Treatment of High Functioning Vs Lower Functioning on W.P

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Steve1963
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02 Oct 2020, 10:59 am

Fnord wrote:
One form of bullying behavior (and a hallmark of NPD), is for the bully to attack his or her victim no matter what he or she says or does (e.g., "Damned if you do and damned if you don't"), and then tell the victim that he or she was "only joking".[/color]
Oh I was in total disagreement with what you were saying. By "joking" I merely meant that I wasn't taking this too seriously, meaning I wasn't getting upset or triggered by it. I just meant I was trying to have a civil disagreement.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:03 am

Teach51 wrote:
Nades wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Nades wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
It seems to be a very American thing ,that you can succeed at anything you want to , with the right amount of effort. It's addle brained bunkum. I had piano lessons from 8-13 as an extra curricular activity at my prep school . I had zero aptitude for it. Despite trying my best I couldn't even get to grade I level.


I somehow managed to get through all of comprehensive school without scoring a single try or goal. Everyone has a couple of things they're bad at.


Did you ever enjoy just playing the game though?


To a degree in didn't hate it. I was also a very fast runner so when I finally did get the ball I used to cause some unexpected panic. The downside is that I weighed next to nothing and was promptly wiped out in Rugby.


Rugby is really rough. I had a relative who died of a broken neck in a rugby game.


Damn that's bad. Yeah it's basically American football with zero protection. Really easy to get hurt and in school you're around all shapes and sizes of people. It's not the big chunkers vs other big chunkers like in professional games. It's big chunkers vs scrawny kids when you're in school. I'm amazed they still play it in school today but it is after all the national sport of the country I reside. I've seen a lot of hits and tackles that make me cringe looking back at my time in school.



kraftiekortie
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02 Oct 2020, 11:03 am

I don’t report people unless I find it really necessary.

One should not get in the habit of running to the teacher or cops for every little indignity.

This idea is reflected in the story of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf.”

I had to learn, the hard way, to stick up for myself.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:04 am

Example of civil disagreement: "I think you're wrong because <reasons>."
Example of uncivil disagreement (bullying): "What a <something bad> of you, lol, people, look at <something bad> here!"


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kraftiekortie
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02 Oct 2020, 11:04 am

Rugby is like America football....but without all the protective equipment.

It’s a VERY rough sport.

I sucked at sports—but enjoyed playing and watching them. I got to the point, eventually, by adulthood, that I could play okay. Certainly never made any school teams.

I started playing okay because my anxiety associated with playing sports got better because there was no longer a chorus of kids saying “you suck!”



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02 Oct 2020, 11:09 am

After hyperextending my knee playing soccer (football, to the Brits) at university, I gave up on sports altogether.


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02 Oct 2020, 11:12 am

Steve1963 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
One form of bullying behavior (and a hallmark of NPD), is for the bully to attack his or her victim no matter what he or she says or does (e.g., "Damned if you do and damned if you don't"), and then tell the victim that he or she was "only joking".[/color]
Oh I was in total disagreement with what you were saying. By "joking" I merely meant that I wasn't taking this too seriously, meaning I wasn't getting upset or triggered by it. I just meant I was trying to have a civil disagreement.
Your actions speak louder than your (alleged) meaning.


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Nades
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02 Oct 2020, 11:16 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Rugby is like America football....but without all the protective equipment.

It’s a VERY rough sport.

I sucked at sports—but enjoyed playing and watching them. I got to the point, eventually, by adulthood, that I could play okay. Certainly never made any school teams.

I started playing okay because my anxiety associated with playing sports got better because there was no longer a chorus of kids saying “you suck!”


It's a extremely rough sport. It's perhaps the roughest sport I know of second to boxing. Being a skinny aspie playing rugby......it was not nice at times. I would have felt far better playing American football. I noticed a lot of aspies seems to despise sports. They're the ultimate social activity in a way and everyone is on the same "skill" level regardless. No testing the water at all to see what games might suit you in british schools at least. Just all in together...forever.



kraftiekortie
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02 Oct 2020, 11:20 am

I used to enjoy watching rugby on TV. The “rugby shirt” was in fashion during the 70s. You can’t throw a forward pass in rugby. This was true in American football until the early 1900s.

I wish a supposedly “lower-functioning” person would add to this thread.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:23 am

'Try hard' isn't always bad advice. Sometimes it is the best thing people could do to improve their situation. It merely isn't easy to know how hard someone is or isn't trying from the outside looking in or what someone could or could not achieve.

I've personally never had an issue with anyone on this forum giving me tactless or rude advice.

My main problem isn't autism but social anxiety/selective mutism.

If someone told me that trying hard is how to get rid of an anxiety disorder, they'd be generally right as far as I know. Exposure therapy seems to be what works best for anxiety and avoidance seems to make anxiety worse. They'd not be telling me something I didn't already know, but they'd be right.

Lately I've had to try hard to ignore my anxiety. It had a few less than pleasant effects, like my vision going black and me becoming dazed, not being able to understand what people were saying because everything sounded like white noise, memory problems, trembling uncontrollably and as a result difficulties standing, my heart feeling like it was beating irregularly, becoming disoriented, numb and a few other things. After about half a year of trying to ignore these symptoms on a daily basis I got some burnout like symptoms and my immune system refused to do its job properly. Now, I'm not saying this was bad for me. My mental health is currently worse than it'd otherwise be, but ultimately the experience might still improve my anxiety. However, an observer or someone I told what I was or wasn't doing would not necessarily come to the conclusion that I was trying hard. In my opinion I was (Although currently I'm taking a break from trying hard). And if someone were to tell me that what I've been doing is easy - because for them it would be - and that I therefore wasn't trying hard that'd not be very helpful.

And sometimes for some people the most healthy decision is to give up one one thing and stop putting effort into it. For me and my anxiety disorder it isn't, but for some people and some of their problems it is.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:23 am

NorthWind wrote:
PhosphorusDecree wrote:
Going back to a point made several pages ago-

I do not agree that having subforums for "low" and "mid"- functioning people would amount to harmful segregation. No-one is forcing anyone to just post in that one forum- they are completely free to explore and interact with the rest of the site. But the subforum would be a place to talk to people with similar issues, without the replies being swamped by tactless "high"-functioners. Including those who "see no need for a safe space" because they don't need it themselves. Failing to recognise other people's problems as real is a general human trait that us lot are far from being immune to.

This.

We even more or less have such a subforum for the most high functioning - 'In-Depth Adult Life Discussion'. It's not all inclusive for the most high functioning autistic people either, because it has an age restriction as well and it may or may not be for specific topics only - I've not actually had a look at it - but it definitely isn't for anyone with less high functioning autism or severe comorbidities. And if having subforums was harmful segregation, that'd apply to that subforum and the women's subforum as well.
If we have a subforum to ensure the discussions between the most high functioning isn't disrupted by less high functioning, there's certainly nothing wrong with having a subforum for mid and one for low functioning people. Though the boarders wouldn't necessarily have to be strictly along functioning labels. There have been several people with type 1 autism or Aspergers who don't have 'normal' lives because of autism or comorbitities who have complained about more high functioning people insisting that autism isn't a disability and that any problem they have isn't due to autism but due to not trying and a subforum for mid functioning people could include them.
Making new subforums would leave the rest of WP intact and merely be an additional option for those who feel more comfortable talking specifically to the people who can relate instead of to everyone.
Subforums is definitely better than sticky threads, because, as soon as there's a high number of people wanting to discuss their issues, doing it all in one thread would get confusing.


There is no discrimination against more severe autistics in the adult section. “low functioning” older autistics either have been locked up in an institution for decades or are dead. Those of us posting in that section are survivors. We had to figure out things by ourselves, there was little or no special ed, no IEP’s, no accommodations, no or misdiagnosis. We have had more time to learn coping mechanisms.


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02 Oct 2020, 11:29 am

Some people seem to have already been saying what I was trying to get across with my previous post much better than I did. Damn, this conversation is moving fast.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:37 am

An interesting article from 2007.

Quote:
In the Peanuts comic strip, Charlie Brown was never able to kick the football, fly a kite properly or lead a baseball team. He was also sad and often the target of ridicule from his peers. A new Canadian study looking at the connections between athletic skill and social acceptance among school children confirms that Chuck's problems were true to life: kids place a great deal of value on athletic ability, and youngsters deemed unskilled by their peers often experience sadness, isolation and social rejection at school.



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 085951.htm



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02 Oct 2020, 11:39 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
NorthWind wrote:
PhosphorusDecree wrote:
Going back to a point made several pages ago-

I do not agree that having subforums for "low" and "mid"- functioning people would amount to harmful segregation. No-one is forcing anyone to just post in that one forum- they are completely free to explore and interact with the rest of the site. But the subforum would be a place to talk to people with similar issues, without the replies being swamped by tactless "high"-functioners. Including those who "see no need for a safe space" because they don't need it themselves. Failing to recognise other people's problems as real is a general human trait that us lot are far from being immune to.

This.

We even more or less have such a subforum for the most high functioning - 'In-Depth Adult Life Discussion'. It's not all inclusive for the most high functioning autistic people either, because it has an age restriction as well and it may or may not be for specific topics only - I've not actually had a look at it - but it definitely isn't for anyone with less high functioning autism or severe comorbidities. And if having subforums was harmful segregation, that'd apply to that subforum and the women's subforum as well.
If we have a subforum to ensure the discussions between the most high functioning isn't disrupted by less high functioning, there's certainly nothing wrong with having a subforum for mid and one for low functioning people. Though the boarders wouldn't necessarily have to be strictly along functioning labels. There have been several people with type 1 autism or Aspergers who don't have 'normal' lives because of autism or comorbitities who have complained about more high functioning people insisting that autism isn't a disability and that any problem they have isn't due to autism but due to not trying and a subforum for mid functioning people could include them.
Making new subforums would leave the rest of WP intact and merely be an additional option for those who feel more comfortable talking specifically to the people who can relate instead of to everyone.
Subforums is definitely better than sticky threads, because, as soon as there's a high number of people wanting to discuss their issues, doing it all in one thread would get confusing.


There is no discrimination against more severe autistics in the adult section. “low functioning” older autistics either have been locked up in an institution for decades or are dead. Those of us posting in that section are survivors. We had to figure out things by ourselves, there was little or no special ed, no IEP’s, no accommodations, no or misdiagnosis. We have had more time to learn coping mechanisms.


I didn't say there was discrimination - not as in unfair discrimination anyway. I'm not against this subforum existing. And I was going by the short description of the subforum. I wouldn't know if what's going on in the subforum is completely different than what the description would suggest. The vague age limit of the subforum people don't have to exactly adhere to is 30. What you're saying doesn't apply to people who are roughly 30. And people who don't meet the criterion to participate in this forum don't have to be severely autistic. Many members with Aspergers or level 1 autism don't meet the criterion - at least the criterion the description would suggest, again if what's going on inside is different I wouldn't know.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:42 am

Fnord wrote:
Steve1963 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
One form of bullying behavior (and a hallmark of NPD), is for the bully to attack his or her victim no matter what he or she says or does (e.g., "Damned if you do and damned if you don't"), and then tell the victim that he or she was "only joking".[/color]
Oh I was in total disagreement with what you were saying. By "joking" I merely meant that I wasn't taking this too seriously, meaning I wasn't getting upset or triggered by it. I just meant I was trying to have a civil disagreement.
Your actions speak louder than your (alleged) meaning.
Or your perception of my alleged meaning. That's why I clarified, or attempted to anyway.



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02 Oct 2020, 11:47 am

Yep. Firemonkey’s article is my experience.

It was true even in the “special school” I attended. Kids picked last for teams were scorned by their peers. I was scorned by my peers.