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Mountain Goat
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15 Sep 2020, 6:56 pm

Nades wrote:
I imagine to most of you it's no mystery that Autism has some degree of a "childlike" stigma to it. Indeed, most of the social groups for people with autism are mostly focused on parents with autistic children. All the social media groups relating to autism I have joined are almost exclusively parent and child orientated and very little is for adults despite the fact most people with autism are over 18. I have managed to find out very good group for adults with autism in my area but that's so far it.

Another issue (at least in my eyes) that has been grating on me is this sudden increase in making public places autism friendly despite personally thinking it does more harm than good and is far too specific to work in practice. I think all it does is make the stigma worse by people wrongly assuming autistic people can only cope in society if society conforms to them. Not only does that concept slightly annoy me but I think long term it harms the people it's supposed to help by effectively trying to make a societal and social "bubble" for them to live in that's removed from the norm.

Over the years I have seen autistic adults who make me wonder just what they could have achieved if it wasn't for the never ending shielding from their parents (Some parents are FAR worse than others). It's almost like some of them have been stuck in an arrested development where they question their own ability every time they're confronted with a challenge despite them being perfectly capable deep down inside. Driving licences, part time work, intimacy with a partner, just...taking on a challenge or going outside their comfort zone a bit, a lot of those recommendations have been shot down by some autistic friends and I wonder why.

I'm not deluded however, I know full well not all people with Aspergers or autism in general can blend in seamlessly with society, autism is autism and it effects everyone different including myself but Iv'e always thought it's good to at least try.

I have no idea what anyone's ideas are on confronting "normie" society instead of hiding to a limited extent from it.

Has anyone else noticed or had the same thoughts as me on the subject?


Interesting. (I am from Wales. You mentioned a group for adults? I am not very good at groups but I would like to ask questions, though it has to be when my mind is in question mode).

I have not been assessed yet so I did not go through the "Being held back" stage due to being on the spectrum... But this has caused other issues instead which might have been avoided had I have known from an early age.
In a way I was held back because of a lack of understanding where if it had been known about and explained to the teachers then I think I would have done better in school then I did, because I tend to learn certain things differently then others. I did not know this at the time.
To be honest, if my parents knew, I would have really benifitted far more if I was home schooled, and my Mum would have made the perfect teacher! She is just soo tallented, and my mind works in similar ways as hers does. (Somehow my mind and my Dads mind were on different wavelengths. He loved me I know. Understanding each other could at times be a little restrictive but we managed. My Mum was so in tune with me it was easy).
I am glad as I have had good parents. My Dad passed away a decade ago. Mums still here. :)

What would not have been good for me was to put me in a special school. I actually nearly ended up in one once, and if it wasn't for my intelligent quick thinking I would have been in one! It would have been a disaster as despite some limitations in certain ways, I am actually quite intelligent. Not quite the top of the class, but I can hold my own. "Above average" is the term I use, so if I did attend a special school the way I was told they were set up in those days, I would have been soo hampered in a learning way that it would have been a disaster!

Negatives about school were anxiety, stress and bullying. Homeschooling would have avoided them for me, and no dissrespect to the teachers, but because I am on the same wavelength as my Mum, I would have ended up more advanced in most subjects then I was being in school, as my Mum is a very intelligent person.


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firemonkey
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16 Sep 2020, 12:54 am

Nades wrote:
firemonkey wrote:

The trouble is you've already decided that most of us are undeserving when it comes to help and support.


No I didn't. Once again I said nothing whatsoever about removing support from people who need it. Never once said it, never will say it and frankly it's starting to get old hurling this accusation against me. I also never said there was some threshold for getting help too..........ever.



You may not have directly said it, but to any remotely intelligent person your position is all too clear. Post after post from you uses derogatory language either about aspies or the people that care for them .


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You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


Nades
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16 Sep 2020, 1:04 am

firemonkey wrote:
Nades wrote:
firemonkey wrote:

The trouble is you've already decided that most of us are undeserving when it comes to help and support.


No I didn't. Once again I said nothing whatsoever about removing support from people who need it. Never once said it, never will say it and frankly it's starting to get old hurling this accusation against me. I also never said there was some threshold for getting help too..........ever.



You may not have directly said it, but to any remotely intelligent person your position is all too clear. Post after post from you uses derogatory language either about aspies or the people that care for them .


So you're assuming? And yes I do look on some aspies with contempt but if you double check, only the ones that exploit others. I also look down on people who just throw suport at them irrespective of if they need it or if it harms them. In my eyes that's fine.



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16 Sep 2020, 3:20 am

If it was worth blocking you I would, but past experience has told me the blocking system here is basically useless . What I don't need is to read mindless and offensive crap that involves wholesale denigration of people on the spectrum while hiding dishonestly behind "I don't mean the genuinely disabled' . It's dishonest because your posts strongly indicate very, very few would pass muster as being 'genuinely disabled' in your eyes. Your agenda if brought to fruition would see many not getting the help and support they need and deserve.


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You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


Nades
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16 Sep 2020, 4:08 am

firemonkey wrote:
If it was worth blocking you I would, but past experience has told me the blocking system here is basically useless . What I don't need is to read mindless and offensive crap that involves wholesale denigration of people on the spectrum while hiding dishonestly behind "I don't mean the genuinely disabled' . It's dishonest because your posts strongly indicate very, very few would pass muster as being 'genuinely disabled' in your eyes. Your agenda if brought to fruition would see many not getting the help and support they need and deserve.


Once again I've never mentioned anything about what I deem to be a "disabled threshold" and I never said anything whatsoever as to when support should be removed from people. What I said was that autistic people should try somethig new (and ideally pushed a little more than than they currently are) that they might not initially think they can do and that too much support might make them less self reliant. Beyond that you seem to have taken a wrong turn with what you're interpretating I said



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16 Sep 2020, 7:32 am

Nades wrote:
Pieplup wrote:
Nades wrote:
1. Being true to yourself is subjective. Sometimes being true to yourself can be harmful I'm the long run.
I agree with this, but often times being true to yourself isn't really true and that can be harmful[/color]
Nades]2. I have no idea of the stats. What I have noticed in person is far to many autistics with helicopter parents who do everything regardless of how small. I sense many don't need a "support overdose" but because that's effectively their norm that they've always had, they just roll with. It can get to the point where they just don't attempt to look after themselves. I've seen it in person and I've seen the stress it causes people. It ain't cool to be one of "those" aspies and I look at them with the contempt that they deserve. They expose themselves quickly and I don't associate with them at all anymore.[/quote] If you've seen this you'd also see the number of aspies who work on their issues regardless of said helicopter parenting and the aspies who really need that level of support and you wouldnt know it because you aren't omniscient. Secondly. I have great problem with you saying you refuse to associate with them. That speaks volume about your character imo.
>Oh, I've managed to work through my difficulties and you haven't you clearly aren't worth being around and are pathetic.
That mentality disgusts me. I wouldn't say there is anything else in the autistic community I despise more than this mentality. It's not as black and white as you are making it. Your proposed solutions could often have negative impacts on said persons live that you couldn't foresee. You seem to think that throwing people in the deep end to sink or swim is a good idea. and it simply isn't people need to be prepared and work their way up for it. This entire mentality is toxic. Your welcome to not associate with me at all either. I'd be glad for it.


[quote="Nades wrote:
3 They get a free pass because those disabilities are much more black and white. Aspies are unusual. We are usually fully cognitively able and physically able. What holds us back is a mix of poor social skills, usually excessive anxiety, fear of doing something different and sensory issues if it effects an aspie particularly badly. These traits (other then the last) doesnt preclude an aspie from pretty much doing anything. The first three are textbook aspie traits and can be managed and reduced in a great number for Aspies if they decided to stick with something new for long enough in my personal opinion.

This idea is a load of horses**t. I couldn't say ti better than that. I can't think of a single that that is true about this post. You know the aspie isn't going to be prevented from being a stunning socialite who can dazzle anyone with their superior social skills. It's going to make it absolutely easy for them to work as a construction worker surrounded by constant noise. It's going to make it super simple for them to move around constantly fi the job requires it. You know they'd be able to do that construction job with constant drilling and loud noises if they just tried hard enough right. Of course that's the answer. I'm going to go sign up for a construction job right now. This is so absurd that it's funny. Like do you even hear the things you are saying right now.
Nades wrote:
4. Yes they are very poor but are all these aspies genuinely unable to find decent work or are just assuming so and never apply for a lot of jobs? It's one of those things that can't be answered but completely changes the context. Overall aspies are not as well suited for jobs but I think more are able to settle into a job than the stats suggest.

You are literally making a massive assumption based on zero evidence and 100% personal bias. and It's not even just an aspie thing loads of people have degrees and can't get a job beyond minimum wage. I think the problem with the stats is that a good portion of the unemployed aspies are unable to work or aren't seeking work. And people take that to mean they are seeking to work when they just aren't [/coor]
Nades wrote:
5. That's outside the context of the thread really. It's subjective to the individual but will overtime become apparent if they really are hopeless at particular tasks. I'm useless at shop work but I only discovered after trying to work in a shop for a few months so I don't apply for shop work anymore. I never said anyone has to keep trying if they discover they're not good at it after they tried for a while and failed.

[color=#0077cc] If only the world worked that way where if you are not good at something you don't have to try at it. the reality is peopel don't have the luxury of not doing things you are bad at. Sometimes you are forced tod o things that you are bad at because there is no other option. It's kind of weird that you think that's true considering your general mentality


So? .I've seen autistics who jump on the bus when it suits them but insist on pressuring others into driving for them with seemingly with no explanation on trips they've made before by bus. Just because they're an aspie doesn't mean they can treat people like their personal servant and it doesn't somehow make it OK. What I'm saying is based on personal experience from aspies I've met face to face many times. Not on this website. I'm free to judge them how I like and if i sense they're freeloading or explotting others then good riddance to them from my social circle. Aspies can be jerks too and many I've met know full well what they request will be granted because others struggle to say no to an aspie.

Compulsory job training and 3 days free driving lessons after the final year of school is the most extreme I've mentioned. Stop exaggerating the harm that will cause. Why even go to school if you can't handle that? How is it any different from the many compulsory lessons in school, compulsory swimming lessons in junior school, compulsory work experience in year 10?

Where have I mentioned forcing an aspie to work in a job they're really struggling with?

I know employment is very poor for Aspies, but do you have proof about the number of applications they make? My personal opinion is that many Aspies never try to enter the world of work and never tried to find a job that suits them. Finding stats on just how many apply for work is probably very difficult and I imagine none have been collected.
It's not what you are suggesting but the mentality behind it which is the problem. You are implying that you know best and that you alone can understand what's best for others. Secondly, In my country they don't have any of that so it's very different the closest thing they have is the community service hours which i'm not even ure if they are a requirement anymore.
I'm pretty sure you used the words throw them in the deep end. See that's the problem it's not always as simple as quiting a job. In my country once you it will become a lot harder for you to get the benefits you once had. And a lot of times you'd end up poorer unless you got a job that's relatively well paying. 50-60k a year and as such It's not as easy as quiting a job it can have lasting repercussions on people's lives that you simply aren't aware of cause you aren't f**king omniscient and That's without bringing up the negative health effects over stress that peopel aren't prepared for can have on people long term. Please explain how dooming people to sink further into poverty is helping them?


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Nades
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16 Sep 2020, 7:53 am

Pieplup wrote:
Nades wrote:
Pieplup wrote:
Nades wrote:
1. Being true to yourself is subjective. Sometimes being true to yourself can be harmful I'm the long run.
I agree with this, but often times being true to yourself isn't really true and that can be harmful[/color]
Nades]2. I have no idea of the stats. What I have noticed in person is far to many autistics with helicopter parents who do everything regardless of how small. I sense many don't need a "support overdose" but because that's effectively their norm that they've always had, they just roll with. It can get to the point where they just don't attempt to look after themselves. I've seen it in person and I've seen the stress it causes people. It ain't cool to be one of "those" aspies and I look at them with the contempt that they deserve. They expose themselves quickly and I don't associate with them at all anymore.[/quote] If you've seen this you'd also see the number of aspies who work on their issues regardless of said helicopter parenting and the aspies who really need that level of support and you wouldnt know it because you aren't omniscient. Secondly. I have great problem with you saying you refuse to associate with them. That speaks volume about your character imo.
>Oh, I've managed to work through my difficulties and you haven't you clearly aren't worth being around and are pathetic.
That mentality disgusts me. I wouldn't say there is anything else in the autistic community I despise more than this mentality. It's not as black and white as you are making it. Your proposed solutions could often have negative impacts on said persons live that you couldn't foresee. You seem to think that throwing people in the deep end to sink or swim is a good idea. and it simply isn't people need to be prepared and work their way up for it. This entire mentality is toxic. Your welcome to not associate with me at all either. I'd be glad for it.


[quote="Nades wrote:
3 They get a free pass because those disabilities are much more black and white. Aspies are unusual. We are usually fully cognitively able and physically able. What holds us back is a mix of poor social skills, usually excessive anxiety, fear of doing something different and sensory issues if it effects an aspie particularly badly. These traits (other then the last) doesnt preclude an aspie from pretty much doing anything. The first three are textbook aspie traits and can be managed and reduced in a great number for Aspies if they decided to stick with something new for long enough in my personal opinion.

This idea is a load of horses**t. I couldn't say ti better than that. I can't think of a single that that is true about this post. You know the aspie isn't going to be prevented from being a stunning socialite who can dazzle anyone with their superior social skills. It's going to make it absolutely easy for them to work as a construction worker surrounded by constant noise. It's going to make it super simple for them to move around constantly fi the job requires it. You know they'd be able to do that construction job with constant drilling and loud noises if they just tried hard enough right. Of course that's the answer. I'm going to go sign up for a construction job right now. This is so absurd that it's funny. Like do you even hear the things you are saying right now.
Nades wrote:
4. Yes they are very poor but are all these aspies genuinely unable to find decent work or are just assuming so and never apply for a lot of jobs? It's one of those things that can't be answered but completely changes the context. Overall aspies are not as well suited for jobs but I think more are able to settle into a job than the stats suggest.

You are literally making a massive assumption based on zero evidence and 100% personal bias. and It's not even just an aspie thing loads of people have degrees and can't get a job beyond minimum wage. I think the problem with the stats is that a good portion of the unemployed aspies are unable to work or aren't seeking work. And people take that to mean they are seeking to work when they just aren't [/coor]
Nades wrote:
5. That's outside the context of the thread really. It's subjective to the individual but will overtime become apparent if they really are hopeless at particular tasks. I'm useless at shop work but I only discovered after trying to work in a shop for a few months so I don't apply for shop work anymore. I never said anyone has to keep trying if they discover they're not good at it after they tried for a while and failed.

[color=#0077cc] If only the world worked that way where if you are not good at something you don't have to try at it. the reality is peopel don't have the luxury of not doing things you are bad at. Sometimes you are forced tod o things that you are bad at because there is no other option. It's kind of weird that you think that's true considering your general mentality


So? .I've seen autistics who jump on the bus when it suits them but insist on pressuring others into driving for them with seemingly with no explanation on trips they've made before by bus. Just because they're an aspie doesn't mean they can treat people like their personal servant and it doesn't somehow make it OK. What I'm saying is based on personal experience from aspies I've met face to face many times. Not on this website. I'm free to judge them how I like and if i sense they're freeloading or explotting others then good riddance to them from my social circle. Aspies can be jerks too and many I've met know full well what they request will be granted because others struggle to say no to an aspie.

Compulsory job training and 3 days free driving lessons after the final year of school is the most extreme I've mentioned. Stop exaggerating the harm that will cause. Why even go to school if you can't handle that? How is it any different from the many compulsory lessons in school, compulsory swimming lessons in junior school, compulsory work experience in year 10?

Where have I mentioned forcing an aspie to work in a job they're really struggling with?

I know employment is very poor for Aspies, but do you have proof about the number of applications they make? My personal opinion is that many Aspies never try to enter the world of work and never tried to find a job that suits them. Finding stats on just how many apply for work is probably very difficult and I imagine none have been collected.
It's not what you are suggesting but the mentality behind it which is the problem. You are implying that you know best and that you alone can understand what's best for others. Secondly, In my country they don't have any of that so it's very different the closest thing they have is the community service hours which i'm not even ure if they are a requirement anymore.
I'm pretty sure you used the words throw them in the deep end. See that's the problem it's not always as simple as quiting a job. In my country once you it will become a lot harder for you to get the benefits you once had. And a lot of times you'd end up poorer unless you got a job that's relatively well paying. 50-60k a year and as such It's not as easy as quiting a job it can have lasting repercussions on people's lives that you simply aren't aware of cause you aren't f**king omniscient and That's without bringing up the negative health effects over stress that peopel aren't prepared for can have on people long term. Please explain how dooming people to sink further into poverty is helping them?


For the 50th thousand time this thread has nothing to do with welfare. Its about the many aspies out there who are having so much misguided support that its making them struggle adjusting to life. There is a big difference between throwing people in the deep end and fishing them out if they're in trouble (like I've always intended) and letting them drown (like everyone else seems to think)



Jiheisho
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16 Sep 2020, 11:05 am

Nades wrote:
Its about the many aspies out there who are having so much misguided support that its making them struggle adjusting to life.


I think where the problem might be is who are these people and how many are there? I have read many studies and articles on those with autism and the difficultly they are having. I have not seen anything to suggest that people are getting too much support and that support is causing them problems. The problem seems to be the opposite: there is a problem of under diagnosis and a lack of support.

While I like Temple Grandin and find her story remarkable, I don't think her point of view is anything more than simply a personal view and not grounded in any kind of reality. While she is a proponent of a similar view, it is also sad to see as she does not recognize the advantages she had in dealing with her autism and seems to think there was nothing special about it and others have the same access to the resources she had/has. I kind of cringe when she says autistics just need a someone to teach them manners and push them out into the world.



Last edited by Jiheisho on 16 Sep 2020, 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KT67
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16 Sep 2020, 11:44 am

I've come to the conclusion Nades genuinely isn't implying anything.

He's autistic. Autistic people often say what we mean and can be taken at our word. Autistic people are also often more blunt than NTs are.

Trouble is...

Other people will say similar things, not just NTs but NT politicians. Biggest liars out there. And they don't mean it. They know people will fall for it, that's the trouble.

They mean the implications. The politicians, the tabloids, the spokespeople for this kind of mindset.

It has historical baggage when they use it. The undeserving poor versus the deserving poor etc. But I don't think Nades means that, especially not on a conscious level.

Trouble with anecdotes out of context is, they mean nothing. That's why I always try to provide social history (which might be read as 'being political') in with what I'm saying.



Nades
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16 Sep 2020, 12:28 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Nades wrote:
I imagine to most of you it's no mystery that Autism has some degree of a "childlike" stigma to it. Indeed, most of the social groups for people with autism are mostly focused on parents with autistic children. All the social media groups relating to autism I have joined are almost exclusively parent and child orientated and very little is for adults despite the fact most people with autism are over 18. I have managed to find out very good group for adults with autism in my area but that's so far it.

Another issue (at least in my eyes) that has been grating on me is this sudden increase in making public places autism friendly despite personally thinking it does more harm than good and is far too specific to work in practice. I think all it does is make the stigma worse by people wrongly assuming autistic people can only cope in society if society conforms to them. Not only does that concept slightly annoy me but I think long term it harms the people it's supposed to help by effectively trying to make a societal and social "bubble" for them to live in that's removed from the norm.

Over the years I have seen autistic adults who make me wonder just what they could have achieved if it wasn't for the never ending shielding from their parents (Some parents are FAR worse than others). It's almost like some of them have been stuck in an arrested development where they question their own ability every time they're confronted with a challenge despite them being perfectly capable deep down inside. Driving licences, part time work, intimacy with a partner, just...taking on a challenge or going outside their comfort zone a bit, a lot of those recommendations have been shot down by some autistic friends and I wonder why.

I'm not deluded however, I know full well not all people with Aspergers or autism in general can blend in seamlessly with society, autism is autism and it effects everyone different including myself but Iv'e always thought it's good to at least try.

I have no idea what anyone's ideas are on confronting "normie" society instead of hiding to a limited extent from it.

Has anyone else noticed or had the same thoughts as me on the subject?


Interesting. (I am from Wales. You mentioned a group for adults? I am not very good at groups but I would like to ask questions, though it has to be when my mind is in question mode).

I have not been assessed yet so I did not go through the "Being held back" stage due to being on the spectrum... But this has caused other issues instead which might have been avoided had I have known from an early age.
In a way I was held back because of a lack of understanding where if it had been known about and explained to the teachers then I think I would have done better in school then I did, because I tend to learn certain things differently then others. I did not know this at the time.
To be honest, if my parents knew, I would have really benifitted far more if I was home schooled, and my Mum would have made the perfect teacher! She is just soo tallented, and my mind works in similar ways as hers does. (Somehow my mind and my Dads mind were on different wavelengths. He loved me I know. Understanding each other could at times be a little restrictive but we managed. My Mum was so in tune with me it was easy).
I am glad as I have had good parents. My Dad passed away a decade ago. Mums still here. :)

What would not have been good for me was to put me in a special school. I actually nearly ended up in one once, and if it wasn't for my intelligent quick thinking I would have been in one! It would have been a disaster as despite some limitations in certain ways, I am actually quite intelligent. Not quite the top of the class, but I can hold my own. "Above average" is the term I use, so if I did attend a special school the way I was told they were set up in those days, I would have been soo hampered in a learning way that it would have been a disaster!

Negatives about school were anxiety, stress and bullying. Homeschooling would have avoided them for me, and no dissrespect to the teachers, but because I am on the same wavelength as my Mum, I would have ended up more advanced in most subjects then I was being in school, as my Mum is a very intelligent person.


The main one I was in went a couple of years ago. The new one (when I can visit) is in Cardiff.

I was in special needs for the first three years of comprehensive school. It did nothing at all to help me. The woman in charge of the special needs group was wonderful but while she got it right most of the time she misassessed some students. After 3 years I moved into mainstream where I felt better suited and I think it helped. I ended up with a full sweep of GCSE's other than Welsh which I hated.

Home schooling is a tricky subject too. It really depends on the parents. In your case it sounds great but with more "basic" parents to put it nicely it might end in complete disaster.



KT67
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16 Sep 2020, 2:59 pm

Separating kids just for being dyslexic does seem excessive and not helpful tbh. Unless there was something else going on?

I've only ever known about people separated for things like break or maybe physio.

Or extremely disabled kids put into special schools. My mum used to teach in those.

I asked as a kid 'why do they teach these [Severe Learning Disabilities] kids?'. Mum said education is about much more than grades and jobs. Even if a kid really won't be able to learn very much, it's still important to teach them to the best of their ability.



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17 Sep 2020, 12:34 am

Nades wrote:
For the 50th thousand time this thread has nothing to do with welfare. Its about the many aspies out there who are having so much misguided support that its making them struggle adjusting to life. There is a big difference between throwing people in the deep end and fishing them out if they're in trouble (like I've always intended) and letting them drown (like everyone else seems to think)

Doesn't matter whether it's about welfare or not. It affects welfare adn would affect their lives. It might not be the way you intended but again your not f**king omniscient. Who are you to decide who can and can't do something.


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17 Sep 2020, 2:32 am

Jiheisho wrote:
Nades wrote:
Its about the many aspies out there who are having so much misguided support that its making them struggle adjusting to life.


I think where the problem might be is who are these people and how many are there? I have read many studies and articles on those with autism and the difficultly they are having. I have not seen anything to suggest that people are getting too much support and that support is causing them problems. The problem seems to be the opposite: there is a problem of under diagnosis and a lack of support.



I got very little support before I moved to Wiltshire . That's the norm for those with chronic and severe mental illness in the UK,unless there is someone in their corner advocating for them .

The result of that was becoming increasingly self neglectful, although that took my depot nurse here in Wiltshire to say so for me to acknowledge that. I didn't realise it when it was actually happening .

At 60 , thanks to a stepdaughter I can never praise highly enough , I started to get better support. Support I'd needed for years. I therefore don't need to be crudely bludgeoned with the support shaming, ignorant crap that Nades spews out.

More of us have had years without adequate support than are milking the system. If Nades really cared about things he wouldn't be taking a broad brush snipe at people with ASD etc, but would be getting the message out there that far too many are not getting the help and support they need.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


Last edited by firemonkey on 17 Sep 2020, 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nades
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17 Sep 2020, 2:39 am

Pieplup wrote:
Nades wrote:
For the 50th thousand time this thread has nothing to do with welfare. Its about the many aspies out there who are having so much misguided support that its making them struggle adjusting to life. There is a big difference between throwing people in the deep end and fishing them out if they're in trouble (like I've always intended) and letting them drown (like everyone else seems to think)

Doesn't matter whether it's about welfare or not. It affects welfare adn would affect their lives. It might not be the way you intended but again your not f**king omniscient. Who are you to decide who can and can't do something.


Who are you to tell people they can't do something? I'm not deciding what they can't and can't do too, have you not read anything I've said? I've said time and time again that if they can't do whatever it is then they don't have to carry on doing it.



Nades
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17 Sep 2020, 4:11 am

firemonkey wrote:
Jiheisho wrote:
Nades wrote:
Its about the many aspies out there who are having so much misguided support that its making them struggle adjusting to life.


I think where the problem might be is who are these people and how many are there? I have read many studies and articles on those with autism and the difficultly they are having. I have not seen anything to suggest that people are getting too much support and that support is causing them problems. The problem seems to be the opposite: there is a problem of under diagnosis and a lack of support.



I got very little support before I moved to Wiltshire . That's the norm for those with chronic and severe mental illness in the UK,unless there is someone in their corner advocating for them .

The result of that was becoming increasingly self neglectful, although that took my depot nurse here in Wiltshire to say so for me to acknowledge that. I didn't realise it when it was actually happening .

At 60 , thanks to a stepdaughter I can never praise highly enough , I started to get better support. Support I'd needed for years. I therefore don't need to be crudely bludgeoned with the support shaming, ignorant crap that Nades spews out.

More of us have had years without adequate support than are milking the system. If Nades really cared about things he wouldn't be taking a broad brush snipe at people with ASD etc, but would be getting the message out there that far too many are not getting the help and support they need.


Where have I ever said to shame people who are in need of support?

Secondly I've known full well that ASD is under diagnosed and getting any form of help often takes many years...but we're already at the stage where despite the reluctance if health services to diagnose and properly (emphasis on properly) support people with autism there are already ocassionally massive over accommodations from the general public. Jazz hands, safe rooms, someone shadowing you constantly. It feels like being back in juniour school once a group of people cotton on I'm autistic. And on the subject of broad generalisations, the support is a broad generalisation that all autistic people somehow need more support than many need.



firemonkey
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17 Sep 2020, 4:58 am

Your whole approach has been to suggest generally and very vehemently that people are getting too much support. To any reasonable person that can, without doubt, be seen as wanting to shame those who get or give support .


Given that the opposite is true, i.e people are far less likely to get the support they need than to be 'infantilised'/mollycoddled, you are way out of line.


_________________
Support mental health research
Please support mental health research
http://www.mentalhealthresearchuk.org.uk/
http://mcpin.org/
https://www.mqmentalhealth.org/


Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)