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AngelL
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12 Aug 2021, 11:07 am

I am not responsible for other people’s feelings. That said, I should apologize if I hurt their feelings. No one can hurt my feelings unless I let them. As a result, if my feelings become hurt, it is my fault. So, in the course of a conversation, if my feelings get hurt, I’m responsible. And if, in the course of a conversation, your feelings become hurt, it is not my fault, but I should apologize. An apology is ‘a regretful acknowledgment of offense’ according to the dictionary. Basically, I am acknowledging the offense that you are responsible and pretending like I caused it. Oh! And I should always be honest...and authentic; I should totally be authentic.

By ‘being authentic’ I mean, I should be unabashedly and unashamedly me. Unless being me offends the wrong person or society at large. Actually, unless it offends the wrong people OR makes those same people uncomfortable. I am not responsible for making people comfortable, but I shall pay the price for making the police officer, the judge, the social worker, the psychologist, the teacher, the parent, the boss, the co-worker the boss is aspiring to date, the customer service person you need assistance from…or basically anyone, anywhere, for any reason. Actually, it’s not that bad. I still get to be honest and authentic around my peers. I mean, unless my authenticity endangers me or others – like going out in drag in a deep red county in Idaho.

No worries though – all I have to do is to notice the subtle changes in situational context, and ignore the inconsistencies, double binds, and hypocrisies. [sarcasm]How hard could it be?[/sarcasm]



ToughDiamond
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13 Aug 2021, 12:58 am

I see offense and the hurting of feelings as being down to both the agent and the "victim." Hurt feelings and offense can't exist without both parties. I don't think that the "victim" usually creates the entire thing or that the agent does. The "victim" might sometimes have some choice over how hurt or offended they will be, depending on their personality and how they happen to look at the matter, but I think that sometimes they have little or no choice.

There's also the problem that hurt and offense are to a large degree invisible - the "victim" might be making it up or they might completely conceal their feelings, they might play the feelings down or play them up, or they might simply be honest about them. The agent usually has a choice, and if they know an action is likely to offend or hurt, they have a decision to make - whether to plough on regardless, to not perform the action, or to try to compromise. The action is very often visible and it's not usually easy to deny, though sometimes it may be possible to present a distorted idea of how necessary the action was.

So I think it can be a tricky thing to navigate or judge. If I do a thing and somebody says I've offended or hurt them, then I have empathy for their feelings and would have to be very angry with them to want to disregard that. I have to try to gauge the veracity of their claim. If I think they're truly offended or hurt, I have to try to weigh my need to do whatever I'm doing against their need to be relieved of that bad feeling.

I think it's possible to oppress people by behaving without consideration of the offense or hurt that may be caused, and also possible to oppress people by exaggerating hurt and offense and demanding too much control over the agent's behaviour.

Luckily it's not often been a problem for me. People don't offend or hurt me very often, and AFAIK I don't offend or hurt them very often, though the further back I look, the more instances I see of my hurting people's feelings by accident or out of anger, and I was probably more vulnerable to hurt when I was younger, though I also remember a time when I didn't recognise offense as having any meaning at all, having never felt it.



timf
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13 Aug 2021, 6:10 am

Should a person that shouts "FIRE" in a crowded theater be held responsible for his words?



skibum
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13 Aug 2021, 12:05 pm

I am so glad your post was sarcastic (op). I was getting concerned when I was reading it.


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AngelL
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13 Aug 2021, 1:01 pm

skibum wrote:
I am so glad your post was sarcastic (op). I was getting concerned when I was reading it.


Yeah, the 'How hard could it be' part was sarcasm...the rest was pretty much just a rant as I found myself reviewing conflicting social rules.



AnonymousAnonymous
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13 Aug 2021, 1:12 pm

@ OP: You certainly are right. Nobody is responsible for another individual's feelings. As a matter of fact, if one makes attempts to try and control the feelings of another person could be viewed as a sign of abuse.

From a personal perspective, anytime my bigoted uncles visit, they expect me to always behave in a "manly" way which is something I refuse to engage in. In fact, one of them is morbidly obese but both believe that being morbidly obese is a "good thing." :evil:

(As I have mentioned in earlier threads, both uncles believe the spectrum isn't real. :evil: )

Even though I have weight issues myself, I don't want to continue this pathetic tradition in my family.

Whenever my mom makes a mistake, she often blames it on me without any logical reasoning. In fact just a few days ago, she tried provoking me into committing suicide after giving me a nasty facial expression.

Many times, she has said to me that she wished she had two daughters instead of a son and a daughter.


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Harry Haller
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13 Aug 2021, 1:57 pm

AngelL wrote:
I am not responsible for other people’s feelings.

Good deal.
"You are responsible for my feelings" = biggest lie in the book and a tool of manipulation.

That's about it.
Pretty simple when not overthought



AngelL
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13 Aug 2021, 5:27 pm

Harry Haller wrote:
AngelL wrote:
I am not responsible for other people’s feelings.

Good deal.
"You are responsible for my feelings" = biggest lie in the book and a tool of manipulation.

That's about it.
Pretty simple when not overthought


Sure. Seriously, sure. Full stop.

Then I said, "Yes honey, the dress does make you look fat." We, of course, know what the proceeding question was. How about this one though... Boss pitches an idea to the team. Finishes it up with, "So what do you think?" I may not be responsible for my bosses feelings but I am responsible for paying my rent, so I'm not going to say what I'm thinking. Or...and this actually has happened to me...twice.

Police officer: "Do you think I'm stupid?"

Property manager: Can you go on google and submit a review about me so my boss can see it? All I can think is that if I tell the truth she'll be looking for a new job or I'll be looking for a new place to live. Here was my review:

Quote:
Yesterday marked one year since I moved in to <name removed> Apartments. I have owned, as well as rented, in the past; but I've never rented a place past my initial lease. This shall be the first time, because I have no intention of leaving. Like all businesses, the folks that run it can make it or break it - and in this case, the property manager makes it more than an apartment, she insures it's a home.


So the dress makes her look 'hot', the bosses pitch was 'outstanding', the cops a 'genius' or at least 'way smarter then me', and my property manager is the 'bestest ever'.

I may not be responsible for their feelings, but I'll pay for it if I hurt them. It seems kind of like what happens when your insurance company doesn't pay a covered medical expense. You are paying the premium and it's a covered medical expense so they are responsible - but if they don't pay for some reason, the medical provider is coming after you for payment.



AngelL
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13 Aug 2021, 5:33 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
@ OP: You certainly are right. Nobody is responsible for another individual's feelings. As a matter of fact, if one makes attempts to try and control the feelings of another person could be viewed as a sign of abuse.


Excellent point! (re: abuse)

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
From a personal perspective, anytime my bigoted uncles visit, they expect me to always behave in a "manly" way which is something I refuse to engage in. In fact, one of them is morbidly obese but both believe that being morbidly obese is a "good thing." :evil:

(As I have mentioned in earlier threads, both uncles believe the spectrum isn't real. :evil: )

Even though I have weight issues myself, I don't want to continue this pathetic tradition in my family.

Whenever my mom makes a mistake, she often blames it on me without any logical reasoning. In fact just a few days ago, she tried provoking me into committing suicide after giving me a nasty facial expression.

Many times, she has said to me that she wished she had two daughters instead of a son and a daughter.


I am SO sorry you find yourself having to put up with this dynamic. Clearly you know what I'm about to say...but I'm saying it for me... The way that you are being treated and the things that they are saying to you are incredible mean, dysfunctional, hurtful, abusive... and you don't deserve any of it. PM me any time if you need someone to talk to, k?



AngelL
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13 Aug 2021, 5:36 pm

timf wrote:
Should a person that shouts "FIRE" in a crowded theater be held responsible for his words?


It would depend on whether doing so has consequences in their location. If it is against the law to do so (as it would be in the United States) then yes. If it is not against the law, then no.

Independent of the law, I have no opinion.



TenMinutes
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13 Aug 2021, 5:54 pm

AngelL wrote:
No one can hurt my feelings unless I let them. As a result, if my feelings become hurt, it is my fault.


No, people do intentionally hurt your feelings. Sometimes. There are degrees of intent, but it's not your fault.

Least intent: accidental. They didn't intend it. If you're being reasonable and were still hurt, it's still not your fault. Maybe not theirs, either, but not your fault.

Some intent: hurt is predictable. They didn't intend to hurt you, but had they been thoughtful they should have predicted they'd hurt you. Also not your fault.

More intent: they knew it'd hurt, knew better, did it anyway, maybe feel bad about it. Definitely not your fault.

Even more intent: they did it to hurt you. Yes, it happens. You may not be best qualified to know that this is the case, but people do hurt others intentionally. Most definitely not your fault.

The only time it is your fault is if you are finding reason to be hurt in order to hurt them. I've been part of communities where more than a few people do this. Pathological level of manipulation and gaslighting.



Juliette
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13 Aug 2021, 6:31 pm

AngelL, there's no pleasing everyone. That's for certain.

Either you'll be accepted for you, as an individual with your own thoughts, behaviours, uniqueness, and with understanding that we ALL have things to deal with in this life OR the people who judge you, have to deal with their own shortcomings associated with that judgement.

People who are worth your time, will make the effort to truly know and understand you. No matter how hard that might be for them. Nobody is perfect.



browneyedgirlslowingdown
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14 Aug 2021, 11:56 am

It is very hard. This is probably why I keep myself alone almost entirely unless with bf (monthly) or at work. I don't like social situations that are unstructured or have no purpose for this reason. At least at work, I know the rules for not getting fired.

I think I have a few different roles I play that are safe, the at work bestie, the professional, the sister, the cousin, the niece, the daughter. Girlfriend, friend (1), and mom are authentic. And of course, when I am alone or traveling I am 100% me.

I would like to have more social connections where I am free. I think that why I like WP so much, I feel like that here.


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AQ 40/50
Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 153 of 200
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Systemising Quotient (SQ) 78
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CAT-Q 156 Compensation 56 Masking 48 Assimilation 52