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holymackerel
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29 Nov 2020, 1:15 pm

I've seen more and more people use it lately. It's not that I am against people using it, it's just I am not really sure why they find it necessary. Are they trying to get away from the word autism like it has some negative connotation, like it refers to other illnesses and don't want to see autism as a bad thing like those illnesses?



funeralxempire
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29 Nov 2020, 1:17 pm

I'm the oddest autist artist.



naturalplastic
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29 Nov 2020, 1:53 pm

It doesnt "distance" anyone from autism because the word derives from autism. It's an idiotic term, but not for that reason.

"Autism" is a condition. A person with autism is a person. So you need separate, but related words, for the two things.

The correct term for a "person with autism" is "an autistic".

The problem with the term "autist" is that it sounds like youre talking about someone who "does" autism only on command, as a paid professional (like an 'illusionist' does magic tricks, or an "artist" does art, or "scientist" does science). Folks dont study and do an apprenticeship in the craft of autism to become austic! Autism is a medically diagnosed condition that they are born with, and cant help having.

So if you are a person on the autism spectrum then you are an "autistic", and not an "autist".

Though if you make a career out of gaming the system to get...say....SSI checks, when youre really NT, but pretend to be autistic, then ...maybe...you could be called an "autist". A succssfully fake autistic might be called an 'autist'.



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29 Nov 2020, 2:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
It doesnt "distance" anyone from autism because the word derives from autism. It's an idiotic term, but not for that reason.

"Autism" is a condition. A person with autism is a person. So you need separate, but related words, for the two things.

The correct term for a "person with autism" is "an autistic".

The problem with the term "autist" is that it sounds like youre talking about someone who "does" autism only on command, as a paid professional (like an 'illusionist' does magic tricks, or an "artist" does art, or "scientist" does science). Folks dont study and do an apprenticeship in the craft of autism to become austic! Autism is a medically diagnosed condition that they are born with, and cant help having.

So if you are a person on the autism spectrum then you are an "autistic", and not an "autist".

Though if you make a career out of gaming the system to get...say....SSI checks, when youre really NT, but pretend to be autistic, then ...maybe...you could be called an "autist". A succssfully fake autistic might be called an 'autist'.


-ic tends to imply a state of being; generally speaking I don't like to refer to people with epilepsy as 'epileptics' or people with mania as 'manics' (etc).

-ist gets used to describe possessing the traits associated with often enough that it's clear what's meant by the term.

To my ears and mind 'an autistic' seems more negative than 'an autist' but 'a person with autism' sounds preferable to either. You're welcome to prefer to use whatever identity labels you'd like but it seems unreasonable to insist that the one you're less familiar with implies faking it or should be used in that manner. :?


Anyways, a someone successfully faking autism is obviously a con autist. 8)



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29 Nov 2020, 3:08 pm

It's just a polite way of saying someone with autism, minor and no big deal.


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Double Retired
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29 Nov 2020, 3:24 pm

I just see "autist" to be more concise.

Perhaps compare to:
- Artist vs. someone who is artistic
- Bassoonist vs. someone who plays the bassoon
- Realist vs. someone who favors realism
(That should give the nit-pickers a lot to work with...uh, the people that like to pick nits.)

"Autist" seems to me to be a reasonable, concise, understandable, innocuous colloquial term that is broader than "Aspie". I am comfy with both words but I do not object to the longer, more official versions others prefer. I do think "autist" and "Aspie" are casual terms.

As often happens, some folk will prefer different terms and different phrasing. Different folk can use different words. It is how language evolves.

Some language evolution, however, makes me cringe. I was taught that "fewer" and "less" were different and applied in different situations. Apparently "less" now applies even when you are talking about there being fewer of some countable item. :-x


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naturalplastic
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29 Nov 2020, 3:52 pm

Lunella wrote:
It's just a polite way of saying someone with autism, minor and no big deal.


What does "politeness" have to do with it?

"Autistic" is neither polite nor rude. Its just what the person is. Same with "autist" (but then there is the aforementioned problem that "autist" sounds like it means someone who practices autism as craft on purpose).



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29 Nov 2020, 6:03 pm

Pessimist?


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naturalplastic
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29 Nov 2020, 6:29 pm

Which debate are you weighing in on?

Autist vs person with autism?

Or autist vs autistic?

A person with a tendency toward optimism is "optimistic". But you call them an "optimist". Same with pessimism.

So based upon that you could call an autistic person an "autist" I suppose. Even though both pessimism and optimism are to some extent conscious choices and are not inborn medical conditions. Thats if youre talking about the autist vs autistic question.

But you would never call a person a "person with pessimism", or "a person with optimism". It would be too unwieldy and sound strange.



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29 Nov 2020, 6:41 pm

Double Retired wrote:
"Autist" seems to me to be a reasonable, concise, understandable, innocuous colloquial term that is broader than "Aspie". I am comfy with both words but I do not object to the longer, more official versions others prefer. I do think "autist" and "Aspie" are casual terms.

As often happens, some folk will prefer different terms and different phrasing. Different folk can use different words. It is how language evolves.
I think I will stick with my preference, admit it is just my preference and other people can have different preferences, admit the terms are probably too casual for formal documents, and not worry too much about what the dictionary says.


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29 Nov 2020, 7:21 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
But you would never call a person a "person with pessimism", or "a person with optimism". It would be too unwieldy and sound strange.


You'd call them a pessimistic person or an optimistic person. You wouldn't call them an optimistic but you might call them an optimist. :nerdy:



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29 Nov 2020, 8:00 pm

Double Retired wrote:
I just see "autist" to be more concise.

Perhaps compare to:
- Artist vs. someone who is artistic
- Bassoonist vs. someone who plays the bassoon
- Realist vs. someone who favors realism
(That should give the nit-pickers a lot to work with...uh, the people that like to pick nits.)

"Autist" seems to me to be a reasonable, concise, understandable, innocuous colloquial term that is broader than "Aspie". I am comfy with both words but I do not object to the longer, more official versions others prefer. I do think "autist" and "Aspie" are casual terms.

As often happens, some folk will prefer different terms and different phrasing. Different folk can use different words. It is how language evolves.

Some language evolution, however, makes me cringe. I was taught that "fewer" and "less" were different and applied in different situations. Apparently "less" now applies even when you are talking about there being fewer of some countable item. :-x


Finally! Another person who cringes when less is used rather than fewer. Drives me nuts.

I also agree about the term autist.


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29 Nov 2020, 11:29 pm

I like the term autist.
It's more concise than "autistic person" and more acceptable than "sufferer of autism".

Plus grammatically it seems like "autistic" should be an adjective, whereas "autist" would fit as the equivalent noun.
Hence, if my behaviour and way of thinking are autistic, I am an autist.



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30 Nov 2020, 1:00 am

To me "autist" has a weird "this is used only on the Internet" feel to it, almost like it would never come up in fleshspace so it isn't really anything worth paying attention to. It seems a bit awkward to me, but I think I'm partially just feeling vicarious embarrassment over all the online autism advocacy (because I know that most people probably don't take seriously). I'm assuming online autism advocacy is where the word is used the most.

MrsPeel wrote:
Plus grammatically it seems like "autistic" should be an adjective, whereas "autist" would fit as the equivalent noun.
Hence, if my behaviour and way of thinking are autistic, I am an autist.

I agree. I knew "an autistic" sounded weird, but I couldn't figure out why, and you've named the problem.



naturalplastic
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30 Nov 2020, 3:52 am

funeralxempire wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
But you would never call a person a "person with pessimism", or "a person with optimism". It would be too unwieldy and sound strange.


You'd call them a pessimistic person or an optimistic person. You wouldn't call them an optimistic but you might call them an optimist. :nerdy:


NOOOO!

You know that it HAS to be "person first" if you wanna be pc.

You CANT call someone a "pessimistic person". It has to be "a person with pessimism". :lol:

But joking aside: "an optimistic person" is less cumbersome than "person with optimism". But you wouldnt really say it that way either. You would call a person with optimism an "optimist".



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30 Nov 2020, 3:58 am

holymackerel wrote:
I've seen more and more people use it lately. It's not that I am against people using it, it's just I am not really sure why they find it necessary. Are they trying to get away from the word autism like it has some negative connotation, like it refers to other illnesses and don't want to see autism as a bad thing like those illnesses?


I'm sure this has been mentioned.

I use the term "autist" or autie, because it is more inclusive.
I.E. less discriminatory. 8)

And there is no "asperger" designation, in some countries, any more.

Edit. I was wrong. 8O


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