PDA sociopathic condition related to aspergers syndrome

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poopylungstuffing
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27 Oct 2009, 1:48 am

Even Flakey thought it sounded sorta like him...
He was diagnosed with a "dependant" personality...when he was young...A lot of ASish stuff goes with him...but he is more functional and socially dynamic than me...anyway.....



pensieve
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27 Oct 2009, 1:55 am

PDA sounds like my sister. That's all I have to say.


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SBA
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19 Feb 2010, 3:22 am

nirrti_rachelle wrote:
That's no disorder. That sounds like spoiled kids who grew up with parents that let them do whatever they want. They never had boundaries or demands put on them so they never learned to take responsibility for themselves. Do we have to pathologize everything? :?


I am truly shocked and saddened that any member of this forum, let alone a moderator would write this.

You could not be more wrong about PDA. But most importantly, people on the autistic spectrum and their carers need understanding and support, however their condition presents.

PDA is especially challenging because, although the children tend to be very high functioning, some even having theory of mind, (whilst still meeting the criteria for ASD), the way to manage their behaviour is often the opposite to what one might expect in some regards. Unlike a 'classic case' of autism, aspergers or otherwise, when you find something that works, you stick to it, in PDA the path to the goalposts need to be constantly changed. This is one of the most draining aspects and families need considerable support to keep up and cope with it.

It can be hard to illustrate and appreciate this effectively without experiencing it first hand, but this is a very very real way of life for many families. To dismiss this out of hand is both unnacceptable and unsupportive of the tallest order and I am very sorry to say that have to challenge your suitability to be a moderator here.



JadedMantis
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19 Feb 2010, 4:53 am

Quote:
Would be very grateful for a link to where you have read that, for as long as it's not this dude: Digby Tantam, Malice and Asperger Syndrome, who's actually talking about AS and not PDA, and about people with AS being baby killers:
Quote:
Several features of Alice's actions often recur in malicious actions by other people with AS. Younger children may be targets, quite
often siblings. There is often an experimental explanation given and, afterwards, there is a lack of remorse or fear. The 'real'
explanation is elusive. Wing (personal communication) has suggested that the person with AS may harm others in the
furtherance of a special interest.


Well I suppose you won't want to hear from that guy call Asperger either as he also identified some malicious behaviour in some cases. The fact is that we as aspies are also human and there are variations. If an obsessive interest combines with a lack of awareness of how others feel then bad things can happen. Sometimes they do. This does not mean it happens more often with aspies than others but still fact that our behaviour seem so strange and unpredictable to NTs mean they fear that more than the cases of violence that they can understand such as jealousy etc.



Callista
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19 Feb 2010, 5:29 am

Holy necrobump, Batman!


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bdhkhsfgk
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19 Feb 2010, 5:49 am

Please, stop making these threads comparing NT's to people with AS.



JadedMantis
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19 Feb 2010, 5:50 am

Callista wrote:
Holy necrobump, Batman!


mmmm, oops you are right.



littlelion
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10 Oct 2010, 9:15 pm

tracker:
I too wonder how this is related to autism. According to the article, the symptoms are caused by a defensive reaction to stress, which can be similar to autism, but thats about it. And one could make the argument that if you change the environment to remove stress from the autistic person, any similarities would vanish. I mean, just looking at the criteria:

Difficulty with nonverbal communication:
autism: yes
PDA: no

Disinterest or difficulty in forming relationships:
autism: yes
PDA: no

Oversensitive senses:
autism: yes
PDA: no

Difficulty communicating:
autism: yes
PDA: no

Physical clumsiness:
autism: yes
PDA: no

I am afraid I just dont see any similarities other then both having anxiety as a common co-morbid condition.

hello youve obviously not done your reaserach well, i have a diagnosis of PDA

Difficulty with nonverbal communication:
autism: yes
PDA: ?
im not sure what this means!

Disinterest or difficulty in forming relationships:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
sure we have big peomblems wth this, what we do is fake so the relationship formed is never real, we are not ourselves and this is hrrible, and keeping relationships ell that rarely happens

Oversensitive senses:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
you must be joking right? id say that is one of are main difficulty especially when it comes to little touches and little sound, ie: ppl eating chewing gum bein patted on the head and bright light, we like the dark.

Difficulty communicating:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
we dont really know how to communicate and are very rarely ourself, we are though god actor and mimic other people so therefore it looks like we are good at communicating but eally we are not and you can pix up on this when we go ott when mimicing someone from tv.

Physical clumsiness:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
lots of people with PDA just like AS also have dysprexia and therefore have alot of physical clummsiness, and evern with out having dysprexia have it too



ketchupbottle
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08 Jun 2011, 7:46 pm

littlelion wrote:
tracker:

Disinterest or difficulty in forming relationships:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
sure we have big peomblems wth this, what we do is fake so the relationship formed is never real, we are not ourselves and this is hrrible, and keeping relationships ell that rarely happens

Oversensitive senses:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
you must be joking right? id say that is one of are main difficulty especially when it comes to little touches and little sound, ie: ppl eating chewing gum bein patted on the head and bright light, we like the dark.

Difficulty communicating:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
we dont really know how to communicate and are very rarely ourself, we are though god actor and mimic other people so therefore it looks like we are good at communicating but eally we are not and you can pix up on this when we go ott when mimicing someone from tv.

Physical clumsiness:
autism: yes
PDA: yes
lots of people with PDA just like AS also have dysprexia and therefore have alot of physical clummsiness, and evern with out having dysprexia have it too


so on! i am a young adult with PDA, and this all resonates with me. even though i can pick up behaviors, base myself on them, and act pretty normal a lot of the time, i never felt like there were people who felt like me until i started reading posts by aspies about how they feel and relate to people. and i think that is why it is related to autism, because even though people with pda have many strengths and difficulties that are very different from people with autism or aspergers, there is a huge similarity in that feeling of not being able to form relationships in a way that feels meaningful. actually i think that what littlelion said about faking it all the time is a really important point. i feel like as a person with pda i am just like a person with aspergers who knows how to pretend that i'm not, but i have to pretend actively all the time. i'm definitely not sociopathic--it is important to me to treat people right, but it doesn't come naturally.

i would recommend anyone with pda to take acting classes--they completely changed my life, because they gave me a whole nother level of understanding how other people think, feel, and react to each other which helped me to be more comfortable in all kinds of social situations and it taught me how to listen and make others feel more comfortable. i use my skills for manipulating people to good ends as a theatre director.



Maje
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09 Jun 2011, 4:21 am

ketchupbottle wrote:
i use my skills for manipulating people to good ends as a theatre director.


interesting :]

I have met some of your kind and they are seemingly having a lot of fun in life. When I read this thread I first thought I might have PDA, but this last sentence makes me turn, because I cant go that far, be that involved. I solely give food for thoughts and leave the responsibility to the people for making decissions themselves. I whish I had your skill sometimes, when the outcome doesnt take a good direction.

In addition I can be honest with people but most people are impossible to be honest with.



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21 Jun 2011, 8:29 pm

A lot of the descriptions of PDA seem to be focused on how to differentiate it from autism, so they leave out the ways PDA is similar to regular autism.

Difficulty with nonverbal communication:
autism: yes
PDA: yes, but milder, and more receptive than expressive

Disinterest or difficulty in forming relationships:
autism: yes
PDA: yes

Oversensitive senses:
autism: yes
PDA: yes

Difficulty communicating:
autism: yes
PDA: yes, but milder than many autistics - most PDA people are towards the higher functioning end of the spectrum

Physical clumsiness:
autism: yes
PDA: yes - in fact PDA people are more likely to be clumsy!

Both autism and PDA have a combination of social interaction problems and obsessive behavior. PDA has a different 'flavour' of obsessive behavior, though. They also appear more socially competent, but in reality their only good social skills are focused on avoiding demands. Any other form of social interaction is really difficult.

Quote:
I can't really figure out the difference between PDA and a combination of classical autism/Asperger's and oppositional defiant disorder. Can anybody who knows a difference point it out and explain it?


Well, several things. Firstly, in PDA, it's all about anxiety. Many ODD kids aren't particularly anxious, and resist demands for other reasons - PDA individuals resist demands because they're terrified of obeying them. The idea of someone else controlling their actions sends them into sheer terror.

Secondly, ODD individuals usually are pretty direct about avoiding demands, especially if they're autistic too. PDA individuals are indirect, mustering all the social skills at their disposal to try to avoid demands without seeming defiant. This is because they're generally sociable and want to get along with others, but terrified of obeying commands. If they can get you to drop the command without a fight, they'd much prefer that, whereas many ODD individuals actually want a fight.

Thirdly, ODD doesn't have the obsession with fantasy and role-playing that is also a big part of PDA (and the opposite of what you usually see in autism). PDA individuals often live out their lives playing a multitude of 'roles' - one moment they're a T-Rex, next they're the teacher, then the mailman, etc - and they seem to be at their best when playing pretend. And they often don't outgrow playing pretend like most NTs do, follow-ups with adults found that pretend and role-playing were still quite common. Many times others worry that they might be delusional because they're so insistent on their pretending.



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21 Jun 2011, 8:34 pm

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that last paragraph about roleplaying, fantasy, and pretending?



Ettina
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02 Jul 2011, 4:12 pm

Well, from what I've read, pretty much all PDA kids play pretend, and most do so far more than most kids. This is one difference from other autistics, who often don't play pretend or run 'scripts' rather than making stuff up.

And this pretend play is more intense. For example, you know how an NT kid might be crawling around pretending to be a dog, and then you offer the kid cookies and the kid immediately switches to yelling 'Cookies!' and grabbing them. Meanwhile a PDA kid might bark at you and try to grab the cookies with his/her mouth. Basically, they won't break pretend in situations where most kids would. This is where it can get confused with delusions, because most kids if you ask them intensely enough they'll break the pretend to admit that it's not real. A PDA kid probably won't.

Also, they'd start playing pretend in situations most people wouldn't. Part of this is the demand avoidance - a dog can't do schoolwork, right? But they might spend virtually all their time doing some kind of pretend, from when they wake up to when they go to bed.

And they tend not to outgrow pretend as quickly as most kids. I was still playing pretend (alone, not just when playing with a little kid) when I was 14. I've gradually replaced it with writing fiction, since I feel sad when I forget those great stories I thought up. (Which brings me to another thing - it seems like a lot of PDA individuals are creatively gifted, as writers or actors or whatever.)



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02 Jul 2011, 4:23 pm

Neuromancer wrote:
cognizant wrote:
Histrionic personality disorder. ICD-10: F60.4
Yeah, everybody is autistic... I always know that.

Don't know if anybody is autistic, but NT is a fiction. Very soon an eventual NT will be the most strange person in the planet 8O


I don't see how being neurotypical is fiction, I think it just means people who's brains function normally.



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02 Jul 2011, 4:35 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
The disorder is called "pathological demand avoidance." Adding "sociopathic condition" to the subject of your post leads me to conclude you may be trolling.

If you want to know what sociopathy really is, research antisocial personality disorder, dissocial personality disorder, or the Psychopathy Checklist–Revised (PCL–R). Pathological demand avoidance really isn't especially similar to these conditions except superficially.


lol, right? The term "pathological" is used widely in psychiatry and has nothing to do with psycho or sociopaths.



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02 Jul 2011, 4:53 pm

Ettina wrote:
Well, from what I've read, pretty much all PDA kids play pretend, and most do so far more than most kids. This is one difference from other autistics, who often don't play pretend or run 'scripts' rather than making stuff up.

And this pretend play is more intense. For example, you know how an NT kid might be crawling around pretending to be a dog, and then you offer the kid cookies and the kid immediately switches to yelling 'Cookies!' and grabbing them. Meanwhile a PDA kid might bark at you and try to grab the cookies with his/her mouth. Basically, they won't break pretend in situations where most kids would. This is where it can get confused with delusions, because most kids if you ask them intensely enough they'll break the pretend to admit that it's not real. A PDA kid probably won't.

Also, they'd start playing pretend in situations most people wouldn't. Part of this is the demand avoidance - a dog can't do schoolwork, right? But they might spend virtually all their time doing some kind of pretend, from when they wake up to when they go to bed.

And they tend not to outgrow pretend as quickly as most kids. I was still playing pretend (alone, not just when playing with a little kid) when I was 14. I've gradually replaced it with writing fiction, since I feel sad when I forget those great stories I thought up. (Which brings me to another thing - it seems like a lot of PDA individuals are creatively gifted, as writers or actors or whatever.)


Thank you, that makes more sense to me now.