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hollowmoon
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13 Feb 2019, 8:31 pm

Don’t they ever get shy? Their always getting angry at me for being too quiet. And say “why don’t you talk?!” “You have an attitude because your too quiet” Don’t they ever get nervous or shy in social situations? Why do they always jump to the negative?



thewrll
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13 Feb 2019, 8:49 pm

There are a lot of nt's who get shy. You are talking to the wrong people.


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13 Feb 2019, 9:03 pm

There's plenty of NTs that are shy. Those of us on the might take the quietness to an extreme, as some of us are non verbal, but there are also some of us that are quite outgoing. The problem you're having has to do with the people you're around not just NTs as a whole.


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13 Feb 2019, 9:32 pm

I get what you’re saying. In my experience, being shy seems like the worst thing you could possibly be to a lot of people. I have also had plenty of outgoing NT’s call me out on being shy/quiet and go out of their way to make me feel uncomfortable. I’ve had plenty of non shy/outgoing people say some really nasty things to me. Shy people never say mean things to me lol.



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13 Feb 2019, 11:41 pm

I’ve noticed this too. They act like being shy/quiet is the worst trait a person could possibly have. I’ve even seen them label other NTs as “shy” if they are quiet or introverted in the slightest. Mainstream NT society seems to want to label anybody that doesn’t fit the typical extrovert, attention seeking, cookie cutter mold.



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14 Feb 2019, 2:10 am

This is just a variation on people not understanding that other people can be quite different. There are many appalling examples of unfounded assumptions and misunderstandings leading to disaster. I was once paired with another student who didn't understand topographic maps. We used a map to make a cardboard-layer model of our local hills, and he still did not understand how it worked. I thought we had been paired in hopes that he would learn about maps, but it may have been for me to learn about the impenetrability of some other heads. It took me decades more to agree with John Cleese about the rarity of rationality.



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14 Feb 2019, 2:22 am

Some people think that everyone thinks like them. They can't comprehend any other way of thinking.



EzraS
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14 Feb 2019, 3:11 am

BTDT wrote:
Some people think that everyone thinks like them. They can't comprehend any other way of thinking.


This.



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14 Feb 2019, 4:01 am

I do not think it is neurology but culture that determined these attitudes.

American culture celebrates the brash go getter, a lot of the rest of the world think Americans are rude.


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naturalplastic
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14 Feb 2019, 4:19 am

BTDT wrote:
Some people think that everyone thinks like them. They can't comprehend any other way of thinking.


Not SOME people.

EVERY one does that. You, me, everyone.

Everyone's natural tendency is to project themselves onto others. The difference is that folks in the minority are forced to accommodate the majority mindset in order to survive, while the majority can ignore the minority pov with impunity.



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14 Feb 2019, 4:47 am

naturalplastic wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Some people think that everyone thinks like them. They can't comprehend any other way of thinking.


Not SOME people.

EVERY one does that. You, me, everyone.

Everyone's natural tendency is to project themselves onto others. The difference is that folks in the minority are forced to accommodate the majority mindset in order to survive, while the majority can ignore the minority pov with impunity.


Not entirely. While it's true that we're all in a sense prisoners of our own minds, some are open-minded enough to acknowledge others' differences. For example, I'm very heterosexual, but this doesn't blind me to the fact that some people are gay, or make me try to somehow turn them straight. I may not share or even be able to imagine their orientation, but I can respect it.


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14 Feb 2019, 5:03 am

I think a large part of it is intimidation; orally fixated (Freud's term) people, realising on some level that they're damaged goods and that they can never suffice unto themselves or feel whole without permanently talking drivel to a similarly inclined person, love nothing better than to drag down those who can achieve satisfaction without making/hearing constant noise. Unfortunately, the orally fixated, in my experience, make up the majority of the population.



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14 Feb 2019, 5:06 am

I don't get shy. At least I didn't use to before my SA set in. My autism made/makes me the opposite of shy - which makes me vulnerable.

I think it's just hard for people of any neurology to understand fear of social situations if they don't fear them themselves. Just like any other phobia. The annoying woman in college yesterday was scared of rivers. (She's annoying for other reasons not for having a phobia). I'm sympathetic to that but I don't understand it.

As for people who tell introverts to get out of our shells just because we prefer one to one conversations - no, they don't understand us. They get their energy from social situations and with us it's the opposite.

NTs can't understand what it is to navigate a social world as if you're always an outsider. That isn't to say that they're never outsiders themselves though. Some NT kids have a whole term of being bullied for going to a new school. Then they learn the customs and are accepted. Autistic kids don't learn it, or it's masking, so they get bullied anyway or have other things (masking) which are bad for mental health.

Same with adults except adults are less likely to bully I think.



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14 Feb 2019, 6:07 am

Prometheus18 wrote:
I think a large part of it is intimidation; orally fixated (Freud's term) people, realising on some level that they're damaged goods and that they can never suffice unto themselves or feel whole without permanently talking drivel to a similarly inclined person, love nothing better than to drag down those who can achieve satisfaction without making/hearing constant noise. Unfortunately, the orally fixated, in my experience, make up the majority of the population.


That's a bit close to home. You have perfectly described a close family member.


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14 Feb 2019, 6:35 am

naturalplastic wrote:
BTDT wrote:
Some people think that everyone thinks like them. They can't comprehend any other way of thinking.


Not SOME people.

EVERY one does that. You, me, everyone.

Everyone's natural tendency is to project themselves onto others. The difference is that folks in the minority are forced to accommodate the majority mindset in order to survive, while the majority can ignore the minority pov with impunity.
I agree that is the case for most, if not all people.

TUF wrote:
I think it's just hard for people of any neurology to understand fear of social situations if they don't fear them themselves. Just like any other phobia. The annoying woman in college yesterday was scared of rivers. (She's annoying for other reasons not for having a phobia). I'm sympathetic to that but I don't understand it.

As for people who tell introverts to get out of our shells just because we prefer one to one conversations - no, they don't understand us. They get their energy from social situations and with us it's the opposite.

Exactly.
TUF wrote:
NTs can't understand what it is to navigate a social world as if you're always an outsider. That isn't to say that they're never outsiders themselves though. Some NT kids have a whole term of being bullied for going to a new school. Then they learn the customs and are accepted. Autistic kids don't learn it, or it's masking, so they get bullied anyway or have other things (masking) which are bad for mental health.

While I agree that NTs are more likely to m\adapt and pass, it's not universal. Some stick out and get picked on. There were 3 girls in my elementary school class that got picked on all through elementary school, and I have no reason to think they weren't NT.


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