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AnalogGirl
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18 Oct 2020, 3:15 pm

Do you ever keep it short n sweet, kind, polite and positive, only to get constant dirty looks and cold shoulder by NT’s? Sometimes bordering on contempt? I don’t seem to have this issue with the older generation. Mostly the younger generations.

Wtf do they want from me/us/each other?

I come from a genuinely polite, kind place, yet at the end of most interactions, it’s the same result.



Joe90
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18 Oct 2020, 4:34 pm

I don't know what it is with me, but I can attract and make friends with people of any age, gender and neurology....except for NT females around my age (unless they are family). No matter how interested in them I am, how talkative and friendly I am, I seem to frighten them off and they unfriend me from Facebook or at least unfollow me. And I can never make out why. One theory I do have is that I was socially rejected so much at school by my female NT peers, that I have become rather afraid of being socially rejected by my female NT peers as an adult, and that they can just sense that I appear subtly standoffish. That's my only theory, because I don't seem to have a problem with making friends with anyone else, but NT females in their 20s and 30s, forget it.


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madbutnotmad
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18 Oct 2020, 4:40 pm

In life there are a great deal of people who you may come into contact with.
Not all of them will be nice / good / kind / fair / honest / decent / friendly.

Just try and find a few that are all those things and just try and form long term stable friendships
a few genuine decent friends are worth much more than having loads of pretend friends.



KT67
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18 Oct 2020, 4:41 pm

Some (esp less well educated who are more firm in gender roles etc) young NT men want to 'win' social situations like it's a game.

If you're a trans man and don't compete, it's proof to them that you're 'really a woman'.
If you're a cis man and don't compete, they might even still say that - ie call you a 'girl'. Or they'll call you weak. Or (even if you're straight), they'll call you a homophobic slur.
If you're a woman, you can get away with it but only cos they're either busy ignoring you or cos they're busy trying to get into your pants...

It's very hard for aspies to win this 'game'.
So we just look bad all the time cos they're constantly trying to get one over one us and managing it.



KT67
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18 Oct 2020, 4:43 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
In life there are a great deal of people who you may come into contact with.
Not all of them will be nice / good / kind / fair / honest / decent / friendly.

Just try and find a few that are all those things and just try and form long term stable friendships
a few genuine decent friends are worth much more than having loads of pretend friends.


I do this and this is why although the majority of the human population are NT, it's about 50/50 with my irl friends. My NT friends are generally quiet, quirky, artistic types, too.



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18 Oct 2020, 4:49 pm

There are people out loose who are so wrapped up in their own clique that others don't seem human. You may hear demands to declare loyalty to groups that exist only in Harry Potterland, among many others. The media is encouraging this fragmentation, because it distracts from the extreme wealth imbalance.



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18 Oct 2020, 4:51 pm

One thing I have noticed is that when people are feeling anxious - and interacting with NTs is a scenario for anxiety for us - our faces reflect it in that we can tend to completely forget to smile, not realising how this lack of positive facial expressions sends a negative, off-putting message which we are not conscious of. It can make us seem surly or unfriendly, even though we are not.

I have had to train myself to smile in social situations. It did make a difference to the reception received from others. It's only one factor in this, though I surmise that it is an important one. NTs judge on appearance and body language, unlike us - we tend to judge people on what they say, and whether they seem sincere in what they say. It's like two different languages are going on, and they don't like it. Should we make an effort to accommodate them then? It depends on what your social goals are. It's a choice.



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18 Oct 2020, 4:59 pm

Dear_one wrote:
There are people out loose who are so wrapped up in their own clique that others don't seem human. You may hear demands to declare loyalty to groups that exist only in Harry Potterland, among many others. The media is encouraging this fragmentation, because it distracts from the extreme wealth imbalance.


Very insightful ...... must add that. , it appears the broadcast media has much deeper things that it perpetuates aswell.
In this instance , (deeper can be substituted for the word sinister.)


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18 Oct 2020, 5:17 pm

AnalogGirl wrote:
Do you ever keep it short n sweet, kind, polite and positive, only to get constant dirty looks and cold shoulder by NT’s? Sometimes bordering on contempt? I don’t seem to have this issue with the older generation. Mostly the younger generations.

Wtf do they want from me/us/each other?

They expect nonverbal flirt signals as invitation to approach you and don't get your rejecting way even that you seem to bequite attractive. I don't get NT women as well but I'm more aware of that now. Samples for such signals are stroking the hairs behind the ears at the side that is directed to a guy, moving your hips in seductive way, short interested looks at their eyes, getting in touch once you are near to them or reaching something aso. and their empathy causes the guys to sense your feelings towards them. But many people on the spectrum aren't emotional driven and don't develop feelings all the time and lack the empathy towards NTs as well as theory of mind. In the end they don't get you at all. Does it help you to know this? May be a little bit but I guess you remain still helpless even with knowing this. :?


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AnalogGirl
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18 Oct 2020, 6:05 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
In life there are a great deal of people who you may come into contact with.
Not all of them will be nice / good / kind / fair / honest / decent / friendly.

Just try and find a few that are all those things and just try and form long term stable friendships
a few genuine decent friends are worth much more than having loads of pretend friends.

These aren’t situations that I’m looking to make friends. Mostly forced interactions like work, volunteering, even simple things like ordering a meal at a restaurant.



AnalogGirl
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18 Oct 2020, 6:15 pm

B19 wrote:
One thing I have noticed is that when people are feeling anxious - and interacting with NTs is a scenario for anxiety for us - our faces reflect it in that we can tend to completely forget to smile, not realising how this lack of positive facial expressions sends a negative, off-putting message which we are not conscious of. It can make us seem surly or unfriendly, even though we are not.

I have had to train myself to smile in social situations. It did make a difference to the reception received from others. It's only one factor in this, though I surmise that it is an important one. NTs judge on appearance and body language, unlike us - we tend to judge people on what they say, and whether they seem sincere in what they say. It's like two different languages are going on, and they don't like it. Should we make an effort to accommodate them then? It depends on what your social goals are. It's a choice.


Oh yes I totally get the anxiousness! But I’ve learned to breath and relax. I guess I’m asking now because I have to deal with someone this week that can barely interact more than 2 sentences, and they will bristle with contempt, barely able to contain it. This is a forced interaction, with a volunteer group, but the two of us have always interacted for short, need based issues without the group, so the group dynamic is not a factor here. Also, since there is a purpose to our interactions, rather than purely social where I do tend to become awkward, I’m even less anxious. So that’s what I’m asking, what do they want from me? And I’m getting older, almost 50, and so less I have less and less patience for accommodating this behavior.



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18 Oct 2020, 6:29 pm

AnalogGirl wrote:
Do you ever keep it short n sweet, kind, polite and positive, only to get constant dirty looks and cold shoulder by NT’s? Sometimes bordering on contempt? I don’t seem to have this issue with the older generation. Mostly the younger generations.

Wtf do they want from me/us/each other?

I come from a genuinely polite, kind place, yet at the end of most interactions, it’s the same result.


I just don't give a crap these days.
Problem solved. 8)

The irony here, for me, is that when I do engage, the situation goes downhill more than if I kept it "short and sweet". :mrgreen:


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18 Oct 2020, 6:38 pm

AnalogGirl wrote:
<snip> So that’s what I’m asking, what do they want from me? And I’m getting older, almost 50, and so less I have less and less patience for accommodating this behavior.


There's a significant chance that they want you to be punished for something that someone you remind them of did. You can at least be glad they've been done to, and try to not pass it on.



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18 Oct 2020, 11:50 pm

What do NTs want?
It often seems they want us to become them.


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KT67
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19 Oct 2020, 7:08 am

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
What do NTs want?
It often seems they want us to become them.


Exactly what some of them want and exactly what the medical model is pushing for.

We're not deficient.

They want us to feel deficient and long to be like them.

It's somehow 'offensive' to point out their flaws or just to be happy in being yourself.



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20 Oct 2020, 3:35 am

Joe90 wrote:
I don't know what it is with me, but I can attract and make friends with people of any age, gender and neurology....except for NT females around my age (unless they are family). No matter how interested in them I am, how talkative and friendly I am, I seem to frighten them off and they unfriend me from Facebook or at least unfollow me. And I can never make out why. One theory I do have is that I was socially rejected so much at school by my female NT peers, that I have become rather afraid of being socially rejected by my female NT peers as an adult, and that they can just sense that I appear subtly standoffish. That's my only theory, because I don't seem to have a problem with making friends with anyone else, but NT females in their 20s and 30s, forget it.

Another possibility: Perhaps because you are close to their age, they initially expect you to be culturally and behaviorally more similar to them than you are, and thus to have a stronger rapport with them than you are capable of. Then, when you turn out not to be quite exactly what they expected, they dismiss you as inexplicably weird. On the other hand, with anyone who is NOT an NT female in their 20s and 30s, if they are willing to talk to you at all in the first place, they do NOT expect you to be exactly like themselves, so they aren't disappointed when you turn out not to be exactly like them.

Another factor: Young people generally tend to be more impatient and arrogant than older people, in my experience.


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