A question for INTJs

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Hello there INTJ aspies! I know there are a lot of you; in fact, it seems to be the most common MB type for aspies. But I'm a bit puzzled by this and was curious to get your input. I'm puzzled by why the N (intuition) is so common, rather than the S (sensing). Why are there not more ISTJs here?

From ISTJ and INTJ: A Guide To Their Similarities And Differences:

The main difference between [ISTJ and INTJ] is the way they take in information. The S in ISTJ stands for Sensing, meaning they pay increased attention to information that comes in through their five senses (“What can I see, hear, touch, taste, and smell?”); they focus on what is actual, present, real, and current ...

INTJs, on the other hand, use iNtuition. This means they pay increased attention to the meaning and patterns behind the information they get. They look more at the big picture than the details, and they remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts about what happened.

And here is an article that talks about how mistyping of INTJs can occur with those who are really ISTJs. Here's a snippet from that article:

Some Facts About ISTJs:
– They are down-to-earth and outwardly matter-of-fact.
– They absorb and place importance on proven facts, which they can recall swiftly.
– They tend to be hard-working and responsible.
– They have a respect for history and traditions.
– They enjoy tried-and-true techniques.
– They focus on what already exists and prefer to deal with concrete realities, facts, and examples.
– They form future forecasts based on what they’ve learned through personal experience.
– They are considered the most practical of all the introverted types (according to Isabel Briggs Myers research in her book Gifts Differing)
– They thrive on routine and like to know what to expect.
– They are often described as “conservative”, “practical” or “level-headed”.

Some Facts About INTJs:
– They are driven by an inner vision of how things could play out in the future
– They focus on potential and deal with abstract concepts, symbols, archetypes, and ideas.
– They are determined to discover and pioneer new roads and unveil new research. The tried-and-true technique bores them.
– They tend to find the routine and the practical day-to-day aspects of life mundane.
– They keep a constant eye on the big picture and are less aware of all the details.
– They are very strategic and can easily piece clues together.
– They see underlying patterns and clues that help them to determine a future forecast.
– They are often referred to as “visionary” or “grandiose”.

Focusing on details (ISTJs do this), and pattern recognition (INTJs do this), seem to both be recognised aspects of autism, but I would have thought the detail-orientated side of things would be more prevalent. Also literal-mindedness, which the second article attributes more to ISTJs than INTJs - I thought was quite common in aspies.

So, basically my question is: Regardless of the result you have gotten from taking MBTI tests, do you resonate more with the description of an INTJ than an ISTJ? And anything you'd like to elaborate on in this regard would be great. Thanks!

Hey,

I've always actually thought myself as an 'INFJ' but facts you have listed,i seem to be a mixed bag between the two.

I was drug addicted 25yrs plus and clean 3yrs now,so i had blinkers on.

And i had more 'sense' 3yrs ago from a spiritual awakening.

All the same,all i see is a 'label'.

INTP here.

In fact I used to test as ISTJ in the past - when I was just starting my adult life, were full of anxiety, couldn't deal with life and when everyone had big expectations towards me. I were so rule bound back then because I was totally afraid of breaking any rules and trying anything unknown. I didn't know what to do, I had no help and everyone was just telling me to "grow up". As a copy mechanism I developed a routine I wouldn't change no matter what, to protect myself from making any mistakes and getting scolded. And becoming a shut-in made my sensory issues much worse. It ended with me getting the ASD diagnosis.

However after I finally understood what is wrong with me, got accepted by my family and were allowed to be true who I am, not who they expected me to be INTP become pretty visible (just like it was back in middle and high school, when I also was accepted). I wonder if I would still get ASD diagnosis if I tried to be tested now(I didn't get the diagnosis when I first tested as 17yo) but I still have a lot of traits - sensory issues, difficulties with social interaction, executive functioning problems and being somehow delayed (I seem like 16-19yo despite being 29 and have just as much life experience as I seem). Actually I wonder if I could be in fact an ENTP.

What makes me believe I am INTP, not ISTJ?

- I am pretty much all over the place. I don't have a plan of day and I rarely do any list, unless it is really needed (I have to do important shopping and I am afraid I might forget the thing - usually I just go to a shop and buy whatever). I constantly scan the environment for ideas what to do next or what to think about. (Ne)
- I have little patience towards routine and mundane tasks - I would rather stay all day long obsessively researching something interesting, even if not practical. (Ti-Ne, teritary Si)
- I loathe tradition - I hate traditional events, I am not religious, I go against stereotypical gender roles and I don't like meting my family. In fact I moved out a while ago to a big, modern city(as the first one in my whole family) and I am not planning to go back. I dislike the city I were raised in, although it gives me the feelings of nostalgia. (Ne-Si struggle)
- My way of working in not methodical, unless by methodical you mean "figure it out and use trial and error method if you can't". Usually I don't even know what the result will be when I start creating something. I decide what to do next after each step. (Ne-Ti)
- I am constantly thinking how something could change, how to fix something, how to make it better. I am not fine with "tested and true". I need to analyze it anyway and agree with it or make it better. (Ti-Ne)
- My problem solving is Macgyver style - look around and use whatever is available to do the impossible. I am very creative in that. I don't need tools or manual (well, manual can be useful if I just don't have time for reinventing the wheel or can't risk messing up - but I will still analyze every step and do whatever I think makes most sense in the end, even if it goes against the manual suggestion). (Ne-Ti)
- I lack understanding of people and I am very direct in my communication, especially when excited about something, which tends to hurt people - but I am quite caring and people can see that, because I am always ready to help. (Ti babysitting an inferior Fe)
- I am pretty expressive and I feel other people emotions (although it isn't an reliable skill) more than I feel my own. (tertiary/inferior Fe)

The only thing that bothers me though is my strong Si. I have really good, nearly photographic memory and I can literally walk in my house with eyes closed - I will see everything I touch and the area around it. Such abilities amaze me. It feels almost supernatural "How the hell I am able to do that!?". Especially when I compare it with the times when I cannot make any sense about the world due to sensory overload.
And the fact my Ne were underdeveloped.
But it's not impossible to have overdeveloped tertiary function - it's the result of dom-ter loop which is one of 2 kinds of possible type disorders in MBTI theory (the other one is inferior grip). So it doesn't make me ISTJ. ISFJ would be closer hit, but my Ti is way too strong and my Fe way too weak for that.


My conclusion is:

MBTI types were made for NTs without any personality or developmental disorders.
People with any of those need to be aware of the type disorders:

Dom-ter loop aka extreme introversion or extroversion(depending if you are I*** or E***).

Dom and ter function, being both introverted (or extroverted) work together against 2nd, extroverted (or introverted) function. It seems like the person has little contact with the outside world and refuses any new information/experience (in case of looping introverts) or seems to lack any analysis/higher thinking, jumping from one experience to another (in case of looping extroverts). Usually related to anxiety, depression etc.
I experienced it back when I tested as ISTJ. I was overly dependant on true and tested and was afraid of trying anything new (Si against Ne) because it was dangerous when I were an "adult" that by definition is supposed to deal with everything without the help of parents (Ti conclusion based on Si knowledge).

Inferior grip, aka stack reverse:

Dom loses control over inferior. The person acts as very bad case of the type with reversed order (ISTJ = Si Te Fi Ne, reverse = Ne Fi Te Si = ENFP; INTP=Ti Ne Si Fe, reverse = Fe Si Ne Ti = ESFJ; INTJ=Ni Te Fi Se, reverse = Se Fi Te Ni = ESFP). Usually related to events that break all copy mechanisms.
In my case it happens when I meltdown. All of sudden I start caring about what other people think and feel and about the wellbeing of the group and for everyone to be happy and I want to kill myself because I am painfully aware I am the one breaking the harmony and a good for nothing that will never be a true part of a group and that I should just disappear to make everyone happy.

ASD traits indeed seem to have a lot in common with ISTJ type. But when you subtract the symptoms of disorders you can peek into the real type thats either in the loop, grip or even both.

I find your question, test and analysis interesting.

I am ISFJ-T and regardless of the test (...which is recognised to be a particularly accurate test, however) I think I tend to observe and memorize a lot details, but without doing it on purpose/actively AND I can't help analysing each detail, looking for meaning, comparing and finding patterns.

... the whole being quite energy consuming.

I've evaluated to both INTP and INTJ when taking the MBTI test several times to see the variance when answering differently to the questions. Because I'm a scientific kind of guy.

I have nothing in common with ISTJ. Sure, i use tried-and-true stuff, but i also look for easier ways to do thing, for example the best known way to make fire in the bush would be the bowdrill fire, but i've created a better way to do it that generates an ember faster, i got smoke almost immediately. I would not want to work hard in a survival situation, so i try to invent things and learn technologies to save calories if i ever get into one.

*curious*

PM.

Even though it's an old and well-used test, I'm guessing the labels don't match the test questions very well in that regards? I mean, there's plenty of test-retest reliability, so we may test out as a certain type pretty consistently and the broader descriptions for each of the 16 types may be pretty good. But I've always considered the S/N the weakest dichotomy of the four. Maybe those two aren't well-named.

This is an interesting question (for me). I first took the MBTI back in 1990. At the time, I was "classified" as an INTJ. Each time I have taken the assessment (since then), I got the same result. However, I was never quite convinced whether the iNtj was "accurate" (whatever that means), because the iStj (in certain circumstances) better describes my tendencies.

In fact, this one endeavor (of figuring out whether I was really an iNtj or an iStj) became somewhat of an obsession of mine. I read books (actually, studied sections from Please Understand Me and other related books for hours on end) and anything else I could on this topic. This obsession of mine (to better understand what makes me "tick") took a turn, when I learned about Asperger's (and then, that became my obsession). Fortunately, for me, now that I better understand myself, I can now target those obsessions to other things.

Does it has something to do with farting?
I also find the bow method highly ineffective and I don't think I could make fire that way. I would rather look for a piece of glass or some kind of transparent stone and try creating fire using the sunlight. It can really create smoke almost immediately. But its too obvious, surely it isn't what you mean. And what if you can't find any glass like stuff around? (Not like it's easy to find proper materials to build a bow in a forest either if you ask me, the grass will easily tear).
But perhaps there is some different method. I wonder if you can find any highly flammable substances in the forest? There are all kinds of gases in wet areas and some create light, so it could be possible to use them to make fire.
Or perhaps there would be a way to create a thunderstorm and make it hit nearby?
Oh, wait. How about potato and some cables? That would work!
Hell with that. I will just disassemble my mobile phone and use it's battery on some dry leaves. It will work, right? Or not really? Perhaps using some wet grass would help with that.
^ INTP approach.

A random piece of broken glass wouldn't work. It would have to be shaped like a convex lens.

But a piece of cardboard with a pinhole (like in a pinhole camera) punched in it might conceivable work to start a fire.

A random one wouldn't. But if the one I found didn't I would try to break it into smaller pieces, hoping one of them would have a better shape. There were some forest fires caused by glass bottles left by some drunkards so it should be possible.

The pinhole is something worth a try, but I doubt the light coming out would be strong enough to start a fire. I could be wrong, I didn't do any research on that: I only played with pinhole camera during a solar eclipse and even then I ended up adding some lenses from my old telescope soon for better focus because a mere pinhole wasn't effective enough. The thing I made was strong enough to show sunspots (the image projected was almost 1 meter wide) and certainly would start a fire if I placed a piece of paper at the right distance for long enough. Not like I tried doing it.

How about placing a piece of broken glass with the right shape near the pinhole (and perhaps another one near the area where the light focuses afterwards)? It would probably have highest chance for success. Assuming the sunlight is available, of course.

I've taken the Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) test around 20 times over the past 20 years. Years ago, I even bought 2 different books which discussed the 16 MBTI personality types, what they mean, and how you could better interact with other people by knowing their "type." I always found it very interesting. I guess it's been a sort of "special interest"

Up until about 10 years ago, I ALWAYS tested as an ISTJ. In more recent years when I've taken it, I was testing as either an INTJ, INFJ, or INFP. But the last time I took it (a few months ago) I was back at ISTJ. The "I" seems the only consistent thing for me.

So, even though I had tested as an INTJ for a few years, I think I have always resonated more with the ISTJ description you provided.

The best way to find out the differences is to look up Ni vs Si. Ni is the least common dom trait, Si is the most common. Furthermore, there are some other types that may confuse themselves.

INFJ/INTJ
------
-They lead with the same dom trait
-Both INFJ and INTJ are future oriented with a large world vision
-INFJs are more expressive with emotions, INTJs appear like robots
-INFJs don't stress the facts, INTJs are very factual

INFP/INTJ-ISTJ
-----------------
-All appear as emotionless (due to them having Fi)
-INFPs have Fi-Si whereas ISTJs have Si-Fi, so they can seem similar
-INTJs and ISTJs are more factual and punctual, whereas INFPs don't stress it
-INFPs are surprisingly more judgmental, but are more likely to keep it to themselves

INTP/INTJ
-----------
-Both are logical and like to stay to themselves and care little for tradition
-INTPs are less in touch with their emotions, though INTJs aren't really in touch either
-INTPs form an opinion and then analyse, INTJs do the opposite
-INTPs are more near-future oriented (Ti-Ne), INTJs are far future oriented (Ni-Te)