Page 3 of 7 [ 105 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,150

08 Nov 2020, 12:47 am

Pepe wrote:
KT67 wrote:

I just don't think my personality is a disability. I think to do so would be self-hatred.


In some ways, we are better than many NTs.

My position is that we are different, rather than wrong.
But I will agree that most of us have what I would call a "social disability" in the context of a toxic, NT defined social system.


A significant number of people with autism have seizures.



Edna3362
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,366
Location: ᜆᜄᜎᜓᜄ᜔

08 Nov 2020, 1:11 am

KT67 wrote:
skibum wrote:
KT67, Autism is not a personality type. It is a neurological issue. Being Autistic has nothing to do with your personality. Autistic people vary in personality types just as much as anyone else.


I really don't know why I'm autistic.

When people told me it, they told me it in terms of personality traits. Introversion, pedantry, preferring books to people etc.

As an adult, I've read my statement from school and it seems just like my report except that instead of framing things as 'model student' it framed things as 'patient'.

So for eg 'loves to read books and is forever collecting new information well beyond her years' became 'obsesses over books and minute details'.

I fit the stereotypes I was given which describe why I'm autistic. But they describe a personality. And not necessarily a bad one, either. More a neutral one depending on if you want to be a social butterfly or an introverted intellectual.

Almost none of these even described me if you wanna know. :lol:
But that might be a question of culture or upbringing, except not really...

While I'm unquestionably autistic, without the exacerbating effects of comorbidities...
I'm also unquestionably high functioning, enough to pass as an aspie who could do and appear to do the same things described above.



Autism is much more than just personality.
It's more to do with the body and mind -- it influences and affects personality as do one's life.

The way people taught you what autism is... :o It's actually neglectful.


_________________
Gained Number Post Count (1).
Lose Time (n).

Lose more time here - Updates at least once a week.


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

08 Nov 2020, 1:18 am

skibum wrote:
It can be both a disability and a difference without contradicting. The two do not contradict each other at all.



I wonder what would happen if someone had many of the symptoms of autism and they had significant impairments, especially in their learning but yet the doctors couldn't find autism in them? Would they find their symptoms questionable? :scratch:


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 20
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

08 Nov 2020, 1:19 am

KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I wonder how many want accommodations while claiming they're not disabled.


Me.

We live in an overly unstructured, overly social world.

If society can't change then they should at least make accomodations for those of us who would do better in a superior world: more hobby focused and more structured.

I don't consider myself non disabled though. I've always suffered from dyspraxia and I picked up social anxiety after university which is a disability. I even consider parts of my autism disabling (eg sensory stuff).

I just don't think my personality is a disability. I think to do so would be self-hatred.

In what way would it be superior, what about the people who prefer something that isn't as structered and like to go with the flow what about the people who don't have hobbies. I don't understand why you seem to think that parts of it are disabling but other parts might not be but still don't think it's a disability. Is autism nothing more than your personality? Secondly I'm sure most people would do better in a world that's tailored to them. Do you think that there aren't neurotypicals who struggle with the way the world is structured because there absolutely are. Would they need to acomodate everyone who would do better if it was a certain way. If so where would they get the resources to do this secondly are they gonna somehow force this onto people. As I'm sure business owners would rather hire someone who doesn't need the special treatment versus someone who does. Especially if tis' gonna cost them money or effort. What about when when two people's needs conflict. If everyone pursed their hobby how would this society function? What about the unpleasant tasks no one wants to do. I just don't how this society would work. IF you consider it a difference and think it should be accommodated then shouldn't everyone. I think it's reasonable to expect society to accomidate disabilities. There should be ramps for people with wheelchairs. There should be braille for blind people. Unfortunately, that's just not the case.


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 20
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

08 Nov 2020, 1:27 am

League_Girl wrote:
skibum wrote:
It can be both a disability and a difference without contradicting. The two do not contradict each other at all.



I wonder what would happen if someone had many of the symptoms of autism and they had significant impairments, especially in their learning but yet the doctors couldn't find autism in them? Would they find their symptoms questionable? :scratch:

But if they did have many of the symptoms and significant impairments then how would they not be able to find autism in them? In that case they'd likely be diagnosed with something else. depending on what exactly those impairments are would it'd be something different. but It depends.


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

08 Nov 2020, 1:43 am

Pieplup wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
skibum wrote:
It can be both a disability and a difference without contradicting. The two do not contradict each other at all.



I wonder what would happen if someone had many of the symptoms of autism and they had significant impairments, especially in their learning but yet the doctors couldn't find autism in them? Would they find their symptoms questionable? :scratch:

But if they did have many of the symptoms and significant impairments then how would they not be able to find autism in them? In that case they'd likely be diagnosed with something else. depending on what exactly those impairments are would it'd be something different. but It depends.


It was a hypothetical scenario because I have seen many posts online where people try and get diagnosed only to be told they don't have it so they are pissed. It's possible they could have been trying to fake it and they got caught but this is the internet so we do not know. My husband has often told me don't believe everything I read online.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

08 Nov 2020, 2:59 am

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
KT67 wrote:

I just don't think my personality is a disability. I think to do so would be self-hatred.


In some ways, we are better than many NTs.

My position is that we are different, rather than wrong.
But I will agree that most of us have what I would call a "social disability" in the context of a toxic, NT defined social system.


A significant number of people with autism have seizures.


Pardon?
I haven't read all the posts in this thread.
What has your comment got to do with anything? :scratch:

Edit:
I see.
But aren't seizures a comorbidity rather than autism proper?
I don't have them, btw.



Last edited by Pepe on 08 Nov 2020, 3:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 20
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

08 Nov 2020, 3:00 am

League_Girl wrote:
Pieplup wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
skibum wrote:
It can be both a disability and a difference without contradicting. The two do not contradict each other at all.



I wonder what would happen if someone had many of the symptoms of autism and they had significant impairments, especially in their learning but yet the doctors couldn't find autism in them? Would they find their symptoms questionable? :scratch:

But if they did have many of the symptoms and significant impairments then how would they not be able to find autism in them? In that case they'd likely be diagnosed with something else. depending on what exactly those impairments are would it'd be something different. but It depends.


It was a hypothetical scenario because I have seen many posts online where people try and get diagnosed only to be told they don't have it so they are pissed. It's possible they could have been trying to fake it and they got caught but this is the internet so we do not know. My husband has often told me don't believe everything I read online.

I think it's more of a confirmation bias thing. I also think people confuse being socially awkward with being autistic. Other things like that. Earlier today someone said to me
Quote:
I’m also wondering if I have autism. I have trouble maintaining eye contact, I avoid eating hard food and I stim a lot
This is the problem. There's so much misinformation. None of these things mean you are autistic. I mean hell plenty of normal people stim. Stimming is also a common symptom of adhd. I think that's the problem


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

08 Nov 2020, 5:11 am

Pieplup wrote:
In what way would it be superior, what about the people who prefer something that isn't as structered and like to go with the flow what about the people who don't have hobbies. I don't understand why you seem to think that parts of it are disabling but other parts might not be but still don't think it's a disability. Is autism nothing more than your personality? Secondly I'm sure most people would do better in a world that's tailored to them. Do you think that there aren't neurotypicals who struggle with the way the world is structured because there absolutely are. Would they need to acomodate everyone who would do better if it was a certain way. If so where would they get the resources to do this secondly are they gonna somehow force this onto people. As I'm sure business owners would rather hire someone who doesn't need the special treatment versus someone who does. Especially if tis' gonna cost them money or effort. What about when when two people's needs conflict. If everyone pursed their hobby how would this society function? What about the unpleasant tasks no one wants to do. I just don't how this society would work. IF you consider it a difference and think it should be accommodated then shouldn't everyone. I think it's reasonable to expect society to accomidate disabilities. There should be ramps for people with wheelchairs. There should be braille for blind people. Unfortunately, that's just not the case.


Workplaces used to (in the UK at least) have a degree of formality to them which worked.

People used to have superior hobbies to gossiping to one another. These were particularly common.

Just because people have lost the art of it, doesn't mean it didn't work.

Society today favours nonsense like gossiping.

Obviously some people are better equipped to doing jobs nobody wants to do. They don't tend to get 8 GCSEs.


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 20
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

08 Nov 2020, 6:06 am

KT67 wrote:
Pieplup wrote:
In what way would it be superior, what about the people who prefer something that isn't as structered and like to go with the flow what about the people who don't have hobbies. I don't understand why you seem to think that parts of it are disabling but other parts might not be but still don't think it's a disability. Is autism nothing more than your personality? Secondly I'm sure most people would do better in a world that's tailored to them. Do you think that there aren't neurotypicals who struggle with the way the world is structured because there absolutely are. Would they need to acomodate everyone who would do better if it was a certain way. If so where would they get the resources to do this secondly are they gonna somehow force this onto people. As I'm sure business owners would rather hire someone who doesn't need the special treatment versus someone who does. Especially if tis' gonna cost them money or effort. What about when when two people's needs conflict. If everyone pursed their hobby how would this society function? What about the unpleasant tasks no one wants to do. I just don't how this society would work. IF you consider it a difference and think it should be accommodated then shouldn't everyone. I think it's reasonable to expect society to accomidate disabilities. There should be ramps for people with wheelchairs. There should be braille for blind people. Unfortunately, that's just not the case.


Workplaces used to (in the UK at least) have a degree of formality to them which worked.

People used to have superior hobbies to gossiping to one another. These were particularly common.

Just because people have lost the art of it, doesn't mean it didn't work.

Society today favours nonsense like gossiping.

Obviously some people are better equipped to doing jobs nobody wants to do. They don't tend to get 8 GCSEs.

Did you even read my post


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

08 Nov 2020, 6:19 am

Maybe if you bothered to use paragraphs correctly.

I gave it a good shot.

You're essentially saying 'what about all the people who prefer disorder and chaos'.

Screw them.


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 20
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

08 Nov 2020, 6:20 am

KT67 wrote:
Maybe if you bothered to use paragraphs correctly.

I gave it a good shot.

You're essentially saying 'what about all the people who prefer disorder and chaos'.

Screw them.

So what the world should be designed to suit you and f**k everyone else


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

08 Nov 2020, 7:03 am

Pieplup wrote:
So what the world should be designed to suit you and f**k everyone else


I'm saying go back to what it was 50 years ago.

Smart kids separated from thick kids by an 11 plus.

People understanding hobbies are important.

People in the workplace having structure. Which is important for autistic and deaf people. I'm not deaf. Which benefits a lot of NT types too.

Pubs are meant to be noisy. Libraries are meant to be quiet.

Look into how people used to spend their time. There was a focus on hobbies. Often social hobbies but still, doing something not sitting round gossiping.

There's a reason my stepdad managed to get a middle class job and keep it for 50 years and I didn't get a job. It's because I was put in an environment where smarts don't matter.

It's hardly as if they didn't say 'screw you' first.


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


firemonkey
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,570
Location: Calne,England

08 Nov 2020, 7:42 am

A full scale return of the 11 plus would be the height of folly.

Quote:
Price, a professor at the Wellcome Trust Centre for Neuroimaging at University College London, and colleagues, tested 33 "healthy and neurologically normal" adolescents aged 12 to 16. Their IQ scores ranged from 77 to 135, with an average score of 112.

Four years later, the same group took another IQ test. While the average score of 113 was only one point greater than the previous test, the range of scores was quite different: 87 to 143. Individually, the results were quite striking, as participants showed as much as an 18-point drop in IQ, while others shot up as high as 21 points.


https://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20 ... ver-time#1



KT67
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,807

08 Nov 2020, 8:22 am

firemonkey wrote:
A full scale return of the 11 plus would be the height of folly.

Quote:
Price, a professor at the Wellcome Trust Centre for Neuroimaging at University College London, and colleagues, tested 33 "healthy and neurologically normal" adolescents aged 12 to 16. Their IQ scores ranged from 77 to 135, with an average score of 112.

Four years later, the same group took another IQ test. While the average score of 113 was only one point greater than the previous test, the range of scores was quite different: 87 to 143. Individually, the results were quite striking, as participants showed as much as an 18-point drop in IQ, while others shot up as high as 21 points.


https://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20 ... ver-time#1


How much bullying did the intelligent children endure? How much of it was serious bullying from down and out type teenagers rather than teasing from peers? Esp male kids - how many intelligent boys had to avoid gang fights and weapons etc?

How many (I'll be more polite to them than they were to me) less academic kids were given skills they could find decent employment with? How many of them found those subjects less boring than academic ones?

How many intelligent children had to endure lessons being disrupted by kids who didn't give a s**t?


_________________
Not actually a girl
He/him


Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

08 Nov 2020, 8:27 am

Child IQ scores don't mean all that much - certainly not the same as adult scores. If IQ wasn't adjusted for age, you'd find everyone gaining significant increases in IQ as they grow up. Child IQ is more about how fast or slow you're developing relative to the average for your age.

Grammar schools still have their place, perhaps (maybe after the age of 14 or 16), but the focus should be on smaller schools, smaller class sizes, and mixed age groups. I'm closer in age to someone born October 1994 than October 1993, and yet I was placed in the same year group as the latter. Doesn't really make sense.

Honestly, if I had been moved to the same primary school as my brother ~50 kids, two classes), rather than the one I ended up in (200+ kids, classes of 30 some mixed some not), I think things would have been very different. Maybe I wouldn't have ended up being wrecked by special education. OTOH, it would also have helped if my primary teacher hadn't ripped up my statement of special educational needs and treated me exactly the same as all the other pupils... I mean, what was the point of going through all that to end up in the same place?