Autistic Motor issues not thought about enough

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ASPartOfMe
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08 Nov 2019, 6:38 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
While I agree with the Neurodiversity movements idea that a lot of the problems autistic people face are caused correctable societal misunderstanding and discrimination of the way we think and express ourselves via body language, this is why I can’t agree with those that posit autism is just a gift. Motor problems are not a invisible disability, but a traditional physical one that can be mitigated but not eliminated by societal understanding.

Very few people (and only a small minority of neurodiversity paradigm advocates, as far as I can tell) actually claim that "autism is just a gift," although many of us do feel that autism entails (for many of us, at least) strengths as well as disabilities.


I have read enough autism is a gift and the related autism is a superpower, autism is the next stage of evolution to know it is a thing. The autism as a superpower idea is seemingly gaining popularity. Greta Thunberg claims it, my cab driver claimed that about her son. This is autistic supremacy and it is as dangerous like other types of supremacy.

It is true that the leading figures of the neurodiversity movement such as ASAN, John Robison, Steve Silberman do not believe it, they describe autism as a DISABILITY. They believe as I do that autism is a human condition with strengths and weaknesses. That since these strengths and weakness differ from most other people this causes problems for autistics.

As with politics in general there seems less and less middle ground, it is either Autism is a curse, Autism as a popular insult, or Autism as a superpower. I find this all very frustrating.


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08 Nov 2019, 7:18 pm

My bone of contention with it being a 'gift 'superpower' and not in some respects a disability/weakness is that you have to have an impairment in certain areas to meet the criteria for the diagnosis .


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08 Nov 2019, 11:09 pm

GAWD DAMMIT Already was aware without having to read this . First hand .


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08 Nov 2019, 11:55 pm

languagehopper wrote:
YS, who has aspergers like I do with a high IQ, has hyperflexible joints and has a hard time even walking and is really slow and extremely clumsy, much worse than me, he never managed to ride a bike, couldn't catch, and still can't write properly although he can type a mile a minute. I am really worried for him about the future as I am afraid he could lose the mobility he has.

Why do you fear he could lose the mobility he has?

Hopefully his ability to "type a mile a minute" can be put to good use.


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09 Nov 2019, 12:45 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I have read enough autism is a gift and the related autism is a superpower, autism is the next stage of evolution to know it is a thing.

As far as I can tell, the origin of the "next stage of evolution" idea is this ABC documentary featuring an interview with Tony Attwood. The title of the documentary, "Is Asperger's syndrome the next stage of human evolution?" is derived from what appears to have been a very tentative, off-the-cuff remark made by Tony Attwood near the end of the video. I think the title was chosen just to attract eye balls. The documentary as a whole is NOT devoted to making a case for the idea of Asperger's syndrome being "the next stage of human evolution." On the contrary, it's just a general documentary documentary about Asperger's syndrome, and is quite clear that AS is mostly a disability, though it does mention strengths associated with AS.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The autism as a superpower idea is seemingly gaining popularity. Greta Thunberg claims it, my cab driver claimed that about her son.

As far as I can tell, the relevant exact quote from Greta Thunberg can be found here: "I have Aspergers and that means I’m sometimes a bit different from the norm. And - given the right circumstances- being different is a superpower."

Note the mention of "right circumstances," and note that she's not claiming to be generally superhuman. Note also that what she's claiming as a "superpower" here is "being different" -- not AS per se or AS in general. By "being different," she is less beholden to the status quo than most people are.

Can you find a more clearly "Aspie supremacist" quote from Greta Thunberg?

ASPartOfMe wrote:
This is autistic supremacy and it is as dangerous like other types of supremacy.

I think we need to be cautious about labeling something "autistic supremacy," as distinct from just pointing out the compensating advantages that at least some of us have. The latter is a valid and important thing to do, in my opinion.


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09 Nov 2019, 9:55 am

Jakki wrote:
GAWD DAMMIT Already was aware without having to read this . First hand .

Please pardon the strength of this / my reaction , to the mobility problems , if
Having to deal them , it can be soooo very frustrating . On top of , the other issues. Of this wonderous . :x .. situation . And its just one more thing to try to mask around NTs , when you can.


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09 Nov 2019, 10:52 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I have read enough autism is a gift and the related autism is a superpower, autism is the next stage of evolution to know it is a thing.

As far as I can tell, the origin of the "next stage of evolution" idea is this ABC documentary featuring an interview with Tony Attwood. The title of the documentary, "Is Asperger's syndrome the next stage of human evolution?" is derived from what appears to have been a very tentative, off-the-cuff remark made by Tony Attwood near the end of the video. I think the title was chosen just to attract eye balls. The documentary as a whole is NOT devoted to making a case for the idea of Asperger's syndrome being "the next stage of human evolution." On the contrary, it's just a general documentary documentary about Asperger's syndrome, and is quite clear that AS is mostly a disability, though it does mention strengths associated with AS.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The autism as a superpower idea is seemingly gaining popularity. Greta Thunberg claims it, my cab driver claimed that about her son.

As far as I can tell, the relevant exact quote from Greta Thunberg can be found here: "I have Aspergers and that means I’m sometimes a bit different from the norm. And - given the right circumstances- being different is a superpower."

Note the mention of "right circumstances," and note that she's not claiming to be generally superhuman. Note also that what she's claiming as a "superpower" here is "being different" -- not AS per se or AS in general. By "being different," she is less beholden to the status quo than most people are.

Can you find a more clearly "Aspie supremacist" quote from Greta Thunberg?

ASPartOfMe wrote:
This is autistic supremacy and it is as dangerous like other types of supremacy.

I think we need to be cautious about labeling something "autistic supremacy," as distinct from just pointing out the compensating advantages that at least some of us have. The latter is a valid and important
Greta say she is different because of her thing to do, in my opinion.

Autism/Aspergers as the next step in evolution idea has been around since I joined in WP 2013 and before that
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=115850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
https://blenderartists.org/t/autism-next-step-in-evolution/469771

Greta says she is different because of her Aspergers. It is her Aspergers that makes her different thus gives her the “superpower”. I think the issue is not my overuse of the term supremacy but the growth of the overuse of the word “superpower”. This goes beyond autism to an overcorrection to the “sink or swim” parenting of the past, the desire to raise the self esteem of children.

If you are in the “next stage of evolution” you are evolved or superior to those of us stuck behind. If you have superpowers you are by definition superior or more evolved then those that don’t. While the intent is far far from Nazi, supremacy is the message being sent unintentionally. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.


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09 Nov 2019, 11:21 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I have read enough autism is a gift and the related autism is a superpower, autism is the next stage of evolution to know it is a thing.

As far as I can tell, the origin of the "next stage of evolution" idea is this ABC documentary featuring an interview with Tony Attwood. The title of the documentary, "Is Asperger's syndrome the next stage of human evolution?" is derived from what appears to have been a very tentative, off-the-cuff remark made by Tony Attwood near the end of the video. I think the title was chosen just to attract eye balls. The documentary as a whole is NOT devoted to making a case for the idea of Asperger's syndrome being "the next stage of human evolution." On the contrary, it's just a general documentary documentary about Asperger's syndrome, and is quite clear that AS is mostly a disability, though it does mention strengths associated with AS.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The autism as a superpower idea is seemingly gaining popularity. Greta Thunberg claims it, my cab driver claimed that about her son.

As far as I can tell, the relevant exact quote from Greta Thunberg can be found here: "I have Aspergers and that means I’m sometimes a bit different from the norm. And - given the right circumstances- being different is a superpower."

Note the mention of "right circumstances," and note that she's not claiming to be generally superhuman. Note also that what she's claiming as a "superpower" here is "being different" -- not AS per se or AS in general. By "being different," she is less beholden to the status quo than most people are.

Can you find a more clearly "Aspie supremacist" quote from Greta Thunberg?

ASPartOfMe wrote:
This is autistic supremacy and it is as dangerous like other types of supremacy.

I think we need to be cautious about labeling something "autistic supremacy," as distinct from just pointing out the compensating advantages that at least some of us have. The latter is a valid and important
Greta say she is different because of her thing to do, in my opinion.

Autism/Aspergers as the next step in evolution idea has been around since I joined in WP 2013 and before that
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=115850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
https://blenderartists.org/t/autism-next-step-in-evolution/469771

Greta says she is different because of her Aspergers. It is her Aspergers that makes her different thus gives her the “superpower”. I think the issue is not my overuse of the term supremacy but the growth of the overuse of the word “superpower”. This goes beyond autism to an overcorrection to the “sink or swim” parenting of the past, the desire to raise the self esteem of children.

If you are in the “next stage of evolution” you are evolved or superior to those of us stuck behind. If you have superpowers you are by definition superior or more evolved then those that don’t. While the intent is far far from Nazi, supremacy is the message being sent unintentionally. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.


Hmm.. thoughtfully written : shall we reopen Dachua ? "WORK WILL SET YOU FREE"


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12 Nov 2019, 2:05 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Autism/Aspergers as the next step in evolution idea has been around since I joined in WP 2013 and before that
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=115850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

That thread does not contain an example of someone actually, seriously, wholeheartedly advocating the idea. It contains only an example of someone claiming (as you claim) that there are people who actually, seriously, and wholeheartedly advocate this idea. The relevant quote from the above thread:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
This can easily be compounded because there are honestly some people that think that AS and other disorders on the spectrum are the next stage in evolution, which is a belief i disagree with completely.

The next thread you listed was:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Still not outright advocating the idea, but stating it only very tentatively, and in a context that makes it clear that autism has plenty of disadvantages as well as some advantages for some people.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Greta says she is different because of her Aspergers. It is her Aspergers that makes her different thus gives her the “superpower”. I think the issue is not my overuse of the term supremacy but the growth of the overuse of the word “superpower”. This goes beyond autism to an overcorrection to the “sink or swim” parenting of the past, the desire to raise the self esteem of children.

Is your problem here just that you think the word "superpower" is too strong a word? Or do you have a general problem with parents letting their children know that they have outstanding abilities as well as disabilities, if indeed that's the case?


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12 Nov 2019, 4:21 am

It's all down to how you choose to interpret what's been said .


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12 Nov 2019, 6:06 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Autism/Aspergers as the next step in evolution idea has been around since I joined in WP 2013 and before that
https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=115850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

That thread does not contain an example of someone actually, seriously, wholeheartedly advocating the idea. It contains only an example of someone claiming (as you claim) that there are people who actually, seriously, and wholeheartedly advocate this idea. The relevant quote from the above thread:

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
This can easily be compounded because there are honestly some people that think that AS and other disorders on the spectrum are the next stage in evolution, which is a belief i disagree with completely.

The next thread you listed was:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Still not outright advocating the idea, but stating it only very tentatively, and in a context that makes it clear that autism has plenty of disadvantages as well as some advantages for some people.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Greta says she is different because of her Aspergers. It is her Aspergers that makes her different thus gives her the “superpower”. I think the issue is not my overuse of the term supremacy but the growth of the overuse of the word “superpower”. This goes beyond autism to an overcorrection to the “sink or swim” parenting of the past, the desire to raise the self esteem of children.

Is your problem here just that you think the word "superpower" is too strong a word? Or do you have a general problem with parents letting their children know that they have outstanding abilities as well as disabilities, if indeed that's the case?


Is Asperger's Evolution In Process?
Quote:
February 21st, 2013, 8:51 am
I have a theory. Asperger's is evolution in process. Human brains are changing and we are becoming smarter, so nature has to accommodate for our changing environment by preparing the human race, or catching us up rather, for the rapid change in technology, science, and communication styles. Think about it, we are relying more and more on computers and technology to communicate with less face to face interaction. So, it is not and illness or disorder in my humble opinion. It is nature's response to change. Humans are changing rapidly. I wonder if most of the population will behave like an Aspie in a few hundred years.

Food for thought.


February 21st, 2013, 9:00 am
You are not the first person to speculate about this.


Discoblog - Could Autism Be the Next Stage of Human Evolution? November 6, 2007
Quote:
In the play “Lucy,” an emotionally distant anthropologist (Lisa Emery) decides that her severely autistic daughter Lucy (Lucy DeVito) is not sick. Instead, says the hermit scientist, she is the future: Lucy’s lack of connection to other human beings is actually an evolutionary leap forward. The rest of us? Obsolete—mental health fossils.

A lot of the statements I have read were not in the title that can be googled but in somebody's post

Why The Autism Spectrum Is Not The Next Evolutionary Step. - Wrong Planet March 23, 2009
ruveyn
Quote:
I have read in some postings the belief that autism and specially AS is the next evolutionary step for mankind. It is not.

Did he make this all up?


I did not say most wrong planet members agreed with the idea most did not and do not. I said that the idea is not all that new.


I briefly discussed my problem with the "superpowers" language and the autism positive language I would prefer here.
Tony Attwood On Greta Thunberg, Superpowers, Mental Illness


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12 Nov 2019, 11:06 pm

firemonkey wrote:
It's all down to how you choose to interpret what's been said .

STRONGLY AGREES .

Perhaps what is written below doesnt apply .
Notwithstanding those of us whom are barely making things in life work.
But still think is these terms.

Issues arises..is it wrong to have empathy and be kind.
Wrong to process useful information and act on it for betterment .
Wrong to practice self sufficiency as best you can based on aquired knowledge
And or help others .. apparently so, wrong ,as to be considered moronic ?from what , i have seen in absolute majority of NT world?
Sorry just a bad day / life.


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15 Nov 2019, 3:23 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Is Asperger's Evolution In Process?
Quote:
February 21st, 2013, 8:51 am
I have a theory. Asperger's is evolution in process. Human brains are changing and we are becoming smarter, so nature has to accommodate for our changing environment by preparing the human race, or catching us up rather, for the rapid change in technology, science, and communication styles. Think about it, we are relying more and more on computers and technology to communicate with less face to face interaction. So, it is not and illness or disorder in my humble opinion. It is nature's response to change. Humans are changing rapidly. I wonder if most of the population will behave like an Aspie in a few hundred years.

Food for thought.


February 21st, 2013, 9:00 am
You are not the first person to speculate about this.

As noted by the second person you quoted above, the first person was just "speculating," not seriously advocating the idea, although the first quote above is the closest thing to serious advocacy of the "next-step-in-evolution" idea that you've dug up so far, or that I've otherwise seen so far.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Discoblog - Could Autism Be the Next Stage of Human Evolution? November 6, 2007
Quote:
In the play “Lucy,” an emotionally distant anthropologist (Lisa Emery) decides that her severely autistic daughter Lucy (Lucy DeVito) is not sick. Instead, says the hermit scientist, she is the future: Lucy’s lack of connection to other human beings is actually an evolutionary leap forward. The rest of us? Obsolete—mental health fossils.

The above is about something advocated by a fictional character (in a "play"), not by a real person.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
A lot of the statements I have read were not in the title that can be googled but in somebody's post

Why The Autism Spectrum Is Not The Next Evolutionary Step. - Wrong Planet March 23, 2009
ruveyn
Quote:
I have read in some postings the belief that autism and specially AS is the next evolutionary step for mankind. It is not.

Did he make this all up?

He might be misinterpreting the posts he saw. Without quoting the original posts he's referring to, there's no way to judge that one way or the other.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I did not say most wrong planet members agreed with the idea most did not and do not. I said that the idea is not all that new.

The idea has been around a while, but so far I've seen it only as, at most, a very tentative speculation.

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I briefly discussed my problem with the "superpowers" language and the autism positive language I would prefer here.
Tony Attwood On Greta Thunberg, Superpowers, Mental Illness

I agree that your preferred language is better.


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15 Nov 2019, 4:59 am

An article from 2007 , not specifically about autism, may be of interest.


Quote:
Date:
October 22, 2007
Source:
University of Alberta
Summary:
A new study looking at the connections between athletic skill and social acceptance among school children has found that kids place a great deal of value on athletic ability, and youngsters deemed unskilled by their peers often experience sadness, isolation and social rejection at school.



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 085951.htm


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15 Nov 2019, 11:07 pm

Aspie superpowers , next stage evolution ..... analytical anomilies ,.. unusually empathetic , to point of Some kinda psychic ability . .? Add , auties .. savants . Obviously just abberations ?.poor outside personal interactions .With NTs . Happening in populations world over .
Human brains using only small percentage . To function ? Higher density of neural connections
Supposably appearing in autistic people .
Now , have seen nonverbal person .. not appearing to be able to care for themselves . Without much help . Doing 1000 piece puzzles , by themselves in under 2 hours . If not interrupted .
Things hidden out of sight .. autie not even within 10 miles of the thing being hidden. When put up higher than person could reach or see . Within a hour time frame a delightful package of biscuits, are located . By this autie person . With no forknowledge of this object being even on site .( biscuits) :arrow:
This is first hand info. Evolution , does not . Always go in straight lines , i think . Btw no exposure to tech of anykind , she was not interested.
As evolution may progress variations always occur . Dysfunctions crop up as various species
Outcroppings , are more adaptable . Or progresses to a homeostasis . The current progressions of NTs cannot be sustained . Considerations for resources , planet changes , social interactions.
Seen many NT police / sheriffs depts .. all depts . Appear not to be processing obvious info.
Prisons are not sustainable . Practicing felons left go on unsuspecting populace. They are sharing info. Have seen persons assist them in linking up to each other , With various excuses ..religious reform ,& what not , but truley reformed ex felons are small in number , recitavism . Is more often ,the case . With young men NTs looking up to them . Now they all have walkie talkies , (cellphone).
Authorities not willing to engage amount of warrants for phones , unless very very seriously popular person. These groups of persons are far from stupid . They have huge information resources based on first hand shared experiences between them selves . Anyone living on there own can be easy pickings ..disabled, widows ..elderly.
NT society as it is , most likely is not sustainable.. Seems growth towards intuitiveness .
And specific populations that maybe more empathetic balanced with intuition , might be a logical outcropping , given current NT societal practices ?.
Had stumbled on a wix website by a anthrpologists .. seems this fellow was leaning towards concept of evolution too. Aspie numbers continue to be more prevelant .
Am not particularily clear how to assess all this info. ?


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