Page 2 of 19 [ 294 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 19  Next

KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,617

28 Aug 2020, 4:13 pm

cberg wrote:
PS you are looking at a socialist.


Fantastic. Proud to be one. That's only an insult in one country on earth and maybe in a few backwards villages elsewhere.

You are looking like a capitalist.

You are the one who started this by implying that anyone who can't get by in the current system is 'infantile'.

Guilt hurts I guess.

You are respected enough to have a job. 85% of college grads in America who are autistic don't have jobs. That doesn't make them children.



cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:19 pm

You are putting words in my mouth. Yuck.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:20 pm

I for one don't think autism should be treated as something to fight about. That's an NT thing.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:22 pm

I don't think we need to split hairs about politics to agree that people should be accommodated in any civil society.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 43,526
Location: Stendec

28 Aug 2020, 4:23 pm

KT67 wrote:
...You are the one who started this by implying that anyone who can't get by in the current system is 'infantile'...
Evidence, please?  Exactly where in this thread did cberg imply such a thing, or did you simply infer it?

By the way, you are looking at a Capitalist.

For the record, cberg and I rarely get along.


_________________
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature, nor any ultimate evaluation of
human nature beyond that which we project onto others, individuals should only be judged or defined
by their actions and choices, and not by what we imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:24 pm

Fnord doesn't read what I say either. Join the club.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 43,526
Location: Stendec

28 Aug 2020, 4:26 pm

cberg wrote:
Fnord doesn't read what I say either. Join the club.
Oh, I read it alright; I just don't always agree with it.

I'm also trying to stick up for you in this thread.


_________________
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature, nor any ultimate evaluation of
human nature beyond that which we project onto others, individuals should only be judged or defined
by their actions and choices, and not by what we imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:26 pm

I'm a hacker, I don't really hold your natural instincts to tear me a new one against you.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:27 pm

... Nor am I unaccustomed to being treated like a child despite my adult experience.


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,180
Location: Boulder CO

28 Aug 2020, 4:28 pm

Do small children guzzle black coffee when you antagonize them?


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 43,526
Location: Stendec

28 Aug 2020, 4:34 pm

Right now, I don't really feel that you need to have a "new one" torn, and when someone seems to be inferring that which you did not imply, I'll take your side of the argument.

You ARE big enough to handle it on your own, so I'll just sit back and watch.


Image


_________________
Since there is no singular, absolute definition of human nature, nor any ultimate evaluation of
human nature beyond that which we project onto others, individuals should only be judged or defined
by their actions and choices, and not by what we imagine their intentions and motivations to be.


ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,555

28 Aug 2020, 4:36 pm

I think there's some truth on both sides of the coin. Personally, to a large extent I simply avoid mainstream society because in my experience it's often just too hard and painful for me to stay afloat in it - I can usually get by without standing out as too weird, but applying all the necessary "fitting in" strategies (for example, having to go along with their uncomfortable rituals and hiding the fact that I'd like to tell them where to shove them) often leaves me feeling abused and wondering what the point was. By filtering out the more judgemental and ableist types and gravitating towards oddballs and outliers, I can have something like a social life without so much discomfort. And I don't think I'll ever quite forgive the world for being such a crappy place in general for an Aspie to have to live in, and although it's not rational, I can't quite escape the feeling that it's them who should change, not me, or at least meet me half way. To my mind, normal is often piss poor.

On the other hand, I'd not feel right if I didn't make the occasional excursion into the mainstream just to "keep my eye in." I'm very keen on pushing the envelope, as long as I limit it to gentle pressure on myself. I don't think I'll ever quite accept that I can't do this or that. One of the most important things to me is that I will be treated as an equal, though I think that large swathes of society are quite authoritarian and will never stop the downward pressure on the status of any individual who hasn't already achieved a particularly high position. I'm not interested in accepting that hierarchical jungle and fighting my way up it, so if it's not egalitarian, I'm mostly against it and would rather work to reform it, or even to bring it down, than embrace it.



Nades
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1930
Gender: Male
Posts: 202
Location: wales

28 Aug 2020, 4:42 pm

KT67 wrote:
cberg wrote:
PS you are looking at a socialist.


Fantastic. Proud to be one. That's only an insult in one country on earth and maybe in a few backwards villages elsewhere.

You are looking like a capitalist.

You are the one who started this by implying that anyone who can't get by in the current system is 'infantile'.

Guilt hurts I guess.

You are respected enough to have a job. 85% of college grads in America who are autistic don't have jobs. That doesn't make them children.


Not everyone can get by in the current system but more to the point I feel like a lot of them can't because they never even tried to see what they are capable of.



KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,617

28 Aug 2020, 4:51 pm

Nades wrote:
KT67 wrote:
cberg wrote:
PS you are looking at a socialist.


Fantastic. Proud to be one. That's only an insult in one country on earth and maybe in a few backwards villages elsewhere.

You are looking like a capitalist.

You are the one who started this by implying that anyone who can't get by in the current system is 'infantile'.

Guilt hurts I guess.

You are respected enough to have a job. 85% of college grads in America who are autistic don't have jobs. That doesn't make them children.


Not everyone can get by in the current system but more to the point I feel like a lot of them can't because they never even tried to see what they are capable of.


In that case you're not talking about me because I applied for many jobs and went to as many interviews as I was invited to (not that many ftr) before I became severely mentally ill due to the stress of it. I got an education and sacrificed a more enjoyable MA in order to get an MA in a vocational field.

Fact is, society didn't want me and that made me ill. Fortunately we have an NHS so in some small way, I'm here today. That 'small way' being that I'm alive and relatively healthy so long as I take medicine and don't try to mask myself.

I was intelligent. I wanted to get by in a capitalist system. I changed everything I could about myself to achieve it - and shrunk down what was 'me' in the process. It made me ill.

But part of healing was learning that all human beings whether 'successful' or not, whether NT or autistic, whether 'cringy' or 'cool', have value.



Nades
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1930
Gender: Male
Posts: 202
Location: wales

28 Aug 2020, 4:57 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
I think there's some truth on both sides of the coin. Personally, to a large extent I simply avoid mainstream society because in my experience it's often just too hard and painful for me to stay afloat in it - I can usually get by without standing out as too weird, but applying all the necessary "fitting in" strategies (for example, having to go along with their uncomfortable rituals and hiding the fact that I'd like to tell them where to shove them) often leaves me feeling abused and wondering what the point was. By filtering out the more judgemental and ableist types and gravitating towards oddballs and outliers, I can have something like a social life without so much discomfort. And I don't think I'll ever quite forgive the world for being such a crappy place in general for an Aspie to have to live in, and although it's not rational, I can't quite escape the feeling that it's them who should change, not me, or at least meet me half way. To my mind, normal is often piss poor.

On the other hand, I'd not feel right if I didn't make the occasional excursion into the mainstream just to "keep my eye in." I'm very keen on pushing the envelope, as long as I limit it to gentle pressure on myself. I don't think I'll ever quite accept that I can't do this or that. One of the most important things to me is that I will be treated as an equal, though I think that large swathes of society are quite authoritarian and will never stop the downward pressure on the status of any individual who hasn't already achieved a particularly high position. I'm not interested in accepting that hierarchical jungle and fighting my way up it, so if it's not egalitarian, I'm mostly against it and would rather work to reform it, or even to bring it down, than embrace it.


A little bit of give and take from both sides is ideal. I've sadly seen many fellow aspies who just use their diagnosis as an excuse to plead perpetual invalid status to everyone they meet and they're not even subtle about it. One woman in particular just sat at home and if she needed to travel just expected her aunt to pick her up in her car.

In the UK we have a motorbike training scheme called a CBT which is basically a days training on a motorbike, it's not even a test and it's almost impossible to fail. When i recommended she tried doing the training and getting a cheap moped so she didnt need to call her aunt every time she wanted to travel more than a mile her reply was basically "what? I have autism, I'll crash" and I was thinking. .....have you even considered how annoying you must be for your aunt and how much independance a simple cheap moped would give you? Talk about shooting herself in the foot.

Anyway, she still needs her aunt to drive her everywhere and she's 34 years old.



Nades
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1930
Gender: Male
Posts: 202
Location: wales

28 Aug 2020, 5:04 pm

KT67 wrote:
Nades wrote:
KT67 wrote:
cberg wrote:
PS you are looking at a socialist.


Fantastic. Proud to be one. That's only an insult in one country on earth and maybe in a few backwards villages elsewhere.

You are looking like a capitalist.

You are the one who started this by implying that anyone who can't get by in the current system is 'infantile'.

Guilt hurts I guess.

You are respected enough to have a job. 85% of college grads in America who are autistic don't have jobs. That doesn't make them children.


Not everyone can get by in the current system but more to the point I feel like a lot of them can't because they never even tried to see what they are capable of.


In that case you're not talking about me because I applied for many jobs and went to as many interviews as I was invited to (not that many ftr) before I became severely mentally ill due to the stress of it. I got an education and sacrificed a more enjoyable MA in order to get an MA in a vocational field.

Fact is, society didn't want me and that made me ill. Fortunately we have an NHS so in some small way, I'm here today. That 'small way' being that I'm alive and relatively healthy so long as I take medicine and don't try to mask myself.

I was intelligent. I wanted to get by in a capitalist system. I changed everything I could about myself to achieve it - and shrunk down what was 'me' in the process. It made me ill.

But part of healing was learning that all human beings whether 'successful' or not, whether NT or autistic, whether 'cringy' or 'cool', have value.


I'm talking about the people who can but don't for whatever reason. The biggest reason being that they've been told not to even try because society wants to wrap them in bubble wrap.