Why do professionals get confused between AS - schizophrenia

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Technic1
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12 May 2021, 5:17 am

Why do professionals get confused between Aspergers and schizophrenia?

What are they getting mixed up?

What are all the similarities?



magz
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12 May 2021, 5:32 am

I got this misdiagnosis.
A lot of it was about misinterpretations.
Like, I said people at the metro train were staring at me and it made me distressed.
He wrote - "delusions of reference".
What turned out to be true - I was all shaking from overmedication and people were, well, actually staring at me because if it.


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Technic1
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12 May 2021, 5:45 am

magz wrote:
I got this misdiagnosis.
A lot of it was about misinterpretations.
Like, I said people at the metro train were staring at me and it made me distressed.
He wrote - "delusions of reference".
What turned out to be true - I was all shaking from overmedication and people were, well, actually staring at me because if it.


How did you convince the doctor that you were sane?



magz
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12 May 2021, 5:48 am

Technic1 wrote:
magz wrote:
I got this misdiagnosis.
A lot of it was about misinterpretations.
Like, I said people at the metro train were staring at me and it made me distressed.
He wrote - "delusions of reference".
What turned out to be true - I was all shaking from overmedication and people were, well, actually staring at me because if it.
How did you convince the doctor that you were sane?

I went to a different doctor.


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Technic1
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12 May 2021, 5:57 am

I like it.

(Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy)



Edna3362
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12 May 2021, 7:58 am

Technic1 wrote:
Why do professionals get confused between Aspergers and schizophrenia?

What are they getting mixed up?

What are all the similarities?

The confusion between autism and schizophrenia is old... Decades old.

Back then, it was once the same disorder until science found it wasn't.
At least until 40+ something years ago and with DSM III.


Most autistic issues are usually at birth, developmental and worsen by external forces.

While schizophrenia got it's issues on it's own and can come out of nowhere -- by forces whether external or genetic, once it is triggered, it's progressive.

Yet both can look the same. Emphasis on look.


Let's see...

Social withdrawal.
In autism, it's either lack of social interest or lack of social skills that created negative outcomes.
In schizophrenia, it's only averse outcomes coming from paranoia and other psychiatric stuff.

Imagine mistaking your social and sensory anxiety caused by bullying and overload, with fearful delusions and believing the fantasies in it.
The former is definitely caused by external triggers. The latter is internal misfiring.


Sensory issues.
In autism, it's the varying dimensions of intensity (sensitivity), integrity (filters/processing), comprehension (realizing sensations and emotions), literacy (expressing it) and regulation.
In schizophrenia... It involves distortions and hallucinations.

Imagine mistaking your hypersensitivity for hallucinations... Merely because NTs don't perceived it that way. :o


In communications...
In autism, it can vary from developmental issues to other learning issues/disabilities involving speech and language.
In schizophrenia, it involves disorganized and irrational thoughts.

Imagine you have, say, low verbal IQ but you can speak and write, aware and definitely know a lot of logic and rational thought...
But spilling it out, it looked like word salad no different from someone with disorganized thought. :P
Or worse, taken your terms out of context because you interpreted the diagnostic questions too literally.


"Being in own world"
In autism, it can range from replaying and referencing stuff from personal obsessions, to cognitive and perceptive differences that NTs likely cannot comprehend.
With time and maturity, either an NT gets the references and realizes what it meant or the autistic starts acting more socially appropriate.

In schizophrenia... It's the lack of contact in reality. And it's progressive.

But what if no one realized the references are your means to communicate to the outside world?
And instead, everyone took it the other way around -- the references are what's trapping you.


But these are just... Examples 'why'.
Done trait by trait. Not the most precise of definitions because I'm not exactly at the right state for that. Feel free to correct me.


The bottom line is that autism/aspergers and schizophrenia can look the same, yet for entirely different reasons.


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firemonkey
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12 May 2021, 12:24 pm

I have both dxes. I've had dxes mostly within the 'psychosis spectrum' since 1975.The Asperger's dx came much later in May 2019.


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Technic1
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13 May 2021, 3:34 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Technic1 wrote:
Why do professionals get confused between Aspergers and schizophrenia?

What are they getting mixed up?

What are all the similarities?

The confusion between autism and schizophrenia is old... Decades old.

Back then, it was once the same disorder until science found it wasn't.
At least until 40+ something years ago and with DSM III.


Most autistic issues are usually at birth, developmental and worsen by external forces.

While schizophrenia got it's issues on it's own and can come out of nowhere -- by forces whether external or genetic, once it is triggered, it's progressive.

Yet both can look the same. Emphasis on look.


Let's see...

Social withdrawal.
In autism, it's either lack of social interest or lack of social skills that created negative outcomes.
In schizophrenia, it's only averse outcomes coming from paranoia and other psychiatric stuff.

Imagine mistaking your social and sensory anxiety caused by bullying and overload, with fearful delusions and believing the fantasies in it.
The former is definitely caused by external triggers. The latter is internal misfiring.


Sensory issues.
In autism, it's the varying dimensions of intensity (sensitivity), integrity (filters/processing), comprehension (realizing sensations and emotions), literacy (expressing it) and regulation.
In schizophrenia... It involves distortions and hallucinations.

Imagine mistaking your hypersensitivity for hallucinations... Merely because NTs don't perceived it that way. :o


In communications...
In autism, it can vary from developmental issues to other learning issues/disabilities involving speech and language.
In schizophrenia, it involves disorganized and irrational thoughts.

Imagine you have, say, low verbal IQ but you can speak and write, aware and definitely know a lot of logic and rational thought...
But spilling it out, it looked like word salad no different from someone with disorganized thought. :P
Or worse, taken your terms out of context because you interpreted the diagnostic questions too literally.


"Being in own world"
In autism, it can range from replaying and referencing stuff from personal obsessions, to cognitive and perceptive differences that NTs likely cannot comprehend.
With time and maturity, either an NT gets the references and realizes what it meant or the autistic starts acting more socially appropriate.

In schizophrenia... It's the lack of contact in reality. And it's progressive.

But what if no one realized the references are your means to communicate to the outside world?
And instead, everyone took it the other way around -- the references are what's trapping you.


But these are just... Examples 'why'.
Done trait by trait. Not the most precise of definitions because I'm not exactly at the right state for that. Feel free to correct me.


The bottom line is that autism/aspergers and schizophrenia can look the same, yet for entirely different reasons.


Thank you, can someone please explain other similarities?



1986
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13 May 2021, 5:01 am

I also have diagnoses of Aspergers and schizophrenic disease (things were complicated by me moving abroad in the middle of treatment, but schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder were/are both on the table).

I've come to view autism as my brain's normal mode and schizophrenia as an injury to that brain. Since autism is there from birth but schizophrenia typically debuts in early adolescence, it's probably easiest if you look at past behaviour and whether that behaviour changed dramatically at some point in adolescence/young adulthood. For example, I was very active and motivated to achieve as a child, but since my early 20s that part of me is all but gone. It might also be useful to ask a parent for an opinion whether s/he has noticed any change in you.


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magz
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13 May 2021, 5:11 am

1986 wrote:
I also have diagnoses of Aspergers and schizophrenic disease (things were complicated by me moving abroad in the middle of treatment, but schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder were/are both on the table).

I've come to view autism as my brain's normal mode and schizophrenia as an injury to that brain. Since autism is there from birth but schizophrenia typically debuts in early adolescence, it's probably easiest if you look at past behaviour and whether that behaviour changed dramatically at some point in adolescence/young adulthood. For example, I was very active and motivated to achieve as a child, but since my early 20s that part of me is all but gone. It might also be useful to ask a parent for an opinion whether s/he has noticed any change in you.

But exactly the same change in behavior can be a result of autistic burnout in a previously-masking Aspie (yeah, my case).


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13 May 2021, 8:09 am

Is it the appropriately-trained and license professionals who are confused, or is it the people they diagnose?

After all, the two most prevalent symptoms of schizophrenia are Delusions (false beliefs that are not based in reality) and Hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that don't exist).


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firemonkey
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13 May 2021, 9:27 am

If you have a pre existing severe mental illness dx it's a postcode lottery as to whether you'll be taken seriously in the UK when you mention autism. Mental health team in Essex paid scant regard to my mentions of autism. Moved to Wiltshire in Sept 2017. First psych appointment in Oct 2018. Autism mentioned. Stepdaughter who has worked with autistic people backed me up. 2 weeks later received letter with assessment date. Dxed with Asperger's syndrome in May 2019.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 133 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 47 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


magz
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13 May 2021, 10:53 am

Fnord wrote:
Is it the appropriately-trained and license professionals who are confused, or is it the people they diagnose?

After all, the two most prevalent symptoms of schizophrenia are Delusions (false beliefs that are not based in reality) and Hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that don't exist).

The one who misdiagnosed me was a psychiatrist with all his papers, degree, license, etc. in order.
They don't really help if you don't pay attention to your patient :(


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13 May 2021, 11:01 am

magz wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Is it the appropriately-trained and license professionals who are confused, or is it the people they diagnose?  After all, the two most prevalent symptoms of schizophrenia are Delusions (false beliefs that are not based in reality) and Hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that don't exist).
The one who misdiagnosed me was a psychiatrist with all his papers, degree, license, etc. in order.
The ONE who misdiagnosed me ... the same.  The THREE who diagnosed me more correctly ... the same.

It it always better to get a second opinion, especially if that opinion is rendered by more than one professional.

Science is self-correcting, but the correction always begins with active skepticism.


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magz
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13 May 2021, 11:08 am

I got out of my misdiagnosis exactly via second opinion.
Then, I used a pragmatic criterion:
When following advice of the first doc (lots of pills), I didn't feel any better and my functioning was deteriorating.
When following advice of the other doc (different pills, less of them, rest and learning to care for my needs) - I started being functional and able to cope with life again.

You know, I'm a physicist - the ultimate arbiter of science is experiment ;)
Treatment for schizophrenia made me much more disabled, almost a vegetable.
Accepting that my brain has some special needs made me a lot more functional.


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13 May 2021, 12:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
Is it the appropriately-trained and license professionals who are confused, or is it the people they diagnose?

After all, the two most prevalent symptoms of schizophrenia are Delusions (false beliefs that are not based in reality) and Hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that don't exist).

You raise a good point about a patient being in denial about their diagnosis, even if it's accurate. However:

Fnord wrote:
The ONE who misdiagnosed me ...

You have to admit, any individual doctor can come to the WRONG conclusion. Your yourself have experienced it.