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KT67
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28 Aug 2020, 5:20 pm

Also - thing about 'giving it a chance'.

If it's bright lights, I refuse to give something a chance.

I go to the optician and get glasses. I put on my dark glasses if it's something I have to do. But why should I go to every non-autistic friendly thing going? Or be deprived of having shows etc to go to? Even shops?

It doesn't take a lot to warn about lights.

It does take a lot to put on another production but the fact that ones exist is a moral and social (and even capital - otherwise companies wouldn't do it) good thing.

There is no more reason why I should put myself in unnecessary pain for seeing an inaccessible show than that I should stab myself in the eyes just to 'give it a chance'.

I see it a bit like having a ramp available. Which for the record, I think there should be.



Nades
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28 Aug 2020, 5:27 pm

KT67 wrote:
Also - thing about 'giving it a chance'.

If it's bright lights, I refuse to give something a chance.

I go to the optician and get glasses. I put on my dark glasses if it's something I have to do. But why should I go to every non-autistic friendly thing going? Or be deprived of having shows etc to go to? Even shops?

It doesn't take a lot to warn about lights.

It does take a lot to put on another production but the fact that ones exist is a moral and social (and even capital - otherwise companies wouldn't do it) good thing.

There is no more reason why I should put myself in unnecessary pain for seeing an inaccessible show than that I should stab myself in the eyes just to 'give it a chance'.

I see it a bit like having a ramp available. Which for the record, I think there should be.


Ironically I tried to make a post several times half an hour ago about dimming lights being a reasonable accommodation vs setting up a special bus service to a remote village being unreasonable accommodation but the post failed.

There is nothing wrong with what you said about lights. That's fine by me and doesn't come at the expense of others.



KT67
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28 Aug 2020, 5:40 pm

Nades wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
I think there's some truth on both sides of the coin. Personally, to a large extent I simply avoid mainstream society because in my experience it's often just too hard and painful for me to stay afloat in it - I can usually get by without standing out as too weird, but applying all the necessary "fitting in" strategies (for example, having to go along with their uncomfortable rituals and hiding the fact that I'd like to tell them where to shove them) often leaves me feeling abused and wondering what the point was. By filtering out the more judgemental and ableist types and gravitating towards oddballs and outliers, I can have something like a social life without so much discomfort. And I don't think I'll ever quite forgive the world for being such a crappy place in general for an Aspie to have to live in, and although it's not rational, I can't quite escape the feeling that it's them who should change, not me, or at least meet me half way. To my mind, normal is often piss poor.

On the other hand, I'd not feel right if I didn't make the occasional excursion into the mainstream just to "keep my eye in." I'm very keen on pushing the envelope, as long as I limit it to gentle pressure on myself. I don't think I'll ever quite accept that I can't do this or that. One of the most important things to me is that I will be treated as an equal, though I think that large swathes of society are quite authoritarian and will never stop the downward pressure on the status of any individual who hasn't already achieved a particularly high position. I'm not interested in accepting that hierarchical jungle and fighting my way up it, so if it's not egalitarian, I'm mostly against it and would rather work to reform it, or even to bring it down, than embrace it.


A little bit of give and take from both sides is ideal. I've sadly seen many fellow aspies who just use their diagnosis as an excuse to plead perpetual invalid status to everyone they meet and they're not even subtle about it. One woman in particular just sat at home and if she needed to travel just expected her aunt to pick her up in her car.

In the UK we have a motorbike training scheme called a CBT which is basically a days training on a motorbike, it's not even a test and it's almost impossible to fail. When i recommended she tried doing the training and getting a cheap moped so she didnt need to call her aunt every time she wanted to travel more than a mile her reply was basically "what? I have autism, I'll crash" and I was thinking. .....have you even considered how annoying you must be for your aunt and how much independance a simple cheap moped would give you? Talk about shooting herself in the foot.

Anyway, she still needs her aunt to drive her everywhere and she's 34 years old.


Yeah - that's a problem when it comes to living in villages.

A lot of people who have autism and dyspraxia either don't know they're dyspraxic or don't know which is which. Autism has nothing to do with balance imo, as someone who's both.

I'm dyspraxic so I don't think I'd be able to do the test either or feel like it was a safe test if it was so easy I did pass it. However, I do take buses or walk to town if it's something that only I want to do.

My granddad works at a CAB and according to him, it's very hard to get disability benefit, even for those who are physically disabled and clearly need it so I see the ability to get ESA as between an individual, the doctor and the (Tory) government.



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28 Aug 2020, 5:54 pm

Temple Grandin has said something about it too in one of her books. She feels autistic kids are being held back and she says how autistic people are more employed in Japan than they are here. She also has met parents who said they don't want to bother teaching their autistic child social skills when they are in fact fine how they are. She has even said how there are those who have less severe autism than her but can't even order their food at a McDonalds.

My mom used to make me order my own food. The more I had to practice, the easier it became. She also wrote about how every time she had a "tantrum," she would always get a consequence. Unless it was sensory related, she got no consequence. She was pretty much forced to follow the rules and any rules her mom set out, she was expected to follow them too like the rest of her siblings. She was also expected to use table manners.

She feels autistic kids are not getting any of this stuff and it's not being enforced onto them. She even said it frightens her to imagine if she were an autistic child today. She does not think she would be where she is now if she were born in today's time.


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28 Aug 2020, 6:12 pm

Nades wrote:

A little bit of give and take from both sides is ideal. I've sadly seen many fellow aspies who just use their diagnosis as an excuse to plead perpetual invalid status to everyone they meet and they're not even subtle about it. One woman in particular just sat at home and if she needed to travel just expected her aunt to pick her up in her car.

In the UK we have a motorbike training scheme called a CBT which is basically a days training on a motorbike, it's not even a test and it's almost impossible to fail. When i recommended she tried doing the training and getting a cheap moped so she didnt need to call her aunt every time she wanted to travel more than a mile her reply was basically "what? I have autism, I'll crash" and I was thinking. .....have you even considered how annoying you must be for your aunt and how much independance a simple cheap moped would give you? Talk about shooting herself in the foot.

Anyway, she still needs her aunt to drive her everywhere and she's 34 years old.


Have you ever stopped to think that there may be a reason why some people need such help? I have a bad sense of direction and a degree of agoraphobia. That means I'm very reliant on my stepdaughter taking me places. I didn't purposely decide to be bad at orientation .


Personally I find your glib and snide putting down of other people really annoying .


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KT67
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28 Aug 2020, 6:23 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Nades wrote:

A little bit of give and take from both sides is ideal. I've sadly seen many fellow aspies who just use their diagnosis as an excuse to plead perpetual invalid status to everyone they meet and they're not even subtle about it. One woman in particular just sat at home and if she needed to travel just expected her aunt to pick her up in her car.

In the UK we have a motorbike training scheme called a CBT which is basically a days training on a motorbike, it's not even a test and it's almost impossible to fail. When i recommended she tried doing the training and getting a cheap moped so she didnt need to call her aunt every time she wanted to travel more than a mile her reply was basically "what? I have autism, I'll crash" and I was thinking. .....have you even considered how annoying you must be for your aunt and how much independance a simple cheap moped would give you? Talk about shooting herself in the foot.

Anyway, she still needs her aunt to drive her everywhere and she's 34 years old.


Have you ever stopped to think that there may be a reason why some people need such help? I have a bad sense of direction and a degree of agoraphobia. That means I'm very reliant on my stepdaughter taking me places. I didn't purposely decide to be bad at orientation .


Personally I find your glib and snide putting down of other people really annoying .


Thanks for expressing this better than I could, Fire Monkey.

And needing such help doesn't make someone infantile.

I find this kind of attitude is common in English villages, unfortunately.



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28 Aug 2020, 6:59 pm

^ I spent nearly a dozen years increasingly deteriorating because the emphasis, support wise., is on those with acute SMI and those of us with chronic SMI are afterthoughts .

I didn't push for help and support as a previous attempt was shot down in flames in a rather curt and hostile manner. My stepdaughter had tried for years to get me to move near her, but I was too anxious to do so. What finally made me agree to move was that the block of flats I was living in was going to be demolished.

I now get a fair amount of support. I live on my own, but in a healthier way.


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28 Aug 2020, 7:01 pm

firemonkey wrote:
Nades wrote:

A little bit of give and take from both sides is ideal. I've sadly seen many fellow aspies who just use their diagnosis as an excuse to plead perpetual invalid status to everyone they meet and they're not even subtle about it. One woman in particular just sat at home and if she needed to travel just expected her aunt to pick her up in her car.

In the UK we have a motorbike training scheme called a CBT which is basically a days training on a motorbike, it's not even a test and it's almost impossible to fail. When i recommended she tried doing the training and getting a cheap moped so she didnt need to call her aunt every time she wanted to travel more than a mile her reply was basically "what? I have autism, I'll crash" and I was thinking. .....have you even considered how annoying you must be for your aunt and how much independance a simple cheap moped would give you? Talk about shooting herself in the foot.

Anyway, she still needs her aunt to drive her everywhere and she's 34 years old.


Have you ever stopped to think that there may be a reason why some people need such help? I have a bad sense of direction and a degree of agoraphobia. That means I'm very reliant on my stepdaughter taking me places. I didn't purposely decide to be bad at orientation .


Personally I find your glib and snide putting down of other people really annoying .


We're not helping each other's cases. :roll: Some people have more obvious difficulties than others, which is not an excuse to act like one's own struggles are the greater issue at hand. Simply put none of you want to know what I went through to achieve what I have nor where I'm coming from. Nobody here was thinking hierarchically, you projected that on us. People who may seemingly have effortless active lives may actually struggle with anything you might, or anything else.

Could I build a medical case for it & apply for disability? Sure, but I trust American doctors about as far as I can throw them; less than my own ability to get stuff done. Our healthcare is a ripoff even with the insurance I work for. Blindness to theory of mind is a problem for basically everyone. Yes, I have thought about getting SSDI for a long time. I also lived with sufficient pressure to just go & find liveable work anyway.

I wouldn't expect anyone to understand at a glance.


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firemonkey
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28 Aug 2020, 7:11 pm

cberg wrote:
[


We're not helping each other's cases. :roll: Some people have more obvious difficulties than others, which is not an excuse to act like one's own struggles are the greater issue at hand. Simply put none of you want to know what I went through to achieve what I have nor where I'm coming from.


The same could be said of you with your attitude about other people. This is the kind of reactionary , unsupportive
thread that makes me want to quit here.


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cberg
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28 Aug 2020, 8:26 pm

Likewise, so isn't it ironic that despite the fact you refuse to understand my viewpoint, we kind of want the same things. I would like to be a supportive person, but I am being stonewalled by prejudice.

I would pay taxes to help people out with autism, though on the condition that my money wasn't being demanded.

I don't wish to downplay anyone's struggles but that's what I see you doing. Your refusal to get into someone else's shoes is more trouble than ASD if you ask me.


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28 Aug 2020, 8:28 pm

This thread is not about certain autistic people's dignity, it's about all of us. Some people just want to be treated like anyone else would. No specific attention for me PLEASE.


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28 Aug 2020, 8:30 pm

Being treated like a kid is way more crippling for someone like me than not being accommodated by a lack of fluorescent lights.

I have never been particularly accomodated & I don't expect that to change. You're calling me ableist; I work with an ASD career support program for middle & high school kids. Everyone in my group at work is on the spectrum & you don't speak for us.


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28 Aug 2020, 8:35 pm

That's not the way taxes work. They have to be set and regulated, they're not optional. Otherwise there's no way to do the budgeting. It has to be organized.


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28 Aug 2020, 8:42 pm

Exactly, which is why minorities still need to organize to get any kind of government backing, instead of just complaining about the conditions to other people with the same problems.

I don't have any power to fix this, but because I participate in an economy that is hostile to me as well I'm being blamed for the shitty conditions.

Do I legitimately believe it's reasonable to reconfigure everything around our minority preferences? Of course not. Look for middle ground, don't just go witch hunting the people in a position to help instead of working with us.

I support autistic people's rights, not excess privileges.


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28 Aug 2020, 8:48 pm

Again, the problem here is that people with ASD are not being recognized as the adults most of us are.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with our capacity in any regards. Disrespect is disrespect & I'm not known for putting up with it from anyone. If you refuse to see me for who I am because my disadvantages are less apparent, consider that may be because I worked on something.


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28 Aug 2020, 10:13 pm

Nades wrote:
A little bit of give and take from both sides is ideal. I've sadly seen many fellow aspies who just use their diagnosis as an excuse to plead perpetual invalid status to everyone they meet and they're not even subtle about it. One woman in particular just sat at home and if she needed to travel just expected her aunt to pick her up in her car.

In the UK we have a motorbike training scheme called a CBT which is basically a days training on a motorbike, it's not even a test and it's almost impossible to fail. When i recommended she tried doing the training and getting a cheap moped so she didnt need to call her aunt every time she wanted to travel more than a mile her reply was basically "what? I have autism, I'll crash" and I was thinking. .....have you even considered how annoying you must be for your aunt and how much independance a simple cheap moped would give you? Talk about shooting herself in the foot.

Anyway, she still needs her aunt to drive her everywhere and she's 34 years old.

Yes I think overdependency like that happens, and a disability or an illness is sometimes used as a convenient excuse for it. And it's often hard to know exactly who could do more to help themselves and who couldn't. One of my own ideas is that if only we didn't all get pushed around so much, people might take a bit more initiative. In short, I suspect that people act as if they're powerless because most people are somewhat disempowered by the ruling hierarchy. But that political indictment of society might not readily explain why your motorbike refusenik acts like she does, or indeed why her aunt continues to do all the running. It's easy enough to see that as long as the motivation to help herself isn't there, she won't. What we don't know is what would happen if the help were removed and the motivation thus restored. The subject might firm up and find a proactive solution, or she might not be able to, and if not then the reasons why not might be soft-wired and psychological enough to be influenced by reasoning with her skillfully, or they might be too hard-wired to move one iota.

Judging by the apparent heat in some of the comments on this thread, you've touched a nerve. I guess that's because the subject of dependency is so politically charged, with the right wing appearing to use the sad spectacle of overdependency as a cloak for redistribution from poor to rich, while there's a perception of a leftist view that giving everybody unlimited, unconditional handouts would make for a great new world.