SCARY. Response to another thread but deserves a new thread

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I love belko61
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08 May 2020, 7:42 pm

skibum wrote:
I love belko61 wrote:
I have breathing issues on a small but real scale. My body is almost always in tension - I think it is because I am usually "on alert" when around people. I don't necessarily "feel" anxious, more like my body reacts without my brains knowledge. I have learned to control it most times but on occasion it is overwhelming. Almost like I am hyperventilating very slowly, and not aware until I have a huge red blotch growing up my neck and my shoulders are raised, and my legs are getting rigid.
It's a chicken and egg thing - either my nostrils narrow limiting my air passages, or the tension caused my nostrils to partially close. I've never figured it out.
I've also noticed when I concentrate too hard for too long my breathing can get very shallow.
So I almost always carry a bottle or Otrivin in my bag for emergencies. It's not good to take it too often so I use it sparingly (if I don't have time to control it slowly, or when it scares me because it's worse than normal).
The alternative to the Otrivin is open mouth breathing for a few minutes, and I usually just distract my brain to make it go away. Shake out my arms and shoulders, sing a few lines of a childhood song (childhood songs distract me quicker because of the memories I guess). Laugh about something. Then I just snap out of it and it clears up within a few minutes.
I read something that it might be a deviated septum but I've never had it checked. (caused by birth, or nose injury like a fall or punch)
I am sorry I missed your post earlier and am just seeing it now. I have two ideas that might possibly relate to you. First, I have been told by a couple of doctors that the hypertonia that I have is an Autism thing and that from their experiences every Autistic patient they have ever had has hypertonia to a degree. Mine just happens to be particularly severe. I have also spoken to several Autistics and Autism parents IRL who also say that they (the Autistics) or their Autistic children are less flexible and more muscularly tense than their nt friends and relatives. So that could explain your muscle tension.

Your hyperviligence could possibly be explained if you are a primal Autistic. I learned about primal Autism through a YouTube video by Carol Bird. I had never heard of that before but when I watched her video the description fit me so well. I don't know more about it than what I learned from her video but I recognized my traits so much in her description that I reccomend you checking it out.

Once I am back near my laptop I will try to put the links in. I can't do it on my phone


Hi skibum. I found that video very easily, thanks. I didn't watch the whole thing because at the start it defines non-primal. I am definitely all about analyzing and logic and rarely impulsive (unless my arm is twisted and it sounds like fun). Known by family as the voice of reason.



skibum
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08 May 2020, 8:21 pm

Thank you so much for posting the video

I like her stuff


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AnneOleson
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08 May 2020, 10:55 pm

skibum wrote:
A sleep study won't solve anything if I don't actually have sleep apnea and changing my behavior won't solve anything either.

I can see it now, learn to take deep breaths Skibum, well that's kind of the ******* problem isn't it. When I try to take a deep breath, I kind of pass out!

There are different types of sleep apnea - the more common obstructive apnea and central sleep apnea. I have central sleep apnea and it is related to the central nervous system. Your brain “forgets” to tell your body to breathe. (Your hypertonia is a CNS problem isn’t it?). I use a Bi-pap. It’s similar to a Cpap, but can be set at different pressures for inhalation and exhalation. I can only handle a light pressure to exhale against. It also has a special function that if I don’t inhale for a set period it will blow increasingly stronger breaths to make me breathe again. That gets it classified as a ventilator. Oxygen can be attached to it, but thankfully no type of intubation.



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08 May 2020, 11:18 pm

Oh wow. Thank you Anne. I didn't know about that. I had no idea that there were different kinds of sleep apnea. That is so helpful.

Yes, I believe that the hypertonia is a CNS issue even though doctors have not been able to tell me much about it. This is extremely helpful. Thank you.


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08 May 2020, 11:21 pm

I do feel like I forget to breathe quite a bit. Sometimes it almost seems like I forget how to breathe. One reason I love sports is that doing sports or singing helps me breathe. Maybe I have something similar to what you have.


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Karamazov
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09 May 2020, 3:49 am

Yes, I forget to breathe at times too: it seems to be connected to high levels of concentration/focus whether on a task or lost in my own thoughts.
I don’t know if it’s always been the case, or if it’s an adult development: I didn’t notice it myself, Mrs K did when we were first dating.
She finds it a bit scary.

Not sure if any of these are relevant: but they are respiratory system things so...
I’ve also been told I snore loudly if I’m lying on my back.
I have a deviated septum: enough for my nose to be a bit wonky, but not enough for my GP to think it’s an issue.
Also have had sinus issues for over a decade.
I had inhalers for asthma in my teens, and a breath measuring thing (like a big plastic syringe you blow into): but haven’t had any issues of that nature since secondary school.

I have noticed from recording myself playing guitar that the background noise of my breathing fades away, then I start making a “groaning/humming” noise in the back of my throat a beat or two later, then in another beat or two I either mess up the rhythm, play a wrong note or my tone goes really thin and nasty.
Maybe that’s just a normal counterproductive overabundance of concentration though, not of concern, or relevance here, in and of itself.



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09 May 2020, 5:15 am

Isn't it natural to stop breathing for a while while one is concentrating on something? I then suddenly realize and panic and take a gasp of breath! Haha.
Yes. I have also woken up at night not breathing and in a panic! Had it quite often a few years ago. It doesn't half wake me up! But there again, is just one of those things. My Mum gets it as well where if I am half asleep and hear her in the other room stop snoring fora minute or two and hear no breathing, I need to go in and wake her up, and she awakes with a gasp of air... Usually she does this by herself. The previous doctors we were with didn't seem concerned when we told them so it is not really an issue. Is one of those things I guess, as we are still here!



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09 May 2020, 5:59 am

MG
That sounds like the kind of sleep apnea that I was familiar with.


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09 May 2020, 6:11 am

Karamazov
I have also been told that sometimes I snore extremely loudly but not always. Ii sometimes wake up suddenly but not gasping but because my throat feels so parched that it hurts. But I also clench my jaw tightly. I think I suck my tongue as well. I used to grind my teeth but I became very conscious of that and wanted to stop so I started chewing my tongue in my sleep as well.

I also sometimes stop breathing when I concentrate as well. I think I stop for a lit longer than normal people stiop when they concentrate though.

Do you sometimes feel like you kind of forget how to actually breathe and you have to consciously kind of figure it out again? I sometimes feel something like that. I have to see if I notice if I hold my breath when I play piano or guitar. I wish I could play guitar as well as you. I am just a very beginner.

The first time I found out I hold my breath a lot was about twelve years ago when someone told me I wasn't breathing when I was drinking a bottle of tea. But I did not understand the extent of it til now. And now it seems to be pretty severe so I think it's gotten worse.


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Karamazov
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09 May 2020, 7:08 am

skibum wrote:
Karamazov
I have also been told that sometimes I snore extremely loudly but not always. Ii sometimes wake up suddenly but not gasping but because my throat feels so parched that it hurts. But I also clench my jaw tightly. I think I suck my tongue as well. I used to grind my teeth but I became very conscious of that and wanted to stop so I started chewing my tongue in my sleep as well.

I do regularly wake up parched, dehydrated, dizzy and woozy: takes me a long time to come round in the morning. I think that’s probably a body temperature thing though: I have to change the sheets more regularly than normal because I leave big white salt marks from sweating in them.
I was once told by a dentist that if I didn’t stop grinding my teeth so hard he’d take them all out because there’d be no point in repairing them. My girlfriend at the time said that I did grind them in my sleep.
I do consciously note the tension in my jaw as I’m going to bed these days and make an effort to relax it.
skibum wrote:
I also sometimes stop breathing when I concentrate as well. I think I stop for a lit longer than normal people stiop when they concentrate though.

Yes, I think it must be longer than normal with me too: otherwise why would Mrs K have brought it up? She’s not the health-panic type.
skibum wrote:
Do you sometimes feel like you kind of forget how to actually breathe and you have to consciously kind of figure it out again? I sometimes feel something like that. I have to see if I notice if I hold my breath when I play piano or guitar. I wish I could play guitar as well as you. I am just a very beginner.

I don’t think I’ve ever forgotten how to breathe: but I do occasionally become aware I’m not doing something, and then it takes some few seconds to realise that breathing is what I’ve forgotten to do.
Not sure if I play guitar very well! :lol: Just a few miniatures, mostly Tarrega and a bit of Sor: lighter less technically demanding pieces in both cases. Albeniz is fun, but I find his pieces exhausting to maintain in my practice regime.
Did try Bach once: it was a lot of fun, but I couldn’t pull it off well enough to share the attempt.
Have a few attempts at writing my own little pieces as well: they seem to work quite pleasantly, but aren’t anything more than salon level (which is probably my limit tbh: I’m happy there though!)
skibum wrote:
The first time I found out I hold my breath a lot was about twelve years ago when someone told me I wasn't breathing when I was drinking a bottle of tea. But I did not understand the extent of it til now. And now it seems to be pretty severe so I think it's gotten worse.
With me it was cuddling Mrs K in bed and she suddenly jumped up and shouted “breathe!” at me: which has become a regular occurrence.
It sounds like your issues here are more severe than mine.



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09 May 2020, 7:27 am

You definitely play very well compared to me! I sometimes still write as well. I was a composition major at uni. I can imagine Bach is a bear to master at guitar!

I find it so interesting that we have these similarities. It is really helpful to me to know this. I am hoping this shared info can help my new doctor figure me out as well.

I now wear some inexpensive disposable mouth guards when I sleep. They are very small and comfortable. I got a pack of them years ago at Walmart for $12 US dollars. You are supposed to toss them every three days but I called the company and she said that they only say that to people but you can use them as long as they don't fall apart. I have been using the same one for years. I soak it in hydrogen peroxide every morning to clean it. It is extremely effective and small enough that you can drink and speak clearly while wearing it. You might try to see if something like that helps you. I also tried breathe right nose strips. They seem to help but they are expensive. Even the knock off brands are pricey


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09 May 2020, 7:31 am

Do you yawn when you shouldn't? Sometimes I yawn not because I am exhausted but because I feel like I have to in order to get air. I just remembered that because I doing that now.


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09 May 2020, 7:34 am

I like what you said about you feel like there is something you are not doing and then you realize that what you are not doing is breathing. I feel that way too sometimes. It's like there is a brain disconnect or something.


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09 May 2020, 7:53 am

skibum wrote:

Do you sometimes feel like you kind of forget how to actually breathe and you have to consciously kind of figure it out again? I sometimes feel something like that.


Yes. Forgetting how to breathe for a moment. I also get this where I have forgotton how to walk where I either find I just stand there waiting for my mind to remember, or I will start to walk, then find my legs giving way as I somehow get my brain dissconnecting for a fraction of a second, and then my brain suddenly remembers and "Rescues" me before I end up on the floor. I have had moments like this doing other tasks too, like for a brief moment I may forget how to change gear while driving the car and start to put it into reverse while going forwards at speed. Then I laugh at myself. "What are you doing!" I say to myself as I drive along! I found it was happening to me while I hit burnout, but the walking bit where I almost end up on the floor, I get more often. Actually happened twice today. It is like I think to myself "Why is my leg not holding me up?" and I have to suddenly go into manual 'Thinking how to walk' override.
Hehe. It is funny when this happens. I think to myself "What are you doing?" Haha! I wonder what it looks like to others? \O/



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09 May 2020, 8:07 am

I have that forgetting how to walk or do other motor skills thing as well and sometimes it takes a good long time for my brain to reconnect. That often happens when I am overwhelmed. One thing I noticed though, I tend to not have issues when I drive. But sometimes I can fall asleep at the wheel so I am a super conscientious driver and never drive when I am exhausted. I will pull over and sleep in the car on the side of the road rather than risk driving exhausted


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09 May 2020, 8:27 am

I often can forget what I look like, but one of the more amusing ones is when someone asks what my name is ans I have to think to remember it! :P