anyone know of an autistic meltdown that resembles a seizure

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Im adhd, not aspie/autie, but I stopped talking entirely at about 2 years old, and instead walked on my toes.

I learned to talk again but in total adhd speak, like pikey in that movie, Snatch.

However I am short for an autie or aspie diagnosis with the dsm IV or V.

A couple years back I went through a phase trying to reason with family members who I did not know at the time are probably fully narcissistic personality disorder.

This is when the 'psuedo seizures' started. In the face of what I thought was absurd fail, or if I was in a crowded place with a hostile vibe, i would just snap and hit the floor shaking.

Could this be an autistic thing?

When any organism perceives overwhelming mortal danger with little or no chance for escape, the biological response is a global one of paralysis and shutdown. Ethologists call this innate response tonic immobility.

In the fight-or-flight response, the objective is to get away from the source of threat. All of our muscles prepare for this escape by increasing their tension level, our heart rate and respiration increase, and our whole basic metabolic system is flooded with adrenaline. Blood is diverted to the muscles, away from the viscera. The goal is to run away, or if we feel that we can't escape or if we perceive that the individual that's trying to attack us is less strong than we are, to attack them. Or if we're cornered by a predator—in other words, if there's no way to escape—then we'll fight back. Now, if none of those procedures are effective, and it looks like we're going to be killed, we go into the shock state, the tonic immobility. Now the key is that when people get into this immobility state, they do it in a state of fear. And as they come out of the immobility state, they also enter a state of fear, and actually a state in which they are prepared for what sometimes is called rage counterattack. For example, you see a cat chasing a mouse. The cat catches the mouse and has it in its paws, and the mouse goes into this immobility response. And sometimes you'll actually see the cat bat the mouse around a little bit until it comes out of the immobility, because the cat wants the chase to go on. Now, what can happen is that the mouse, when it comes out of the immobility state, goes into what is called nondirective flight. It doesn't even look for where it can run. It just runs as fast as it can in any direction. Sometimes that's right into the cat. Other times, it will actually attack, in a counterattack of rage. I've actually seen a mouse that was captured by a cat come out of the immobility and attack the cat's nose. The cat was so startled it remained there in a state of shock while the mouse scurried away. When people come out of this immobility response, their potential for rage is so strong and the associated sensations are so intense that they are afraid of their own impulse to strike out and to defend themselves. Again, this all goes back to our animal heritage.

Humans experience this frozen state as helpless terror and panic. It is a state of utter hopelessness. Sometimes these are referred to as meltdowns or panic attacks. Tonic immobility is the last-ditch of defense cascade, occurs in traumatized humans. Immobility correlates with tachycardia and low heart rate variability. Cardiac deceleration response is hypothesized to be part of a freezing-like defensive response that includes reduced body sway and heart rate deceleration. Tonic immobility is an innate behavioral response characterized by temporary, profound physical inactivity, analgesia, and relative unresponsiveness to external stimulation that occurs in response to inescapable threats. It is a form of disassociation similar to self-hypnosis.

Being physically, mentally, and emotionally immobilized by overwhelming stress permits an individual to not feel the harrowing enormity of what’s happening to them, which in their hyperarousal state might threaten their very sanity. In such instances some of the chemicals (i.e., endorphins) secreted functions as an analgesic, so the pain of any injury (to their body or psyche) is experienced with far less intensity.

There is a type of exercise that may be very beneficial for you. It is described in the book "The Revolutionary Trauma Release Process" by David Berceli.

I sometimes get shivery in a full shutdown. My skin can feel clammy. I get partial and full shutdowns. Partial can be mildly to deeply in one and then a full shutdown comes if I am not able to prevent myself from going into one.
People can experience shutdowns in different ways (If that's what it is with you). I only mention it as I can go into shutdowns in a similar way. For me it is a gradual experience where I could be going into a partial to a full shutdown from the trigger point in anything between about 25 seconds to a few minutes or even longer (If I am partly successful in preventing them from going between partial and full shutdowns).
What happens to me is that my body first starts to take a lot of effort to do any physical movement, and going deeper, my body goes limp. I loose the ability to get strength to move my body if that makes sense? It feels like a machine like a JCB that has lost its hydraulic fluid so it has tremendous potential power in its "Limbs" (E.g. the rear mechanism to power the rear bucket) but is unable to use them... If that makes sense?
By this time I end up on the floor. Then if I am not able to relax and have not been able to remove myself from the stress that triggered the event, I would go into a full shutdown where my eyesight dims to being totally black and I hear a loud tinitus which drops in note as my eyesight dims, and I get a feeling of panic. The actual shutdown does not last long but if when I start to recover from it (Recovery before I can get up again can take a while and I can't force it), I may get someone trying to speak to me in an attempt to get me to recover (As some may assume I have fainted etc, so they may use techniques to pull someone out of a faint by asking them what is their name, what is their date of birth, where do they live etc), I will go straight back into another shutdown.

I can describe in more detail... I can shake a bit while in a shutdown, but it is more of a shivery shake if that makes sense and I don't always do this. I usually reach this stage if it has taken me a while to recover, especially if I have had more then one shutdown.

I hope the information makes sense?

I went to a support group for people with non epileptic/pseudo seizures because when I'm stressed I start shaking, lose my ability to speak and have some other symptoms. While I don't remember the exact number of people there, a weirdly high proportion of us were on the autism spectrum and then some others were in the process of being diagnosed. Considering we are 1% of the population and there could not have been more then twenty people there from all over my country and a fair chunk of us were autistic or suspected to be so, that is pretty weird. There wasn't much research into that at the time, I'm not sure about now but the hospital staff said they noticed it.

I suspect this is what you are referring to. This is a video of Alexa Girard. She is about to visit a teacher that she really likes but hasn't seen in seven years. As a result she is experiencing a great deal of stress. She sits down and her body vibrates for awhile until she vents the stress energy.

Are you sure it's only a meltdown and not an actual seizure?

My elder's seizures started RIGHT AFTER he witnessed a 'fight' between my XH and I where XH was trying to kick me out of the house for no reason. We know they are seizures because he got neurologists who said so , and brain scans that showed what type of seizures they were.

He never had them before, he was 3.5 then and the very next day they started exactly as you describe except they never went away.

They always get worse when he is emotionally distressed, despite medications. Like right now his dad hasn't seen them for weeks (refuses to) and his seizures are increasing daily. Nurses note it down too so I'm not just randomly guessing.

When he had an evil therapist (mentioned her on another thread before) his seizures were like, multiple times an hour, really severe ones...
till we found out she was abusing him mentally in a psychopathic way and she was fired, literally within days his seizures decreased

I listened to a leading expert talk and he said that it is consistantly average that if he takes 100 (Or more) people and randomly assesses them from anywhere in the world, 6% would have enough traits to be classed as being on the spectrum, BUT, in the USA where more assessments per head of the population are done then most of the world, only 2 1/2% of the population has been diagnosed. He said that in the poorer countries 1% or less of the population have been diagnosed due to the lack of assessment, as in the poorer countries, only those with significent autism related issues will have been assessed. Due to the long waiting lists here in the UK and the inherited "Stigma" there is about mental conditions, I can understand why only 1% of our population are said to be on the spectrum.
Given that the highest rates of assessment have 2 1/2 % of the population as being on the spectrum, this means that 3 1/2 % live their lives never having been assessed and not knowing. I think (If I recall corectly) that either 4% of the population were not hampered through being on the spectrum, or it was 4% of the population that were hampered in some way by their traits. I can't remember, but what I personally will say that as throughout the world, we are commonly only assessing those who have noticable issues in their lives (And even then, they can be like me who never even connected the possibility that I could be on the spectrum as I had been going back and fore to doctors with the same complaints for most of my life, and they never found out that it was shutdowns I was having as I don't even think some of them had even heard of autistic shutdowns!), so we may miss at least 4% of those who would be on the spectrum if they were to be assessed.
But at the same time... Do we need to assess people who are happily getting on with their lives without any real problems? (They may be "Loners" by nature but they are happy with it and have no real issues).
The concern I have are people like me who have puzzled doctors for years as I may not be fully in touch with all my feelings so I may not have words to describe what I feel is happening, hence why even if the doctor kew about autistic shutdowns, would he or she have connected the two? One almost did in my past but at the time my own comprehension about what autism was was very different to what it actually is, so when he asked if I could be autistic, I said "No".

I actually still don't know if I am autistic or not but I 100% know I get shutdowns and partial shutdowns. I 100% know also that the can be triggered by smells or/and stress or anxiety or a sudden unexpected change of plan.

yes, pretty sure. i dont have any amnesia, and the first three or four I thought I was just being dramatic.


But then i had one where I rolled arond in spilled soup outside, in my favorite light jacket, so its sort of out of my control. I dont just drop I thrash around

i have seen that in others (when you said thrashing on the ground) and i think i know what you mean.

i wonder if there is something to minimize it, so you can stop it in advance.
medication maybe.. like how there is medication for my son's seizures because his brain is too hyper and excitable it causes seizures.. he feels things too deeply..
these meds he takes are to slow his brain down in that.. one of them is used for bipolar people too, as well as
insomnia .. because it causes sleepiness.

so maybe medication.. if describe to doctor (to refer to neurologist)... ??
otherwise something in the meantime if you can find..
to de-compress (relieve, de-stress) the brain slowly throughout the day, so everything is gradual ..
(not a cure of the problem, just a relief)
there should be something ..

one thing that might be helpful (it helped me with frozen and shutdown problems) is constantly trying to 'centre' yourself with your feelings (checking in) ..

and for that u have to train your brain over time,..


it's called emotional differentiation that my therapist taught me.. i googled it ..
in harvard business review they have a chart of feelings.. u check in daily before any stressful situation or whenever you
feel the stress come up and break
down the parts of the stress..
it';s tough at first if u have alexythemia but it works out (u sees the pattern, rationalize it ,then your brain links it better) over time..

she said that was important because if u check in throughout the day, daily (something NTs can usually manage automatically with emotional regulation)...you can try and work through 'why' and 'what can i do about it'
and that distracts your brain from the anxiety..
so you diffuse the stress before it can get to that extreme level.
however.. it isn't 100% guarantee.. just might ease it a tad...

give a sense of control (meltdowns u mentioned, being impossible to control) in itself that might reduce the issue

nothing is worse than meltdowns or shutdowns.

well meltdowns are kind of a relief after they are over, since it released a lot of the stress..

except how you cannot control meltdowns..
nor where it happens,--that is frightening.

esp if you are around other people and might be
treated as sub-human by them after they witness your meltdown or dissociation.

I have PTSD too and it sounds like it might be something like a panic attack or a flashback. It seems like sensory overstimulation for me can make me meltdown but people stuff gives me more like the trauma-induced stuff. Like light/sound/touch isn't going to induce the trauma stuff for me, that stuff...well I mean too many people like at once, noise, all of it put together can cause me to freak out whereas people stuff, like the really wacked manipulation that narcissists do (I am an adult child of two narcs) can cause me to react more along the lines of the trauma stuff. I have sexual assault history and if I get triggered that way I get really really sick and start throwing up a lot. I am just posting it because it sounded like you were being triggered emotionally...I react in a different way when I am triggered emotionally than when I get sensory overstimulation.

I am really glad for you that you realized this...I posted above but we really have to be wary of these people because ASD people reason from truth and narcs reason strictly from self-interest and the truth is just whatever they need it to be at the moment. My mother can put me in the fetal position in ten or fifteen minutes flat...I have to really try to avoid arguing with her about what the truth is. Narcissists have ZERO respect for the truth. I am so glad for you that you realized what they were and stopped trying to get them to see the truth because they have zero respect for it, it is like a toy they play with, and so are we if we let them mangle us.

One of my misdiagnoses is borderline personality disorder (because I'm female so they want us all to be mental not ASD) and I have been through DBT twice and I was amazed at how many women in my group didn't know about narcs. It's tragic, really, because they keep getting triggered by these master manipulators and they are the ones that are paying the price in their own life.

It is funny though I was totally ASD-like in DBT and I loved it, that's why I went through it twice. They give you tons of homework and paperwork which I loved and I was always coloring all the papers with my colored pens and high-lighters. There was another girl in there with schizophrenia (I have drug-induced schizophrenia from using a dissociative almost daily for four years) and she did the same thing. Which is weird because most of the BPD people in there hated the homework and all the worksheets but I loved it. Honestly I think DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) would be really good for alot of ASD people especially in terms of dealing with narcissistic parents & others.

One of my pet theories is that ASD people attract NPD's romantically because we can't pick up the red flags like other people do, they go right over our heads. Also a lot of us are obsessed with beauty and NPD's are attractive alot of the time just because they are pretty vain people. My ASD brother married an NPD to psychopath woman and she made his life miserable for ten years. He finally divorced her...a normal or NT person probably would have passed her by or gotten out a lot sooner but he couldn't put it together what was wrong with her and she manipulated him into the ground. It was really sad to watch. His current wife is like a small 'n' narc...she gets on my nerves but she takes care of him and stuff so as long as he's happy.

This trembling is called a “neurogenic tremors”. In humans we are taught at an early age to control and inhibit this natural trembling response. As a result, this core stress is allowed to build up and negatively affect our bodies.

David Berceli developed a form of exercise called “TRE - Trauma Releasing Exercises” that teaches individuals to generate “neurogenic tremors” to vent stored stress energy locked in the bodies core.

The following YouTube video provides a glimpse of this process.

thanks for all the replys, they have been quite helpful.

I would have replied back more, but I keep forgetting I made this thread and i think this is my third time back since I made it.