... tried to distance himself from Nazi policies
24 Oct 2018, 4:37 pm
... tried to distance himself from Nazi policies and was never held accountable
"https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/27/asperger-cal-historian-exposes-the-nazi-era-doctor-who-sent-kids-to-their-deaths/#comments"
"https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/19/world/europe/hans-asperger-nazis.html"
"https://pastebin.com/GgbBDtGe"
"http://www.aspergerschildren.com/"
"https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642?crid=1G2SK93S89D4E&keywords=asperger%27s+children&qid=1540414220&sprefix=Asperger%27s%2Caps%2C455&sr=8-1&ref=sr_1_1"
So we got Frank, Frick, Jodl, Kaltenbrunner, Keitel, von Ribbentrop, Göring, and others, and then there was Eichmann.
If Asperger were still breathing, US DOJ and Interpol would be hunting him. There is no Statute of Limitations on War Crimes or Crimes Against Humanity. The Simon Wiesenthal Center helped to make this so.
And no, he would not get to use any cyanide capsule.
He would get what he had coming:
"https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/hangmans-noose-real-frayed-rope-isolated-on-white-picture-id487507742
At least maybe now, people can start to think and see that this Autism-Asperger's self-identification and advocacy fad for what it is, child abuse and self abuse at every level.
And so maybe now we can start to prosecute some of our own abuser doctors, like this Lynn Kern Koegel at the University of California.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9vlBtbji8"
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQ0R6pSFGE"
And then this trans-cranial magnet zapper, Alvaro Pascual-Leone.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvUgFoHsEmU"
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBBDiGvupFw"
Richard_the_-Dogged
24 Oct 2018, 7:27 pm
And so maybe now we can start to prosecute some of our own abuser doctors, like this Lynn Kern Koegel at the University of California.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9vlBtbji8"
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQ0R6pSFGE"
And then this trans-cranial magnet zapper, Alvaro Pascual-Leone.
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvUgFoHsEmU"
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBBDiGvupFw"
Richard_the_-Dogged
I disagree with your first statement in my quote, but I saw that episode of super nanny and had to shut it off it made me so mad and uncomfortable. Lynn Kern Koegel, I would wholeheartedly agree is a child abuser, and evil.
_________________
Diagnosed autistic level 2, ODD, anxiety, dyspraxic, essential tremors, depression (Doubted), CAPD, hyper mobility syndrome
Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia
24 Oct 2018, 8:28 pm
Taking a disability label exonerates perpetrators. This seems to be what most of those self identifying as autistic seem to want.
It is less painful than the truth.
Richard_the_Dogged
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
24 Oct 2018, 9:03 pm
It is less painful than the truth.
Richard_the_Dogged
I really need the disability label, due to
Intense struggle with school, that even with a lot of support I still end up getting nowhere. Without access to any accommodations I would of dropped out long before now, even now I feel really discouraged.
Really severe sensory processing disorder, even with sensory tools I end up with a lot of meltdowns and until I was about twelve they were daily. That is really scary, ya know? Especially when everyone thinks you are misbehaving and you self harm during meltdowns.
I also have trouble with basic life skills and time management. Not to mention constantly accidentally hurting myself.
And while truly horrible "Treatments" exist, that isn't all there is. I went through OT, talk therapy with an autism specialist, and hippotherapy and found all extremely helpful. I also see autism as a natural and normal thing, but the fact is, the entire world isn't going to become manageable at the drop of a hat.
I plan to become a clinical psychologist as an autistic person, and will do all I can to stop abuse in all settings, but removing the only way to get supports, the label, when so many people need the supports to get by isn't the answer.
_________________
Diagnosed autistic level 2, ODD, anxiety, dyspraxic, essential tremors, depression (Doubted), CAPD, hyper mobility syndrome
Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia
24 Oct 2018, 9:13 pm
Intense struggle with school, that even with a lot of support I still end up getting nowhere. Without access to any accommodations I would of dropped out long before now, even now I feel really discouraged.
Really severe sensory processing disorder, even with sensory tools I end up with a lot of meltdowns and until I was about twelve they were daily. That is really scary, ya know? Especially when everyone thinks you are misbehaving and you self harm during meltdowns.
I also have trouble with basic life skills and time management. Not to mention constantly accidentally hurting myself.
And while truly horrible "Treatments" exist, that isn't all there is. I went through OT, talk therapy with an autism specialist, and hippotherapy and found all extremely helpful. I also see autism as a natural and normal thing, but the fact is, the entire world isn't going to become manageable at the drop of a hat.
I plan to become a clinical psychologist as an autistic person, and will do all I can to stop abuse in all settings, but removing the only way to get supports, the label, when so many people need the supports to get by isn't the answer.
I agree with what you said.
Richard.....what about non-verbal autistics as an example? This will essentially remove support from all those who do not have a co-morbid intellectual disability, such as myself, and everyone who knows me personally knows that there is no way I could function independently, no matter how much I have tried to do so. I have some severe sensory issues, and mentally I don't feel I have progressed at all since I was 15/16, even though I'm 25 now. I still feel like a child inside my mind, I still act like a child, I still have meltdowns, I still have self-destructive behaviours, I can't look after myself properly in terms of hygiene (I dislike how water feels on my body, and I honestly just completely forget to wash. It does not occur to me to keep myself clean at all. My mother has to tell me to do it), nutrition (I can't cut or peel foods without injuring myself, for example, and I have terrible timekeeping and have set fire to the kitchen in the past), social situations (I have selective mutism and so only talk to my parents, briothers, my mums brother and my mums parents. The only other people I talk too are 2 friends who I have known for 12+ years). I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea that if the label was removed, I'd have no support, not just from a health and care perspective, but also it would result in my parents not supporting me properly as there would be no way for them to understand or accept my behaviour.
_________________
Take car. Go to mum's. Kill Phil, grab Liz, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
AQ-49 of 50
EQ-7 of 60
RDOS:
Neurodiverse (Aspie) score is 183 of 200.
Neurotypical (Non-autistic) score is 31 of 200
INTJ-T Personality type
envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,026
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria
25 Oct 2018, 11:16 am
(some potentially offensive content has been removed)
_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?
my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/
25 Oct 2018, 11:37 am
It is less painful than the truth.
Are you trying to revive the long-discredited "Refrigerator Mom" hypothesis?
Of course abusive treatments will make things worse for the child, but are not the cause of autism. Child abuse tends to cause other problems, such as PTSD and personality disorders, whose manifestations may overlap with autism -- and which may co-occur with autism -- but are not the same thing. Autism entails innate neurological oddities.
EDIT: An earlier version of this thread contained (perhaps in a subsequently deleted message?) a link to a book by Sami Timimi, who does have some interesting ideas. See the Psychology Today article Sami Timimi on ADHD, Autism and Children's Mental Health and the Wikipedia entry on Sami Timimi.
_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)
25 Oct 2018, 4:08 pm
The Refrigerator Mother hypothesis has never been discredited. Though I will admit that it is far too simplistic.
The reason autism advocates do not talk about it anymore is that the major autism advocacy groups exist only to defend parents.
The idea that parents cause autism is supported by Tony Humpries and his article is printed in the Irish Examiner, and it is posted and discussed on this very forum.
Of Sami Timimi and his book, Myth of Autism, it is very good. He and his two co-authors are adamant, "Autism does not exist."
And then of course we then have the corollary that Refrigerator Parents could not be causing autism, as there is no such thing.
But this does not mean that the difficulties a child may be having are not being greatly compounded by the hatred a parent is directing at them.
I actually find much value in:
https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Aut ... ing+autism
While Nadesan does take strong objection to the Refrigerator Mother Hypothesis, she still does go on at length about what she calls "biolooping". What she seems to mean is simply that what we are calling autistic is simply the natural defensive responses of a child who is living in a hostile environment.
Was there anything "different" about this child in the first place? Nadesan says yes there is, but we have no way of ever knowning what that is. We cannot simply isolate it to genetics. As she sees it, and as I agree, what we are talking about is entirely socially created. It could never have existed without the move to have universal schooling. And it never could have existed without the Eugenics Movement.
That lab at Yale which has figured so highly in the lives of so many, that was started by someone deeply committed to eugenics.
Now about this issue of disability labels, I find another book by Sami Timimi to have been most valuable.
https://www.amazon.com/Re-Thinking-Auti ... ami+timimi
They look at it from both sides. In an airport in a foreign country a mother claims it for her son, it solves a whole bunch of problems. But does she really support the idea, no!
So people have talked about needing special services in order to get through school, and then there could be the issue of various sorts of therapy or treatments, or just in general economic support for living.
Well, everyone who feels that they need such should get that. It should not be dependent upon making some kind of a damaging claim, upon playing along with an abusive system.
In a video John Elder Robison says of autistics living with neurotypicals, "They don't owe you an accommodation." Well, Robison is dead wrong on that and on a bunch of other issues. It is just the screwy and hated filled world he grew up in which has determined his world view. And his identification with Asperger's Syndrome is just another component of this screwy world view.
Thinking about this last night, I feel that autism is an experience. That is, there is zero evidence that there is any disorder, difference, or disability. But what we have are people who are being treated with hatred and contempt. More often than not this has started in the home, and then it also continues with school teachers and the school systems white coats. And then it is in the peer culture, the abusive situations which are set up on the play ground, and then in work places. And the worst actor in it are these doctors themselves, trying to cure us.
And so this Steve Silberman tries to make this "neurological difference" into a badge of honor. And he lionizes Hans Asperger.
https://www.amazon.com/Neurotribes-Lega ... eurotribes
But today we see that again, Asperger is inseparable from the Nazi eugenics movement. He sent thousands of children to be euthanized. Other people who did things like that were sent to the gallows, as Asperger should have been.
We who identify with the autism / aspergers experience should be organizing on the basis of our strengths, instead of helping those who want to label us. And we should be organizing and fighting back with all means available, because it is our very lives which are being threatened.
I do not agree with William Stillman, because he earns his living by pandering to parents.
https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Autism-Look ... m+stillman
But he does say some interesting things. He sees autism as being primarily about mystical abilities.
Now that is interesting, because I had thought about this years earlier. if I were to select someone to use as the proto autistic, it would be the character Simon in Lord of the Flies. He ends up being the first boy to be killed by Jack and his pig hunters. Simon had entered an open place in a thicket of bushes and was communing with nature. Then Jack and his band broke in. Simon had always been portrayed as being extremely sensitive and reserved.
So I say something now I have never read anywhere. There is a broad range of temperament in people, and we will never really know why this is so. But I believe that in primitive societies the one who shows the tendencies which we call autistic, they will be the one made into a shaman.
And from a book read decades ago about primitive societies and their religions, they say that people watch closely for evidence of such mystical abilities in the children. One who shows such is removed from the peer group socialization. They are placed into the care of a non-parental adult shaman. And whereas the path to adulthood for the normals is fairly short, triggered by puberty, the path to adulthood for the shaman is actually much longer and more risky. Likely it will involve vision quests and the connection to totem spirits and much more. It could go on, say up to the age of 30, before they are considered an adult, an adult shaman. And it happens without exposure to peer group socialization.
Richard_the_ Dogged
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
25 Oct 2018, 4:33 pm
The reason autism advocates do not talk about it anymore is that the major autism advocacy groups exist only to defend parents.
The idea that parents cause autism is supported by Tony Humpries and his article is printed in the Irish Examiner, and it is posted and discussed on this very forum.
Of Sami Timimi and his book, Myth of Autism, it is very good. He and his two co-authors are adamant, "Autism does not exist."
And then of course we then have the corollary that Refrigerator Parents could not be causing autism, as there is no such thing.
But this does not mean that the difficulties a child may be having are not being greatly compounded by the hatred a parent is directing at them.
I actually find much value in:
https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Aut ... ing+autism
While Nadesan does take strong objection to the Refrigerator Mother Hypothesis, she still does go on at length about what she calls "biolooping". What she seems to mean is simply that what we are calling autistic is simply the natural defensive responses of a child who is living in a hostile environment.
Was there anything "different" about this child in the first place? Nadesan says yes there is, but we have no way of ever knowning what that is. We cannot simply isolate it to genetics. As she sees it, and as I agree, what we are talking about is entirely socially created. It could never have existed without the move to have universal schooling. And it never could have existed without the Eugenics Movement.
That lab at Yale which has figured so highly in the lives of so many, that was started by someone deeply committed to eugenics.
Now about this issue of disability labels, I find another book by Sami Timimi to have been most valuable.
https://www.amazon.com/Re-Thinking-Auti ... ami+timimi
They look at it from both sides. In an airport in a foreign country a mother claims it for her son, it solves a whole bunch of problems. But does she really support the idea, no!
So people have talked about needing special services in order to get through school, and then there could be the issue of various sorts of therapy or treatments, or just in general economic support for living.
Well, everyone who feels that they need such should get that. It should not be dependent upon making some kind of a damaging claim, upon playing along with an abusive system.
In a video John Elder Robison says of autistics living with neurotypicals, "They don't owe you an accommodation." Well, Robison is dead wrong on that and on a bunch of other issues. It is just the screwy and hated filled world he grew up in which has determined his world view. And his identification with Asperger's Syndrome is just another component of this screwy world view.
Thinking about this last night, I feel that autism is an experience. That is, there is zero evidence that there is any disorder, difference, or disability. But what we have are people who are being treated with hatred and contempt. More often than not this has started in the home, and then it also continues with school teachers and the school systems white coats. And then it is in the peer culture, the abusive situations which are set up on the play ground, and then in work places. And the worst actor in it are these doctors themselves, trying to cure us.
And so this Steve Silberman tries to make this "neurological difference" into a badge of honor. And he lionizes Hans Asperger.
https://www.amazon.com/Neurotribes-Lega ... eurotribes
But today we see that again, Asperger is inseparable from the Nazi eugenics movement. He sent thousands of children to be euthanized. Other people who did things like that were sent to the gallows, as Asperger should have been.
We who identify with the autism / aspergers experience should be organizing on the basis of our strengths, instead of helping those who want to label us. And we should be organizing and fighting back with all means available, because it is our very lives which are being threatened.
I do not agree with William Stillman, because he earns his living by pandering to parents.
https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Autism-Look ... m+stillman
But he does say some interesting things. He sees autism as being primarily about mystical abilities.
Now that is interesting, because I had thought about this years earlier. if I were to select someone to use as the proto autistic, it would be the character Simon in Lord of the Flies. He ends up being the first boy to be killed by Jack and his pig hunters. Simon had entered an open place in a thicket of bushes and was communing with nature. Then Jack and his band broke in. Simon had always been portrayed as being extremely sensitive and reserved.
So I say something now I have never read anywhere. There is a broad range of temperament in people, and we will never really know why this is so. But I believe that in primitive societies the one who shows the tendencies which we call autistic, they will be the one made into a shaman.
And from a book read decades ago about primitive societies and their religions, they say that people watch closely for evidence of such mystical abilities in the children. One who shows such is removed from the peer group socialization. They are placed into the care of a non-parental adult shaman. And whereas the path to adulthood for the normals is fairly short, triggered by puberty, the path to adulthood for the shaman is actually much longer and more risky. Likely it will involve vision quests and the connection to totem spirits and much more. It could go on, say up to the age of 30, before they are considered an adult, an adult shaman. And it happens without exposure to peer group socialization.
Richard_the_ Dogged
My mother never withheld warmth or affection from me, so that's a load of bollocks.
All these conspiracies stating that autism is not real, I don't buy it. It's like saying vaccines caused autism. It's just used by a select few so they can sell their books, and people like yourself are falling for it.
_________________
Take car. Go to mum's. Kill Phil, grab Liz, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
AQ-49 of 50
EQ-7 of 60
RDOS:
Neurodiverse (Aspie) score is 183 of 200.
Neurotypical (Non-autistic) score is 31 of 200
INTJ-T Personality type
25 Oct 2018, 4:41 pm
What Sami Timimi and his coauthors are saying is "Autism does not exist".
https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medi ... +of+autism
And strongly related I feel is Alice Miller, talking about infliction of the Narcissistic Wound, a parent using the child to fill their own needs.
https://www.amazon.com/Drama-Gifted-Chi ... fted+child
25 Oct 2018, 5:04 pm
https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medi ... +of+autism
And strongly related I feel is Alice Miller, talking about infliction of the Narcissistic Wound, a parent using the child to fill their own needs.
https://www.amazon.com/Drama-Gifted-Chi ... fted+child
I just said that I was not deprived of affection as a child, so I don't understand how it's possible that the Refrigerator Mother theory can be applied to all cases of autism.
_________________
Take car. Go to mum's. Kill Phil, grab Liz, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
AQ-49 of 50
EQ-7 of 60
RDOS:
Neurodiverse (Aspie) score is 183 of 200.
Neurotypical (Non-autistic) score is 31 of 200
INTJ-T Personality type
25 Oct 2018, 5:07 pm
My mom was amazing, not perfect for sure, but she has five kids, my dad died when I was very little, and we all have things going on.
I'm the one that refused warmth you could say, I didn't let anyone touch me unless I had a very high fever, and liked to keep to myself. She had nothing to do with that.
I showed signs of being autistic from infancy, especially the sensory possessing part of it.
_________________
Diagnosed autistic level 2, ODD, anxiety, dyspraxic, essential tremors, depression (Doubted), CAPD, hyper mobility syndrome
Suspected; PTSD (Treated, as my counselor did notice), possible PCOS, PMDD, Learning disabilities (Sure of it, unknown what they are), possibly something wrong with immune system (Sick about as much as I'm not) Possible EDS- hyper mobility type (Will be getting tested, suggested by doctor) dysautonomia
25 Oct 2018, 5:12 pm
Refrigerator Mother was always an overly simplistic idea.
Not deprived of affection does not mean that a parent is not using the child, exploiting them. The middle-class lives in Bad Faith anyway.
And then still none of this provides any reason why we should ever say that there is such a thing as autism or aspergers. Rather, there is a wide range of temperament in people, and schools, peer groups, and work places can be extremely hostile and abusive. Convincing a child that they have some difference, disorder, or neurological difference is extremely abusive.
Rather than collaborate with those who want to stigmatize us, we should be fighting back, and be fighting at all possible levels.
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
25 Oct 2018, 5:17 pm
I'm the one that refused warmth you could say, I didn't let anyone touch me unless I had a very high fever, and liked to keep to myself. She had nothing to do with that.
I showed signs of being autistic from infancy, especially the sensory possessing part of it.
Refrigerator Mother always was overly simplistic. "Warmth" does not mean that a parent is not using a child. But one who does not want to be touched or shows these "signs of being autistic" is still a socially constructed interpretation. It does not mean that there is any such thing as Autism or Asperger's, or that we should ever go along with such ideas.
We should be organizing and fighting back. Our place in the world will be obtained by the ways in which we protect ourselves and others from abuse and stigmatization, not from the ways in which we support the continuation of the Nazi Eugenics Movement.
Richard
_________________
Autism-Aspergers is just a concept invented to legitimate the abuse of children and adults. Neuro-Diversity is just a way of pleading for pity. Everytime we endorse these concepts, we are further maginalizing ourselves, and encouraging child abuse. Autism-Asperger's could never even exist without Nazi Social Darwinism and Eugenics. So I no longer talk about these, I talk about lived experience, often the experience of being othered and then persecuted. I call this experience of having intelligence, insight, intuition, and mystical abilities, the Shamanic Experience. And those of us who live it need to start banding together and protecting ourselves, each other, and the children of today. Beautiful Planet, just a rotten economic and political system.
25 Oct 2018, 5:19 pm
Not deprived of affection does not mean that a parent is not using the child, exploiting them. The middle-class lives in Bad Faith anyway.
And then still none of this provides any reason why we should ever say that there is such a thing as autism or aspergers. Rather, there is a wide range of temperament in people, and schools, peer groups, and work places can be extremely hostile and abusive. Convincing a child that they have some difference, disorder, or neurological difference is extremely abusive.
Rather than collaborate with those who want to stigmatize us, we should be fighting back, and be fighting at all possible levels.
Richard
I can say with the utmost certainty that my mother didn't "exploit" me.
Because it IS different to how a NT operates. If there was no label, there would be no protections, no economic assistance, no therapeutic support, society, friends and family would view the child (and later adult) as someone who is just inherently rebellious, naughty, weird, shy, a bit dumb etc. The label exists to afford people who are affected by "autistic" traits to a severe enough degree some level of protection and assistance within society. It might not be PERFECT, but it's better than having no protection and being at the mercy of society at large.
_________________
Take car. Go to mum's. Kill Phil, grab Liz, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. How's that for a slice of fried gold?
AQ-49 of 50
EQ-7 of 60
RDOS:
Neurodiverse (Aspie) score is 183 of 200.
Neurotypical (Non-autistic) score is 31 of 200
INTJ-T Personality type
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