was to make the process so difficult that clients would get the hint and give up, plus getting signed up with a vocational rehab program that was more focused on getting disabled persons, even those with college degrees, into menial jobs or working for free as part of a long term training program rather than helping people find real jobs. The agency my friend told me about sounds a lot better, with disabled persons working for them and knowing what client's needs are, so I'm planning on seeing what they can help me with. Plus next month I finally get tested so I might have a real diagnosis of Asperger's along with an updated diagnosis of ADHD, depression, and biploar disorder, meaning that getting treated will make it much easier to figure out what jobs would be suitable, as well as being able to not worry about getting stressed out all the time.

My sister is in charge of my trust fund, my mom left me. And she doesn't understand me, she thinks she knows me & more bad things she did. I'm getting tested on Thursday, it is a mental health exam.