Defeatism, or "Learned Helplessness".
11 Dec 2019, 11:34 am
I have only had one experience with an "Autism specialist" therapist. My trauma therapist asked if I would like to try this other guy. I said ok. He lasted about ten minutes with me and then we kicked him out of the session. It was so bad. My trauma therapist was amazed at how incredibly condescending this guy was to me. We never invited him back.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
11 Dec 2019, 12:20 pm
magz wrote:
SharonB wrote:
@magz, what does "it needs to be followed" mean?
I need to hide from people and avoid them when I feel like that.
It's a healthy fear that protects me from a real danger, not a phobia requiring treatment.
Got it. Thank you. Sounds similar to when I feel like somebody "doesn't like me" or I am unexplainably agitated, that is a big clue to get out or get help.
11 Dec 2019, 12:25 pm
Sorry for those folks who have bad experiences. I'm fortunate to live near a big city so there are lots of resources and options. My ASD support group recommended an ASD therapist. She groans at the ignorance in her field and is doing what she can to educate her peers and the community. It is a respectful and beneficial fit for me. (She may be Broad Autism Phenotype.)
11 Dec 2019, 12:28 pm
SharonB wrote:
Sorry for those folks who have bad experiences. I'm fortunate to live near a big city so there are lots of resources and options. My ASD support group recommended an ASD therapist. She groans at the ignorance in her field and is doing what she can to educate her peers and the community. It is a respectful and beneficial fit for me. (She may be Broad Autism Phenotype.)
She needs to educate "Autism experts" in my area!
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
11 Dec 2019, 12:32 pm
SharonB wrote:
Got it. Thank you. Sounds similar to when I feel like somebody "doesn't like me" or I am unexplainably agitated, that is a big clue to get out or get help.
The feeling is likely an important clue but the attempted rationalisation (somebody "not liking you") may not be accurate.
But an urge to get away from that person may be justified - they may be e.g. overstimulating or not respecting your boundaries.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
11 Dec 2019, 12:37 pm
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
_________________
I've left WP.
11 Dec 2019, 12:53 pm
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
11 Dec 2019, 1:00 pm
skibum wrote:
My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively.
I do this, too!
But I needed a therapist anyway, because my analytical persona got too detached from my emotional persona and I ended up quite disintegrated.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
11 Dec 2019, 1:11 pm
magz wrote:
skibum wrote:
My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively.
I do this, too!
But I needed a therapist anyway, because my analytical persona got too detached from my emotional persona and I ended up quite disintegrated.
Oh wow, that is interesting. I think most Autistics have this ability. I think it is part of how we survive. We have to analyze all of the situations we are in in order to understand how to navigate them since most situations seem to be geared for the intuitive social navigational skills that NTs have. I just think that some of us do it on a much more sophisticated and much more highly developed level than others. But I think almost all or us have to do it to a degree or we don't survive as Autistics in an NT world.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
11 Dec 2019, 1:12 pm
skibum wrote:
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.OMG, I work in EXACTLY the same way. In the moment, I can't observe anything, even myself, but my mind records everything in the conversation: including body language, tone of voice, and most of the time what they say word for word. I go over the interaction in my head, with everybody, repeatedly until I have an idea of what actually happened, then again, and again until finally I "get it". This ability alone gives me a distinct advantage over other autistics and other people. I'm much more comfortable/less afraid to face what's "wrong" with myself and other people than a lot of people are. It's always incredibly amazing when I meet someone else with similar comfortableness, or even when they're better at it than I am. Especially those who can do it in real time, they fascinate me.
_________________
I've left WP.
11 Dec 2019, 1:22 pm
smudge wrote:
skibum wrote:
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.OMG, I work in EXACTLY the same way. In the moment, I can't observe anything, even myself, but my mind records everything in the conversation: including body language, tone of voice, and most of the time what they say word for word. I go over the interaction in my head, with everybody, repeatedly until I have an idea of what actually happened, then again, and again until finally I "get it". This ability alone gives me a distinct advantage over other autistics and other people. I'm much more comfortable/less afraid to face what's "wrong" with myself and other people than a lot of people are. It's always incredibly amazing when I meet someone else with similar comfortableness, or even when they're better at it than I am. Especially those who can do it in real time, they fascinate me.
I used to do it in real time a lot.
It cost me my mental health - exhaustion without recognizing I was doing anything extraordinary. I just behaved like everybody else so I assumed everybody else was doing the same.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
Last edited by magz on 11 Dec 2019, 1:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
11 Dec 2019, 1:33 pm
magz wrote:
smudge wrote:
skibum wrote:
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.OMG, I work in EXACTLY the same way. In the moment, I can't observe anything, even myself, but my mind records everything in the conversation: including body language, tone of voice, and most of the time what they say word for word. I go over the interaction in my head, with everybody, repeatedly until I have an idea of what actually happened, then again, and again until finally I "get it". This ability alone gives me a distinct advantage over other autistics and other people. I'm much more comfortable/less afraid to face what's "wrong" with myself and other people than a lot of people are. It's always incredibly amazing when I meet someone else with similar comfortableness, or even when they're better at it than I am. Especially those who can do it in real time, they fascinate me.
I used to do it in real time a lot.
It cost me my mental health - exhaustion without recognizing I was doing anything extraordinary.
In a life without literal rules and having to adapt constantly from literal thinking to constantly analysing what others really mean, with the fact that you get punished for it when you don't pick up on it at the right times etc. I'm not remotely surprised it can burn you out. It would take me massive concentration to be able to focus on everything at once in real time like that.
Also that's a massive problem with NTs - they can't, they are unable to see what it's doing to us and how complicated and hard work it is. Having to work on your conversation skills and keep up in real time is very hard work. To them it's nothing.
_________________
I've left WP.
11 Dec 2019, 1:36 pm
smudge wrote:
skibum wrote:
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.OMG, I work in EXACTLY the same way. In the moment, I can't observe anything, even myself, but my mind records everything in the conversation: including body language, tone of voice, and most of the time what they say word for word. I go over the interaction in my head, with everybody, repeatedly until I have an idea of what actually happened, then again, and again until finally I "get it". This ability alone gives me a distinct advantage over other autistics and other people. I'm much more comfortable/less afraid to face what's "wrong" with myself and other people than a lot of people are. It's always incredibly amazing when I meet someone else with similar comfortableness, or even when they're better at it than I am. Especially those who can do it in real time, they fascinate me.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
11 Dec 2019, 1:41 pm
magz wrote:
smudge wrote:
skibum wrote:
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.OMG, I work in EXACTLY the same way. In the moment, I can't observe anything, even myself, but my mind records everything in the conversation: including body language, tone of voice, and most of the time what they say word for word. I go over the interaction in my head, with everybody, repeatedly until I have an idea of what actually happened, then again, and again until finally I "get it". This ability alone gives me a distinct advantage over other autistics and other people. I'm much more comfortable/less afraid to face what's "wrong" with myself and other people than a lot of people are. It's always incredibly amazing when I meet someone else with similar comfortableness, or even when they're better at it than I am. Especially those who can do it in real time, they fascinate me.
I used to do it in real time a lot.
It cost me my mental health - exhaustion without recognizing I was doing anything extraordinary. I just behaved like everybody else so I assumed everybody else was doing the same.
_________________
"I'm bad and that's good. I'll never be good and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me."
Wreck It Ralph
11 Dec 2019, 1:42 pm
smudge wrote:
magz wrote:
smudge wrote:
skibum wrote:
smudge wrote:
Therapy, or at least the beneficial kind just doesn't exist here. I dunno what to do except to be my own counsellor. I know myself and talk to myself more kindly than most therapists ever did. It makes you wonder how most of them became qualified. The very basic mistakes some of them make is really unbelievable.
I am very good at that as well. My analytical persona can detach from myself and see myself from a third party perspective as if watching myself in a movie. Then I can analyze my thoughts, actions, and interactions and understand a lot of them as if I were looking at other people objectively. I can then change how I think, feel and act accordingly. Unfortunately this never happens in the moment. I have to "review the tapes" well after the fact so other than being a great debriefing and analysis, I don't know how helpful it is practically. But it really helps me understand things beyond my own perspective. Contrary to popular belief, my Theory of Mind is incredibly developed. And I use this ability to educate my therapists and other people who are interested in my Autistic perspective.OMG, I work in EXACTLY the same way. In the moment, I can't observe anything, even myself, but my mind records everything in the conversation: including body language, tone of voice, and most of the time what they say word for word. I go over the interaction in my head, with everybody, repeatedly until I have an idea of what actually happened, then again, and again until finally I "get it". This ability alone gives me a distinct advantage over other autistics and other people. I'm much more comfortable/less afraid to face what's "wrong" with myself and other people than a lot of people are. It's always incredibly amazing when I meet someone else with similar comfortableness, or even when they're better at it than I am. Especially those who can do it in real time, they fascinate me.
I used to do it in real time a lot.
It cost me my mental health - exhaustion without recognizing I was doing anything extraordinary.
In a life without literal rules and having to adapt constantly from literal thinking to constantly analysing what others really mean, with the fact that you get punished for it when you don't pick up on it at the right times etc. I'm not remotely surprised it can burn you out. It would take me massive concentration to be able to focus on everything at once in real time like that.
Also that's a massive problem with NTs - they can't, they are unable to see what it's doing to us and how complicated and hard work it is. Having to work on your conversation skills and keep up in real time is very hard work. To them it's nothing.
FTR, I have no problem with NTs and don't feel like it's us vs. them. It's just this main problem, some of them sympathise, it depends how you word it to them yourself also.
_________________
I've left WP.
