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P192
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15 Jan 2018, 11:48 pm

I was diagnosed with NLD and severe ADHD-Inattentive as a kid. I went to get re-evaluated as a young adult and my IQ scores were all over the place and mostly fit the NLD pattern. I went over this with the psychologist and she kept the severe ADHD-Inattentive diagnose (and Executive Functions Disorder) but said NLD wasn't a good diagnosis for me.

Similarities-18
Vocabulary-13
Information-16
Comprehension-16
Digit Span-14
Arithmetic-13
Block Design-7
Visual Puzzles-7
Matrix Reasoning-16
Figure Weights-16
Symbol Search-10
Coding-8

Needless to say that's an enormous Verbal>Performance gap (Verbal Comp 134, Perceptual Reasoning 100) and within the Perceptual Reasoning scores there's an extreme gap between the (Block Design and Visual Puzzles-7) and (Matrix Reasoning and Figure Weights-16). The psychologist told me that the Block Design and Visual Puzzles are more strictly visual-spatial and construction skills while Matrix Reasoning and Figure Weights are "fluid reasoning" tests that are about problem solving. Furthermore, if the Figure Weights test is more than 3 points higher than Arithmetic it means that non-verbal math skills are better developed than verbal ones. On my SAT, my math score was slightly higher than reading and writing. She basically said I have a sort of production disorder- like I have a learning disorder involving breaking tasks down into smaller parts in attention to the very severe ADHD and sluggishness that comes with it. I think at a higher level than I "do". She also said that I'm intellectually gifted based on the Similarities, Comprehension, Information, Matrix Reasoning, and Figure Weights subtests with strengths in "abstract conceptual, hypothetical practical, and logical analytical reasoning". She rejected the NLD diagnosis because I did well on tests that measured understanding sarcasm, metaphors, social awareness etc. and she thinks I can read nonverbal social cues. My current doctor wants me to see an opthamologist.

I relate to many of the Asperger/NLD traits- as a kid I was early to read and do math and had narrow, obsessive interests like memorizing the world map or the US presidents (which I can still do today) and being awkward. I also memorized criminal codes and whatnot and even am sort of a "jailhouse lawyer" for people. I always had and have friends, usually outcasts like me. I dislike making eye contact unless it's for something important like a job interview. My depth perception is atrocious, I constantly lose items and my driving record isn't too good. At previous jobs it took me longer than other people learning how to wrap pallets and whatnot. I've never been interested in sports or material objects, and am only grudgingly trying to learn hands-on skills like reading a map, changing tires or repairing objects because I want to appear tougher to society. I have a lot of quirks like pacing around aimlessly, specific eating patterns, not knowing what to do with my hands in conversation, poor sleep habits and generally appearing childlike for my age (I'm 25). Like many people with NLD/AS I also struggle with depression and anxiety, and am generally very self-conscious.

In school my performance is all over the place just like in the IQ test. I would ace Neurology classes and fail English 102 for not attending class (despite being an AP English student in high school) or Spanish class because I couldn't keep up with the details. I'd get 3.7 GPA's one semester and 1.4's the next. I've never bothered to study math/science at very high levels (I majored in Psychology and History) but I generally do well there if the subject matter interests me. Does this sound like NLD/AS?

PS I may have asked this before on the forum but I don't remember. If I did then my bad.



sunshinescj
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16 Jan 2018, 5:44 pm

I don't know what it would be called exactly but I am very similar. There is a 55 point gap between my verbal and performance iq 147 to 92. I got a 5 on the block design, a 13 on matrix reasoning, and an 8 on visual puzzles (I think I got a few lucky guesses on visual puzzles though so I would assume my true score on it is a little lower) While for verbal iq I got a 19 on similarities, an 18 on vocabulary and a 16 on information. So, I very much fit the NVLD profile but my school psychologist and I don't feel that it fits either because most people with NVLD struggle in all areas of mathematics, I only had trouble in Geometry (Highly visual spatial) as shown by my score of 18 on the arithmetic subtest. I think I have ASD, especially when you take my sensory issues, reliance on routine, and stimming but alas, I am a high-functioning female so getting doctors to take me seriously is difficult; especially since I am a verbal thinker with a bit of pattern thinking mixed in as opposed to the stereotypical visual thinker. Long story short: me too, no one has a name for the purely visual/spatial deficit so I don't know what it is.



kraftiekortie
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16 Jan 2018, 8:33 pm

I have a similar profile to the OP

Except I did well with coding, and I scored like a 9 in most of the "performance" tasks.

I scored a 150 Verbal, and a 90 Performance, on an IQ test when I was 15 years old.

I'm pretty clumsy, and I don't see things which are "right in front me," to the utter frustration of my wife.



P192
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17 Jan 2018, 3:56 am

sunshinescj wrote:
I very much fit the NVLD profile but my school psychologist and I don't feel that it fits either because most people with NVLD struggle in all areas of mathematics, I only had trouble in Geometry (Highly visual spatial) as shown by my score of 18 on the arithmetic subtest.


This is me to a T. I guess if we had to describe our learning disability it would be "visual-spatial learning disability" and not "nonverbal learning disability" because the latter implies deficits in everythingnonverbal. I have a cousin and uncle who also did very poorly on the Block Design and don't seem to have NLD traits.


How do you fare socially? Reading body language? And adapting to new situations?

I'll be honest- a lot of this is just me subconsciously hoping I don't have this disorder. All the literature on NLD is extremely grim and depressing.



sunshinescj
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17 Jan 2018, 7:58 am

Ah social skills that's a million dollar question. I am definitely socially awkward, I understand figures of speech but still envision them literally, if that makes sense. I'm ok with body language I think and facial expressions too though I tend to look above or below people's eyes. Also, I can understand sarcasm most of the time and I use it quite well myself. So receptively my nonverbal communication is ok below average but ok nonetheless. Expressively, on the other hand my voice is mostly monotone and I have a sort of blank/serious look on my face the vast majority of the the time. I also only have a few friends and I tend to have obsessive interest. I'm definitely socially impaired enough for it to cause issues and make people uncomfortable but people don't tend to think I have anything like ASD so I'm not stereotypically "socially awkward" if that makes sense.



P192
Tufted Titmouse
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23 Jan 2018, 2:44 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I have a similar profile to the OP

Except I did well with coding, and I scored like a 9 in most of the "performance" tasks.

I scored a 150 Verbal, and a 90 Performance, on an IQ test when I was 15 years old.

I'm pretty clumsy, and I don't see things which are "right in front me," to the utter frustration of my wife.


That is a ridiculously high Verbal score. You must have an encyclopedia of knowledge in your head lol. Coding is a Processing Speed subtest, so I guess that would mean you're quick on your feet when you notice things around you. How do you do with things like driving, social situations, and "novel problem solving"? And higher education?

[QUOTE=sunshinescj]I understand figures of speech but still envision them literally, if that makes sense.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm guilty of this too, much more when speaking with people then reading a book.

[QUOTE=sunshinescj] So receptively my nonverbal communication is ok below average but ok nonetheless. Expressively, on the other hand my voice is mostly monotone and I have a sort of blank/serious look on my face the vast majority of the the time. I also only have a few friends and I tend to have obsessive interest. I'm definitely socially impaired enough for it to cause issues and make people uncomfortable but people don't tend to think I have anything like ASD so I'm not stereotypically "socially awkward" if that makes sense.[/QUOTE]

I notice that in most people with clinical depression (the monotone voice etc) and relate to the awkward-but-not-exceptionally part. How does driving and new situations affect you?

Also do we all agree on our "Visual Spatial Learning Disability" diagnosis? If AS is the middle ground from Neurotypical and Autism, and NVLD is the middle ground from NT and AS, I guess we're some weird middle ground from NT and NVLD.



AntisocialButterfly
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23 Jan 2018, 5:09 am

All I can say is that all these tests sound kinda terrifying... Super interesting but as soon as you tell me it's any kinda test my brain melts and all I can do is panic ahahah. I deliberately removed direct tests from our interview process at work because I am one of the top programmers in our company but anything like a test and a I fail completely ahah.



P192
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23 Jan 2018, 12:03 pm

AntisocialButterfly wrote:
All I can say is that all these tests sound kinda terrifying... Super interesting but as soon as you tell me it's any kinda test my brain melts and all I can do is panic ahahah. I deliberately removed direct tests from our interview process at work because I am one of the top programmers in our company but anything like a test and a I fail completely ahah.


Lol it's the fancy name for it that makes it scary. "IQ test" rawr. If it's any consolation, you can take as many sessions to complete it as you want, and your actual IQ isn't nearly as important as the breakdown of individual skills.



Lumi
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23 Jan 2018, 7:02 pm

I've got a 19 point difference from my main verbal and performance scores. I was under enough mental stress (like low self-esteem) nearing 21 years old. My auditory working memory was the lowest at 66 and 30 points below my verbal score.

block design- 7
matrix reasoning- 7
visual puzzles- 4

symbol search- 6
coding- 7

It was noted that my scores and achievement test results reflect the visual-spacial deficit of NLD. Could that be called a "diagnosis" for it?


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sunshinescj
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26 Jan 2018, 12:41 pm

P192 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I have a similar profile to the OP

Except I did well with coding, and I scored like a 9 in most of the "performance" tasks.

I scored a 150 Verbal, and a 90 Performance, on an IQ test when I was 15 years old.

I'm pretty clumsy, and I don't see things which are "right in front me," to the utter frustration of my wife.


That is a ridiculously high Verbal score. You must have an encyclopedia of knowledge in your head lol. Coding is a Processing Speed subtest, so I guess that would mean you're quick on your feet when you notice things around you. How do you do with things like driving, social situations, and "novel problem solving"? And higher education?

[QUOTE=sunshinescj]I understand figures of speech but still envision them literally, if that makes sense.


Yeah I'm guilty of this too, much more when speaking with people then reading a book.

[QUOTE=sunshinescj] So receptively my nonverbal communication is ok below average but ok nonetheless. Expressively, on the other hand my voice is mostly monotone and I have a sort of blank/serious look on my face the vast majority of the the time. I also only have a few friends and I tend to have obsessive interest. I'm definitely socially impaired enough for it to cause issues and make people uncomfortable but people don't tend to think I have anything like ASD so I'm not stereotypically "socially awkward" if that makes sense.[/QUOTE]

I notice that in most people with clinical depression (the monotone voice etc) and relate to the awkward-but-not-exceptionally part. How does driving and new situations affect you?

Also do we all agree on our "Visual Spatial Learning Disability" diagnosis? If AS is the middle ground from Neurotypical and Autism, and NVLD is the middle ground from NT and AS, I guess we're some weird middle ground from NT and NVLD.[/quote]
I don't drive because I also have Cerebral Palsy and it gives me a significant startle reflex along with making me wheelchair-bound. New situations that I'm in control of are ok otherwise less so.



sunshinescj
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26 Jan 2018, 12:48 pm

Lumi wrote:
I've got a 19 point difference from my main verbal and performance scores. I was under enough mental stress (like low self-esteem) nearing 21 years old. My auditory working memory was the lowest at 66 and 30 points below my verbal score.

block design- 7
matrix reasoning- 7
visual puzzles- 4

symbol search- 6
coding- 7

It was noted that my scores and achievement test results reflect the visual-spacial deficit of NLD. Could that be called a "diagnosis" for it?

Yes, it could as there is no official DSM or ICD diagnosis, so it's just based on IQ breakdown.