Defeatism, or "Learned Helplessness".

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Fnord
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09 Dec 2019, 1:12 pm

skibum wrote:
WOW!! That is unbelievable. It's a super important thing to know. So sorry you had to go through that.
I paid cash for my diagnosis, so my current employer is unlikely to have any legally-obtained proof to use against me.


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Last edited by Fnord on 09 Dec 2019, 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skibum
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09 Dec 2019, 1:14 pm

That is good.

My employer provides counseling as well. Now I know never to use it.


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Twilightprincess
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09 Dec 2019, 1:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
skibum wrote:
Fnord wrote:
skibum wrote:
The therapist actually forgot your name???? That is crazy.
Not only that, but I later overheard my boss discussing my case with another manager, and quoted a few things I had said to the counselor. NEVER AGAIN will I take counselling from a work-related therapist.
OMG!! Isn't that like a lawsuit in the making?
Apparently not, especially when the employer is paying the therapist to "screen" employees who may become troublesome (I was going through a divorce at the time). According to my lawyer (at the time) this is standard practice -- offer "free counselling" as an employee benefit, and then use the "confidential" information to justify finding the least little infraction of the rules that would give reason to dismiss the employee.

NEVER accept such an offer from an employer!!


That’s pretty bad!

I wouldn’t have thought a therapist could get away with that. Crazy, and it must’ve been very awkward for you at the time.



Rainbow_Belle
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09 Dec 2019, 7:59 pm

I wish I would not have to endure an empty, meaningless life with Aspergers and never being accepted in this world. I only remember being relentlessly bullied and never accepted during my years at school and this lead to chronic depression, OCD and anxiety issues. Life does not magically change or you wake up normal. It is what it is.



Twilightprincess
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09 Dec 2019, 8:01 pm

You don’t have to have an empty and meaningless life with Asperger’s.



Fnord
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09 Dec 2019, 8:20 pm

@Rainbow_Belle: Would you please start a thread of your own about your problems in The Haven instead of trying to take over this thread? Thank you.


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— Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock, in the Star Trek
episode "The Mark of Gideon" (ep. 3.16, 1969)


magz
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10 Dec 2019, 1:55 am

Fnord wrote:
@Rainbow_Belle: Would you please start a thread of your own about your problems in The Haven instead of trying to take over this thread? Thank you.

It's the second time I noticed you started a thread about some issue and a member showed up to give an example of precisely the issue in question.
The other was the "I'm not talking to you" thread.
Funny.


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GiantHockeyFan
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10 Dec 2019, 7:22 am

skibum wrote:
That is good.

My employer provides counseling as well. Now I know never to use it.

I think that is a bit of an unfair general statement. I have used the employment-paid counselling and will be using my benefits to get a diagnosis. All the employer knows is that I went to see a psychologist. Clearly I am not the only one as they recently doubled the allowable benefits per year. Granted my example isn't quite the same thing: I can go to any registered and licensed psychologist in the province just like I can go to any dentist. I should mention I am actually getting a diagnosis it BECAUSE of work, at least in the public sector otherwise I don't have a hope in heck of getting past the initial screening since I am neither female, a visible minority or LGBT.

Perhaps if I had to seek a diagnosis on my first employer's dime I would have been able to identify that I wasn't crazy and they were trying to push me out because I was too knowledgeable and intelligent and opinionated to be an effective worker bee.



Fnord
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10 Dec 2019, 9:01 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
@Rainbow_Belle: Would you please start a thread of your own about your problems in The Haven instead of trying to take over this thread? Thank you.
It's the second time I noticed you started a thread about some issue and a member showed up to give an example of precisely the issue in question. The other was the "I'm not talking to you" thread. Funny.
In this instance, I feel that:

1) Rainbow_Belle's concerns would best be served under the customs and rules of The Haven.

2) I started this thread to address Defeatism in its meta-context, not as a case-specific discussion.

3) There are at this point in time at least 4 members of WrongPlanet who either (a) express their problems in many unrelated or peripherally-related threads (thus derailing those threads), or (b) start multiple threads in multiple fora to express their same problems over and over again.

So I ask you, why should chronic complaining go hand-in-hand with a Defeatist attitude?


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“I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the
purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.”

— Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock, in the Star Trek
episode "The Mark of Gideon" (ep. 3.16, 1969)


magz
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10 Dec 2019, 9:20 am

Fnord wrote:
why should chronic complaining go hand-in-hand with a Defeatist attitude?[/color]

Because without defeatist attitude complaining wouldn't be chronic? My guess.


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Fnord
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10 Dec 2019, 9:22 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
why should chronic complaining go hand-in-hand with a Defeatist attitude?[/color]
Because without defeatist attitude complaining wouldn't be chronic? My guess.
So chronic complaining could be a "comorbid" of learned helplessness ... ?


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“I must acknowledge, once and for all, that the
purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis.”

— Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock, in the Star Trek
episode "The Mark of Gideon" (ep. 3.16, 1969)


magz
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10 Dec 2019, 9:31 am

Fnord wrote:
So chronic complaining could be a "comorbid" of learned helplessness ... ?

Possibly, I guess.
I see chronic complaining as a symptom of unhealthily strong pessimism, which may be part of the learned helplessness package.


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skibum
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10 Dec 2019, 3:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
why should chronic complaining go hand-in-hand with a Defeatist attitude?[/color]
Because without defeatist attitude complaining wouldn't be chronic? My guess.
So chronic complaining could be a "comorbid" of learned helplessness ... ?
That is actually a pretty cool insight. I can see how they would go together.


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skibum
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10 Dec 2019, 3:30 pm

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So chronic complaining could be a "comorbid" of learned helplessness ... ?

Possibly, I guess.
I see chronic complaining as a symptom of unhealthily strong pessimism, which may be part of the learned helplessness package.
That is a really good point. I can see that as well now that you mentioned it.


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SharonB
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10 Dec 2019, 4:12 pm

(I haven't read many of the 75-some posts; so excuse this for its redundancy or irrelevance.)

I have a big serving of learned helplessness and yet have been very "successful" ---or is it that I genuinely need help and/or am ashamed and/or am scared (so it comes out as whining)?

My AS-like BFF doesn't complain at all and she has kept her world so very small (takes care of herself and close friends). My world is BIG (community impact) and I complain a lot, so between us complaining is striving. Now, of course one would like to strive without complaining in which case one would need to be empowered … by oneself, by the community. I think the huge degree of invalidation I received in my youth set me up for "learned helplessness" (whining). I see how ingrained it is for me. I would like to reduce my angst and then my whining would decrease.

I'm not so much helpless as I am afraid to be flattened by outside forces if I take action. Which I guess is helplessness. Oh, whatever.

I would like cheese with my whine please.