I have a comment on everyone has ASD.

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CarlM
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18 Jun 2021, 8:50 pm

My understanding of the choice of the word "spectrum", by Lorna Wing, was to indicate we are different like colors in the rainbow, rather than to indicate severity. Asperger had called it a "continuum" which implied severity and they want to get away from that inaccurate idea.


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cyberdad
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18 Jun 2021, 8:58 pm

CarlM wrote:
My understanding of the choice of the word "spectrum", by Lorna Wing, was to indicate we are different like colors in the rainbow, rather than to indicate severity. Asperger had called it a "continuum" which implied severity and they want to get away from that inaccurate idea.


In DSM and ICD10 spectrum = continuum

While I understand there are semantic differences it still linked to functionality.

The overall meaning (whether a constellation of traits/comorbidities or a sliding scale) pertains to levels of severity ranging from mild to severe.



FranzOren
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18 Jun 2021, 9:26 pm

It makes sense.



Dandansson
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20 Jun 2021, 3:21 am

cyberdad wrote:
CarlM wrote:
My understanding of the choice of the word "spectrum", by Lorna Wing, was to indicate we are different like colors in the rainbow, rather than to indicate severity. Asperger had called it a "continuum" which implied severity and they want to get away from that inaccurate idea.


In DSM and ICD10 spectrum = continuum

While I understand there are semantic differences it still linked to functionality.

The overall meaning (whether a constellation of traits/comorbidities or a sliding scale) pertains to levels of severity ranging from mild to severe.

:?: do we have an official definition in DSM or ICD of the term "spectrum"?



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20 Jun 2021, 3:40 am

FranzOren wrote:
The problem is that Autism is treated as a spectrum to the point where a lot of people have ASD that is not diagnosed, not to say that everyone has ASD per say. But this is where the theory comes from, because the word "Spectrum" sounds so broad, it comes from being very disabled to being in almost normal state of mind. I don't know how else to explain it though.

I hope my explanation is good.

It's just people who are not medical professionals can even ask themselves if they are normal or not and when they hear the word "Spectrum", it to them must be that everyone has it just a little bit of the trats, while only 1% of the general population have actual mental health and developmental disorders.

I hope that I am correct, I am trying to be accurate about the problems of the word "Spectrum" and why it sounds too broad, because symptoms of ASD can go from very severe to very mild that it reaches to normalcy.

I am sorry, I didn't mean to say that everyone has ASD, I just have problems with the word "Spectrum" and how too broad and confusing it sounds to non-educational professionals.

none of what's been said here is even remotely true.


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FranzOren
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20 Jun 2021, 3:57 am

What do you mean by that? The "Spectrum" sounds too broad when it comes to none-medical professionals.



FranzOren
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20 Jun 2021, 4:58 am

I remember that I pointed out that Autism is treated as a spectrum disorder to the point where from being very disabled and all the way mild to the point where a lot of people have ASD that is not diagnosed or some people lose their ASD diagnosis, just because they no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for ASD as adults. And like I explained before, ASD is diagnosed by behavioral symptoms, milder behaviors of ASD can disappear later in life with therapy. But if a person had severe to profound Autism, then the behavioral symptoms stays the same and it may never disappear, because you are very disabled by ASD to the point where you cannot even improve with therapy.

What I am trying to say is that ASD can be so mild that all the symptoms of ASD can disappear with therapy and that is why some people lose ASD diagnosis and that is why I don't trust diagnosing milder forms of ASD based on behavioral traits, because it can improve so much with therapy to the point where in adulthood, mental health professionals now think you don't have ASD, even though you had communication delays and repetitive behaviors in the past from your childhood.

This website makes me so angry:

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/04/autism-diagnosis


No American Psychological Association, you are wrong, ASD is a developmental disorder, it does not go away. You proved to us that either Autism as a spectrum disorder is too broad to the point where a lot of people have ASD that is not diagnosed and then some people lose ASD diagnosis, just because they improved so much over the years.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is exactly why I think ASD is just a joke to me. What is APA doing? Don't they realize that ASD is a developmental disorder?

I just don't understand how everything here that is said is not true, it is true.The "Spectrum" is way too broad and I showed the proof here from this website that made me angry, because ASD is a developmental disorder.

I wish that ASD was called Autistic Disorder with levels of severity as 1= mild, two= moderate and 3= severe instead of "Autism Spectrum Disorder", because to me "Spectrum" almost never ends, it is almost like pie=3.14...

If we want Autistic Disorder to be treated as a spectrum disorder, the APA and WHO should change their diagnostic criteria to protect us from losing an ASD diagnosis just because we improved so much over time.

This is what I want to see in the near future instead of "It’s rare, but some children with autism spectrum disorder lose their symptoms."
|

APA and Who:

People should not lose ASD diagnosis just because they improved a lot over the years or the symptoms remitted late in life with therapy. ASD is a developmental disorder, the neurology of ASD never goes away, even if the symptoms remitted or improved with therapy later in life. Even if ASD improves with therapy to the point of having no support anymore, They still have the neurology of ASD, even if they no longer show symptoms of ASD from improving with therapy.

ASD is evident from early childhood, even if they lose symptoms of ASD later in life, that does not change the fact that they have history of developmental delay."

Otherwise, this proves to me that "Autism Spectrum Disorder" feels like a joke to me and saying this "It’s rare, but some children with autism spectrum disorder lose their symptoms." does not sounds accurate to me and I hate how they always say "Children", ASD is not a childhood disorder, ASD is a developmental disorder and the neurology of ASD stays the same in adulthood, even if improved with therapy.


Since Autism is a spectrum disorder, the diagnostic criteria should include people who have Broad Autism Phenotype or people with developed social skills but had restricted interests and repetitive behaviors that caused them developmental distress.

I hope you all understand my frustration with American Psychological Association and why I don't agree with what they said about why some children lose ASD diagnosis, even if it is rare. And should they focus on adults as well? Children are not the only ones who have ASD, even adults can be diagnosed with ASD as well.



Double Retired
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20 Jun 2021, 10:26 am

I agree that it is a confusing use of the word "Spectrum". However, after I found this article in Wikipedia I think it may be a correct use of some confusing medical jargon. I always try to get doctors to explain things to me in as simple terms as possible.

I am also confused about whether the kids who lose their diagnosis have lost their Autism. It sounds to me like, in general, if the kid gets really good at hiding their Autism then the doctors declare success and say the kid is cured. Success appears to be based upon the happiness and comfort of the people around the child but in that article I didn't see much about the happiness and comfort of the "cured" kids. Is the kid "normal"? Or, does the kid appear normal because of some ongoing, hidden extra work their mind is doing?

The article mentions that "Many children who appeared to lose the ASD diagnosis developed attention problems, including attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder..." But it is a known thing that many symptoms of ADHD also appear in ASD. Maybe the kids who "appeared to lost the ASD diagnosis" had the wrong diagnosis? Maybe they were ADHD all along?

I'll admit, though, the EDSM intervention sounds good to me.


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FranzOren
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20 Jun 2021, 10:48 am

Double Retired wrote:
I agree that it is a confusing use of the word "Spectrum". However, after I found this article in Wikipedia I think it may be a correct use of some confusing medical jargon. I always try to get doctors to explain things to me in as simple terms as possible.

I am also confused about whether the kids who lose their diagnosis have lost their Autism. It sounds to me like, in general, if the kid gets really good at hiding their Autism then the doctors declare success and say the kid is cured. Success appears to be based upon the happiness and comfort of the people around the child but in that article I didn't see much about the happiness and comfort of the "cured" kids. Is the kid "normal"? Or, does the kid appear normal because of some ongoing, hidden extra work their mind is doing?

The article mentions that "Many children who appeared to lose the ASD diagnosis developed attention problems, including attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder..." But it is a known thing that many symptoms of ADHD also appear in ASD. Maybe the kids who "appeared to lost the ASD diagnosis" had the wrong diagnosis? Maybe they were ADHD all along?

I'll admit, though, the EDSM intervention sounds good to me.



Well, no. ASD is a developmental disorder, it never goes away, the symptoms of mild Autism night go away with therapy, but the neurology of ASD stays the same. But you do have good point though, I am however not sure if misdiagnosis of ASD is even possible, since Autism is treated as a spectrum disorder. Another problem is that you can have both ASD and ADHD at the same time, but your points are good though.

I did explain that ASD is a developmental disorder, it never goes away, but the symptoms might go away later in life with therapy, but that does not take away the fact that you have history of developmental delay.

Thank you!



cyberdad
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21 Jun 2021, 8:21 pm

Dandansson wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
CarlM wrote:
My understanding of the choice of the word "spectrum", by Lorna Wing, was to indicate we are different like colors in the rainbow, rather than to indicate severity. Asperger had called it a "continuum" which implied severity and they want to get away from that inaccurate idea.


In DSM and ICD10 spectrum = continuum

While I understand there are semantic differences it still linked to functionality.

The overall meaning (whether a constellation of traits/comorbidities or a sliding scale) pertains to levels of severity ranging from mild to severe.

:?: do we have an official definition in DSM or ICD of the term "spectrum"?


Both DSM and ICD have been moving away gradually from categorical diagnostic classifications (for example you must have an IQ > 70 to have Aspergers) toward "levels" e.g. Levels 1-3 along the Autism spectrum.



FranzOren
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21 Jun 2021, 8:39 pm

It makes sense.



ronglxy
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23 Jun 2021, 1:40 pm

I'm confused by the Psych's spectrum. Music by analogy, has a physical range of vibration and gives a uniqie measurable number for each.

Some combinations of meat and matter can vary their ranges smoothly through a "spectrum." Other M&M configurations can do only a discrete few, and some only a singleton.

At each spectrum "spot" all can vary loudness as amplitude. That doesn't get "worded" as a spectrum, just a range.

The "Bio gods" have a pallet of AS/ASD "spreads" that they can build to. It's the "Aut. Spectrum." Any "design-built" is "a" discrete point on their pallet. And that point is fixed by the "Bio axioms" build and grow rules.

None change their wiring hardware from the "as-built." Some "as builts" are inherntly loud, intense, etc., others less so. All kinds of inner and outer "influences" can change the loudness. Both psychs and Auts mess about with these "influences" to WP about.

Close? Or is it "think some more" still?



FranzOren
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23 Jun 2021, 2:50 pm

It makes sense.



Fenn
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24 Jun 2021, 7:37 pm

I think of things from an engineering point of view: suppose you need a beam that must be strong and flexible.
Available beams will each have a different strength and flexibility. You cannot simply choose the strongest beam, it may not be be flexible enough, or it might be too flexible. The basic idea is that strength and flexibility can both vary, neither is dependent on the other. When you are talking about the human brain you really have more than just two variables. There are so many variables that they are uncountable. Using the word "spectrum" is just a way to describe the fact that ASD is not a "on or off" kind of thing. The current DSM (DSM-5) has to quantifiable metrics. But humans are more complicated than that. I think the other idea of using the word "spectrum" is that it appeals to the time when spectrography was used to identify different elements in physics. It may also appeal to people who think of the color of people's skin as a way of talking about diversity of culture and country of origin or ethnicity and the "melting pot" idea - as in "the Rainbow Coalition".

Using the word spectrum is useful to different people for different reasons, but all analogies break down someplace.

Human brains don't really exist on a spectrum - they are more complicated than that.

But the word spectrum helps if people think that ASD is something like catching the flu - you either have it or you don't.


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FranzOren
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24 Jun 2021, 9:48 pm

I am sorry that I asked this question, it's just that "Spectrum" may sound too broad to people who are not medical professionals. I hope you know what I mean.

Thank you!



FranzOren
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24 Jun 2021, 10:01 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Everyone does (might as well) have an ASD, but not in the same context as what this thread is discussing.

If my brother can be diagnosed with Asperger's then anyone can. These days someone has only got to be shy and they get an ASD diagnosis.

My boyfriend's friend is trying to get their 2-year-old diagnosed with HFA, even though developmentally she is literally no different to any other 2-year-old. She makes eye contact whenever I see her, is learning to talk at the normal 2-year-old level, plays with toys like a normal toddler, and does all the other things a typically developing toddler might do. But the parents think that everything she does is possible autism.
Usually a toddler who is developing normally wouldn't be assessed for a diagnosis of autism. A 2-year-old should only be assessed for autism if they are showing obvious signs, such as significant lack of eye contact, frequently lining toys up, not learning to talk, etc.

I have a feeling that having Asperger's is going to be a trend soon, where every other baby is getting diagnosed with HFA just for having a personality.
"Oh my baby looks serious in photos, she must have autism!"
"Oh my baby didn't respond to his name, does he have autism?"
"Oh my 2-year-old loves trains, he must be autistic!"
"Oh my 3-year-old is shy at preschool, get her diagnosed!"
"Oh my 14-month-old hasn't said his first word yet, he must be autistic!"



It could be that now a lot of people over age of 50 are now being diagnosed with ASD, because they developed almost in a normal way, That is why it may take decades to figure out that you might have ASD. That is how broad Autism is to me.