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naturalplastic
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19 Oct 2019, 3:10 pm

harry12345 wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
GonHunter wrote:
I think you're right. The music was designed for us, we have good hearing and on top of that we were able to perceive harmonic combinations through the systematization. I suspect singer Kane Strang is an asperger, listen to his song "Oh So You're Off I See".


So youre saying that music was invented solely for the benefit of the one percent of the population who are autistic?

Virtually 100 percent of the population like music. But only 1.5 percent are autistic. So obviously music consumption is done mostly by non-autistics.

No, I'm comparing the perceptual relationship to the music. Music is much more than mere appreciation


So..

A) you claimed that you "agree" with the OP that "music was invented for autistics", but you actually...do NOT agree with him about that at all. You don't think it was invented just for autistics..

B) What you actually DO think is that autistics are somehow better at recognizing technical aspects of music than NTs.
That autistics who are non musicians and listeners are more astute than NT non musician listeners.

I myself have never seen evidence for that. I am non musician listener and I suddenly became more astute about "what tricks they use on pop songs on the radio" (like they put a little echo on that solo guitar for a few seconds there, or that song was put over a bed of a tape of instrumental music being played backward there). But that was only after I took a few courses in both music history, and in sound engineering. Not because I have always been on the autism spectrum.
B). I don't have data either, but at least when I listen to music I can perceive details as bass and sound effects.


When I listen to my own music (prog rock) I can pick out the various band members playing and follow their part of the tune playing "air guitar" if you will (though just with my finger tips). The more complex a music track is the more I like it, as long as it is a band/style I like of course.

It's the same with multi conversations in a room - I can tune to follow one or the other.

I used to work in a fairly noisy factory and it was like an industrial avant-garde music track - you know I should have recorded it and released it on Amazon or something.

Is that something anyone (everyone) can do or is it an AS thing. (multi track listening, not wanting to release CDs of work noise on Amazon).


Some of what youre saying sounds like the opposite of autistic. Austistics are supposed to get overwhelmed by sensory overload in public places, and overloaded by conversations in parties, and to not be able to follow conversations.

NT musicians can zero in on the person playing the instrument they play on a recording. Nothing autistic about that. Like aa drummer guy I knew who would comment how great the drumming was on some common song on the radio in which the drummer was not drawing special attention to himself by doing solos (like when I would notice the drummer). Just the drummer being part of the ensemble.



QFT
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19 Oct 2019, 6:25 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Apart from the obvious fact that any given song has the same words every time, they also have an added predictability: before they ever say the first word, they have that tune that make you *know* what song are they about to sing. Now, autistics like predictability. So could it be that the music is sort of designed for them? I mean I heard people saying that autistics are good in music and that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone ever pointed out that thing with the tune helping you predict the song. People think the predictor-tune thing is sort of a given, but to me it strikes me as autistic.


Eer... if the words and the tune weren't the same every time, it would be different music. With this logic movies, books and TV shows are all made for autistic people too since they don't change either.


But with books you have sometimes the same book in different cover. Yet with music there is always that tune before the song starts in order to help you predict what song would it be. I am not even talking about the tune during the song but right before it. Like whats the point of having that tune before the song to tell you what song you are about to listen to? Why not just start that song right away?


Music can have different covers too when talking about CDs. The cover of the CD isn't a permanent part of the music, but neither is a cover of a book part of the story.


Even though the covers of the CD-s can be different, the question remains: why are the tunes before the songs stay the same?

I realized that movies don't change either. But those journals before the movies DO change. Yet in case of the music you have that tune before the song that always stays the same. Its like trying to make sure that the journal before a specific movie stays the same so that people can predict what movie it would be just by looking at the journal.

(By journal I mean when they show brief ads of those other movies in the cinema, I don't know how to call that in English).


Because they're a part of the song like the first scene is always the same in a movie no matter how many times you watch it. If you took away the first moments of the song, you're not listening to the whole song, just like skipping the first few minutes of a movie would mean you aren't watching the whole movie.


So why is it the first scene in the song never has any words in it?



Fireblossom
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20 Oct 2019, 12:58 am

QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Apart from the obvious fact that any given song has the same words every time, they also have an added predictability: before they ever say the first word, they have that tune that make you *know* what song are they about to sing. Now, autistics like predictability. So could it be that the music is sort of designed for them? I mean I heard people saying that autistics are good in music and that kind of stuff. But I don't think anyone ever pointed out that thing with the tune helping you predict the song. People think the predictor-tune thing is sort of a given, but to me it strikes me as autistic.


Eer... if the words and the tune weren't the same every time, it would be different music. With this logic movies, books and TV shows are all made for autistic people too since they don't change either.


But with books you have sometimes the same book in different cover. Yet with music there is always that tune before the song starts in order to help you predict what song would it be. I am not even talking about the tune during the song but right before it. Like whats the point of having that tune before the song to tell you what song you are about to listen to? Why not just start that song right away?


Music can have different covers too when talking about CDs. The cover of the CD isn't a permanent part of the music, but neither is a cover of a book part of the story.


Even though the covers of the CD-s can be different, the question remains: why are the tunes before the songs stay the same?

I realized that movies don't change either. But those journals before the movies DO change. Yet in case of the music you have that tune before the song that always stays the same. Its like trying to make sure that the journal before a specific movie stays the same so that people can predict what movie it would be just by looking at the journal.

(By journal I mean when they show brief ads of those other movies in the cinema, I don't know how to call that in English).


Because they're a part of the song like the first scene is always the same in a movie no matter how many times you watch it. If you took away the first moments of the song, you're not listening to the whole song, just like skipping the first few minutes of a movie would mean you aren't watching the whole movie.


So why is it the first scene in the song never has any words in it?


Actually, sometimes they do. Some music is like that, some isn't. I don't think there's any reason for it other than how the one who makes the music wants them to be.



harry12345
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20 Oct 2019, 3:26 am

naturalplastic wrote:

Some of what youre saying sounds like the opposite of autistic. Austistics are supposed to get overwhelmed by sensory overload in public places, and overloaded by conversations in parties, and to not be able to follow conversations.

NT musicians can zero in on the person playing the instrument they play on a recording. Nothing autistic about that. Like aa drummer guy I knew who would comment how great the drumming was on some common song on the radio in which the drummer was not drawing special attention to himself by doing solos (like when I would notice the drummer). Just the drummer being part of the ensemble.


A busy work canteen.

I used to sit at the end of a table on my own hoping no one would come and sit with me. I always went in when it was quiet and it slowly got busier. Eventually when it was full I would be able to sit there listening to the babble of conversations every so often picking out words here and there depending on who was speaking. Sometimes it was someone on table A sometimes someone on table B, etc. Often I couldn't tell what the sentence meant, but I got the words.

All the while undercutting all that would be the babble of everyone else, plus the bang and clatter of the kitchen area, the hum of the extractor fan, the scraping chairs, the thump of the vending machine, the ping of the microwave, the click of the mouse used by the person in the computer zone next to me etc, etc.

I would struggle to hear what someone sitting next to me was saying to me because of all the background din.

It wasn't nice.

On reflection, the way I described it previously wasn't written in the best way. :oops:



QFT
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20 Oct 2019, 6:18 pm

I realize that majority of NT-s like music. But lets put it differently. Could it be that each person has NT-side and autistic-side and music is designed to appeal to the autistic-side of most NT-s? I mean, given that everything else in this world is so very much NT, maybe the autistic side of the NT-s was screaming loudly enough for them to come up with the one and only thing to appeal that side of themselves -- music. And the other evidence that music is directed to more autistic side is that it is one of the few emotion-based activities of the NT-s that autistics can actually appreciate.



Fireblossom
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21 Oct 2019, 3:44 am

QFT wrote:
I realize that majority of NT-s like music. But lets put it differently. Could it be that each person has NT-side and autistic-side and music is designed to appeal to the autistic-side of most NT-s? I mean, given that everything else in this world is so very much NT, maybe the autistic side of the NT-s was screaming loudly enough for them to come up with the one and only thing to appeal that side of themselves -- music. And the other evidence that music is directed to more autistic side is that it is one of the few emotion-based activities of the NT-s that autistics can actually appreciate.


Nah. I think that liking music, or to be more accurate, liking sounds and compinations of sounds that pleases a person, is a human trait that has nothing to do with being autistic or NT.



Mona Pereth
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21 Oct 2019, 11:58 pm

I wouldn't say that music is "designed for" autistic people. However, there are known genetic links between musical talent and at least some kinds of autism.

For example, here and here and here and here are articles about a specific genetic mutation shared by thirty non-autistic prodigies (musical and otherwise) and their autistic close relatives, but not shared by any tested relatives of theirs who were neither autistic nor prodigies. (One of these articles also notes commonalities between autistic traits and the habits of the prodigies, leading me to wonder if the "non-autistic" prodigies might, in fact, at least fit the BAP if not a mild form of ASD.)


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