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Minder
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14 May 2019, 11:03 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i pray for the over-optimistic, i pray that they managed to avoid what seems to me like an inevitable harsh slap-down by the devil named "reality." i perceive people who are either depressed now or in the past, as "sadder but wiser."

That's basically the core of my problem with the overly optimistic. I've experienced enough disappointment to know that resting your laurels on a long-shot, or even something you're not sure of and can't control, is like aiming a sling shot at your face, pulling it back and hoping it's not going to hurt when you let it go.

Depressed people sometimes encounter the opposite problem of being overly negative though, to the point that they can't see things clearly and sabotage themselves. I think it's important to be in a committed relationship with the truth.


That is how I see it, too.

Deeply pessimistic people are exhausting to be with since they'll usually complain about their situations while also denying that they can do anything about it. This makes things worse for them, since no one wants to be around someone like that.

Extremely optimistic people can also be annoying, however. They can seem dangerously out-of-touch or completely insensitive to other people's problems.

Quiet optimism (maybe in regard to personal things, like feeling confident about at least having a good day even if the world is going to crap) is best. Knowing you can handle certain things like problems on the job or at home.



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14 May 2019, 11:07 am

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i pray for the over-optimistic, i pray that they managed to avoid what seems to me like an inevitable harsh slap-down by the devil named "reality." i perceive people who are either depressed now or in the past, as "sadder but wiser."
That's basically the core of my problem with the overly optimistic. I've experienced enough disappointment to know that resting your laurels on a long-shot, or even something you're not sure of and can't control, is like aiming a sling shot at your face, pulling it back and hoping it's not going to hurt when you let it go. Depressed people sometimes encounter the opposite problem of being overly negative though, to the point that they can't see things clearly and sabotage themselves. I think it's important to be in a committed relationship with the truth.

Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal -- 2019/05/14

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14 May 2019, 11:32 am

auntblabby wrote:
Marknis wrote:
I habitually slump when I walk

please correct this before you get old and your back is permanently in a dowager's hump. there is no surgery that can fix this, so correct it now while you are still young.


One can fix bad posture. I used to slouch all the time. Reminding myself to stand or sit up straight helped. Then yoga helped even more.

People tend to look better and more confident when they are standing up straight. As I’ve already mentioned, you need to get treatment for sleep apnea if you haven’t already done so.

Poor sleep can lead to or worsen depression.


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Mm80
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14 May 2019, 11:40 am

Marknis wrote:
I truly can't handle being disliked. Whenever I am hurt verbally or physically, my mind will replay what the other person did endlessly to me even when I want it to stop. Even when other people tell me they like me, just one person telling me they don't like me tears me apart. It makes me feel like they are the correct ones while the ones who do like me are incorrect.

I can totally relate to you're post. I disagree with the *if they dont like me screw them* stance. I think as humans, particularly aspies we want to be liked. I always wanted to understand too much, why dont they like me etc. I always had this childish ideal that all people were nice deep down, probably the aspergers. But sadly with experience you learn its not the case. So the way i deal with is to ask myself if i have done something wrong to this person, maybe even ask them. If there isnt an answer maybe they have their own issues.it takes time to get there and i still struggle, but i hope you do as it sounds like you have a conscience and want to get on with people.
Thanks.michael.



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14 May 2019, 12:25 pm

I did not read this entire thread, only the first page or two some time ago, so am kind of jumping in as this topic seems to be going on and on and will probably be going on ad infinitum. Would it be okay to say I dislike a lot of people on WP, even have a visceral dislike for many of them? (Not saying I do). No, as that would hurt the feelings of a lot of these people and there would be little functional value in saying so. Therefore if I did feel this it would be functional to pretend, or, better put, to lie, to (and I do dislike this word but will use it) mask my true feelings when I respond to some of the material here. This said. in a face to face social situation, other people cannot so easily hide their feelings, if they even care to, and being liked by as many people as possible is also a survival function, and for good reason. It feels really good and happy to be liked, doesn't it? Also, if you like other people they are more likely to like you, and that will lead to basically happy results.

I will be back to maybe write more after reading the rest of the thread, and, to the OP, imo this is a really good topic in general, and especially for WP as so many people here have experienced being disliked, rejected and even bullied.



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14 May 2019, 7:28 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Marknis wrote:
I habitually slump when I walk

please correct this before you get old and your back is permanently in a dowager's hump. there is no surgery that can fix this, so correct it now while you are still young.


One can fix bad posture. I used to slouch all the time. Reminding myself to stand or sit up straight helped. Then yoga helped even more.

People tend to look better and more confident when they are standing up straight. As I’ve already mentioned, you need to get treatment for sleep apnea if you haven’t already done so.

Poor sleep can lead to or worsen depression.


I sleep with a CPAP but it doesn't totally fix the problem.



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14 May 2019, 7:35 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
Fnord wrote:
There are certain core things that everybody likes or appreciates -- a pleasant disposition, an optimistic outlook, a good sense of humor ... things like that.
Perhaps this is nit-picky, but people who are optimistic to the extent that I perceive that they're being unrealistic or hoping for a long-shot get on my nerves. I'd prefer to be in the company of those who perceive things realistically than who are unwaveringly optimistic about everything to the point that it's absurd. I think a can-do attitude might be a better substitute for an optimistic outlook when referring to universal preferences.
You're right; unrealistic optimism drives people away as much as does unrealistic pessimism. I like my cynical friends; they won't let anyone get away with that kind of crap.


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14 May 2019, 8:09 pm

Instead of just being unable to reply directly to me, I wish Fnord was unable to reply to my threads at all like another detractor of mine. He's friends with that detractor but if he found out certain things about him, this other detractor would turn his back on him.



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14 May 2019, 10:22 pm

Marknis wrote:
Instead of just being unable to reply directly to me, I wish Fnord was unable to reply to my threads at all like another detractor of mine. He's friends with that detractor but if he found out certain things about him, this other detractor would turn his back on him.


Fnord's just trying to help. We're all trying to help. We've given you lots of solutions.


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14 May 2019, 10:25 pm

It's like we're going around in circles.


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14 May 2019, 10:57 pm

when one is suffering from dysthymia, every thing on earth feels impossibly forbidding. we need to cut OP lotsa slack. we need to just listen to him patiently and non-judgmentally while he sorts this out. we need to respect his need to take this sorting out in his own time frame.



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15 May 2019, 8:27 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Marknis wrote:
Instead of just being unable to reply directly to me, I wish Fnord was unable to reply to my threads at all like another detractor of mine. He's friends with that detractor but if he found out certain things about him, this other detractor would turn his back on him.
Fnord's just trying to help. We're all trying to help. We've given you lots of solutions ... It's like we're going around in circles.
You noticed that too, eh? It's like being stuck on the same carousel for three years, or maybe it's been Groundhog Day for 1200+ times in a row.


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15 May 2019, 11:56 pm

Marknis wrote:
I habitually slump when I walk, I am very quiet, my hair has thinned out in the front, and my eyebrows make me look like I am constantly frowning. I am constantly tired because I suffer from obstructive sleep apnea so that doesn't help how my face looks at all. But I have seen men who have a constant glare on their face as well as snarl in their speech with girlfriends.

They tend to either look uninterested, look "blank", or grow a scowl on their face when I try to engage then but when another guy engages them, they light up. I hate it so much. Even though my older brother no longer gets looked at, he atleast has two decades of experience to show for while I am 30 but can't even get a f*****g coffee date.

You would do better to get yourself out of the habit of slumping. Besides it being better for body function, your bones/cartilage, and mood it would improve your image. Standing straight and tall makes you appear more confident and secure in yourself even if you don't feel that way. When you're slumped or slouching you make yourself look smaller, meek, tired/sad and less approachable. So *pokes you in the back* stand up and command space for yourself. You entirely have a right to do that, to expand your chest as If to say "I am here"'

Hair thins as we age, as long as its clean and presentable I wouldn't worry about it. A lot of people have a resting *itch face, men wear it better, so don't worry too much about that either. Being quiet is fine as long as you can be heard when you speak. It can be hard to act or appear differently than you feel but it can completely change how people perceive and treat you and when you're competing with Alpha types you really do need to "make a space" for yourself. Step with surely, standing tall, speaking clear, eyes ahead of you not on the ground - these are pretty small and simple things anyone can teach themselves to do.

I very much wanted to be noticed in the past but I was also trying to make myself invisible so I was largely left alone and when I did have interactions often were brief. Felt like I was boring, felt like I looked ugly and unappealing. I decided to make a change in my body language and I still feel pretty anxious but I've found I adopted a more sure feeling in myself as well as how others talk to me. It's not perfect but I think it would help you and your outlook on yourself.

You are going to experience rejections and times you see others seeming to have a better time with others than you, that's just life. And being an Aspie probably amplifies this, but you sure aren't alone with that. We may have to face more of this than the average but it doesn't mean it will be that way every single time. When you are able to connect it will be awesome. You'll likely value it more too because it is a bit rarer, because it has been harder to locate. You just have to hang in there and cut yourself some slack for not being on par with all these others you are seeing around you.

You give others too much power in my opinion. Those you call detractors are an example. You just seem to be putting more time an effort into thinking about other people. I mean what good does it do you besides annoy, and depress you? Other people don't matter as much as your own self expansion and improvement. If you could focus on just building yourself and ignoring all these other people, I think you'd feel better and more clear.

Mm80 wrote:
I disagree with the *if they dont like me screw them* stance. I think as humans, particularly aspies we want to be liked. I always wanted to understand too much, why dont they like me etc.

I agree. People need others to some extent, we are herd animals ultimately. Besides the "screw them if they don't like me" stance is pretty rude too. People not liking someone can be positive by being used as a catalyst to self reflect upon ones self. It can help make us better in some situations. No one other should be given the power to have their dislike rule our worth but being disliked has a place.

CockneyRebel wrote:
Fnord's just trying to help. We're all trying to help. We've given you lots of solutions.

I don't think Marknis is necessarily looking for solutions or other people's fixes as his main goal.


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16 May 2019, 12:36 am

How can I "build myself"? My mind keeps telling me everything is too late and I could never overcome the obstacles I faced with the things I wanted to be good at. I still can't play a guitar solo or complex songs despite having a guitar since 2002 and I haven't written any songs despite how I used to hope I would be a professional musician one day. I don't have any books published and I am turning 31 soon. I struggle to draw despite my age as well to the point I don't even try at all these days. I reached adulthood only because I figuratively sat around and my brain stopped growing physically before I could develop special talents.



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16 May 2019, 2:09 am

I'm not a famous scientist. Nor published author. Nor opera singer. I've composed literally one good song and it was when I was 17. And I'm not going to be an astronaut, too! :cry:
Those all are things I hoped I would become one day. No, I'm not feeling a failure. Facing everyday life challenges is interesting enough.
Career in science is a lot of hard work, I can't really do this and parenting at the same time, so I had to take a leave.
Maybe my hard sci-fi story that is slowly hatching in my mind would one day see the daylight, who knows? Even if not, it's an interesting story.

You know that owning a guitar is not enough to be a guitarist, right? The professional musicians I know practice a couple of hours every day.


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16 May 2019, 3:54 am

Marknis wrote:
I truly can't handle being disliked. Whenever I am hurt verbally or physically, my mind will replay what the other person did endlessly to me even when I want it to stop. Even when other people tell me they like me, just one person telling me they don't like me tears me apart. It makes me feel like they are the correct ones while the ones who do like me are incorrect.


Marknis what I'm going to tell you is easier said then done. But, a number of people out there are s**t. What does one do with s**t? They flush s**t down the toilet.

In other words, not everyone is going to like you no matter what you do or don't do. Just be who you are, tell the haters to eat a dick (well don't do this literally but in your head) and flush the s**t down the toilet.