How is body language a language?

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How do you say “I want a banana” with body language?

Many Aspies here do believe that body language somehow explains everything that a person is communicating, even "I want a banana", and need to understand that being able to read body language doesn't make NTs mind-readers.

Don't knock it if you don't even understand it.

In most cases body language is not an independent language unto itself, rather it is a form of metacommunication. Basically it tells the receiver in what context to interpret the verbal communication. In your example, "I want a banana" is an explicit verbal signal. If someone is pointing their finger at you while they say it, then they might be expressing frustration or anger that you haven't brought them a banana yet. If they smile and say it with their eyebrows raised, it might mean that they are happy and looking forward to eating a banana. These have the same explicit verbal information, but different implicit information communicated through body language.

useful definition:

metacommunication (Noun) - Communication that indicates how verbal information should be interpreted; stimuli surrounding the verbal communication that also have meaning, which may or may not be congruent with that of or support the verbal talk. It may support or contradict verbal communication; Communication which is implicit and not expressed in words.

We are not the only species that uses metacommunication though. A dog's play stance (also known as a "bow") is another example of metacommunication. The play stance communicates between dogs that the following behaviors (which often may resemble fighting) are intended as play and are non-aggressive.



#YourFriendlyNeighborhoodScientist

Actually, the way scientists define "language" human "body language" would not literally be classified as a language.

All animals have a communication system, but (according to current scientific orthodoxy) only humans have a communication system capable of conveying abstract ideas. And that system is speech. And thus only human speech is a true "language" (whether it used as speech or whether its put into text).

A beaver can slap its tail (have witnessed that myself when hiking- loud as a shotgun)on the water to communicate "danger" to fellow beavers. But a beaver cannot use a tail slap as a word when discussing the topic of "danger" at their meeting of the neighborhood watch. Once danger is not present then the concept of "danger" is to some degree an abstraction.

So yes human body language is more instinctive and more animal like and at least limited in its ability to express abstract ideas.

Spoken language is a true language, but kinda piggybacks onto body language.

But human body language IS a powerful means of communication. It can enhance, and it can contradict, the spoken word.

Just because it's a language doesn't mean it's capable of communicating every idea in existence.

I'd say this is an accurate representation of current definitions of the word "language". However, the historical context of how we have defined language over the years is actually pretty interesting too. The bit about it needing to be abstract is actually relatively new. We (humans) tend to continually redefine the word "language" to ensure that we are the only ones who can have it, since it was one of the early features that we as a society used to proclaim ourselves "higher" than other animals. While this antiquated way of thinking has fallen out of favor among most evolutionary biologists, the defining of language as a human-only-club remains an interesting relic of years gone by. Many noted scientists (von Frisch for example) have argued to the contrary, that non-human communication systems can convey abstract information (not that they all do, but that there are some exceptional cases). -but see, then we get into the semantics of what "abstract" really means. Take for instance the honey bee waggle dance. The dance conveys specific information about food distance, direction, and quality, and this information is given by experienced bees to inexperienced bees. These modules of information can actually be broken up into their parts and manipulated in a way similar to words in a sentence. Furthermore, this is done away from the food both temporally and spatially, and using signals that are not directly related to food or the process of finding it. Many call that sufficiently abstract to merit "language" status.

Personally, I call the whole argument semantics. The reason we define language as only human is because we want it to mean that. -but whatever we define it, it's just a definition. It doesn't change the observable behaviors themselves, just how we file them into categories in our minds to make ourselves comfortable.

...but I digress. It's not clear to me if natural plastic's "actually" was intended towards me or towards the OP. If it was to me though, I'm confused, as nowhere in my comment did I ever refer to metacommunication among non-humans as "language" unto itself, quite to the contrary. I am therefore left to assume that I was not the one being "actually"-ed

Last edited by Fern on 24 Aug 2019, 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Body language is not a language per se, it's more a closed off country club with exclusive membership.

Sign language versus nonverbal communication

You could look at the banana, then at the owner, and raise your eyebrows. You could take it, and offer it back to the owner. You could look at it and point to it, and then to your mouth.
However, body language is not a replacement for speech; it is another channel of communication in most cases. When carrying a heavy object with other people, I find it easy to direct even a team of strangers by jerking my head in the direction of a turn, etc. If I am talking to someone and they have their arms folded and are facing me squarely, I guess that they are not inclined to agree. If a woman looks at be a bit sideways, smiles, and plays with her hair, I think she finds me interesting.
The social signals of body language don't usually get translated into words; they help guide our thinking about what to do subconsiously.

My "actually" was meant for the whole assembled crowd.

Yeah, while I was writing that very post it occurred to me that there were exceptions. like the Bee dance that does convey rather abstract information. You do sometimes get the feeling that some folks are motivated by human conceit to move the goal post. "Only humans use tools". Well sea otters use rocks, …"well only humans MAKE tools" "but chimps modify twigs to fish for termites, and modify leaves to sop up rain water for drinking"....well....well..."only humans make tools in order to make other tools". And so on.

Body language is the main important.

Point to a banana then point to your mouth.

Easy.

But joking aside, it's not a language in the way that French is. It's lots of little universally recognised ways of holding ourselves or expressing ourselves via the face or body that those with autism have issues recognising.

There are universal signals, such as cringing or smiling, but there are also local dialects. In parts of southeastern Europe, nodding means no, while shaking the head side to side means yes, the opposite of the usual. Most places, sitting positions are understood by how much one is facing another, but in SEA, it is a major insult to let someone see the soles of your feet.

Oh dear. I had to learn body language... I seemed to be the main culprit that needed training... It was all part of retail training where I had to learn how to look "Inviting". I found everyone else took to it easily. Most didn't need any training. I needed months (Actually years) of it to try to prevent me from doing certain things. I now know what I had been doing.. What I used to do were forms of stimming which was never appreciated in the retail enviroment. As I used to move my hands while nurvously talking to people, the first shop I worked in... They eventually had me fold my arms as a compromise, as by folding my arms I wasn't moving them. However, the next shop they had to get me to stop folding my arms and start leaving my arms by my sides without moving them. It took all my concentration to do this and it was intense for me. And I was supposed to make eye contact as well. I seemed to be always the worst candidate when it came to body language, and also it used to take me so much concentration that for a long time I was quite rigid and robotic and monotone... Where I am not actually monotone, but to put so much i to concentrating on nody language while at the same time concentrating on what I say as we were not allowed to say "Can I help you?" as we had to concentrate to say "How can I help you?" We had lists of things like this to constantly think about... And on top of this they wanted us to push interest free credit and store cards... I drew a line at pushing these as I saw how wrong they were. If a customer asked me for one (As they were advertized all over the shop promotional advertizing boards) I would then oblige in the neccessary details but I refused to push them.
However, there was no getting away from the other aspects like body languge. I had a keen manger who's job it was to watch us staff! He was a good man though. He put his life into his work.
But my real issue is I have been so brainwashed over the years in retail training and school training in regards to body language and how I should alter my posture etc, that I put so much into masking, that it is hard for me to unmask, and when I do I feel soo vunerable and guilty! I try to run and hide!

Driving is a lot easier now that I know enough body language to alert the drivers around me about what I want them to do, such as take a left hand turn or merge into my line.