Page 3 of 3 [ 46 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

misspuff
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 20

31 Jul 2007, 2:11 am

KimJ wrote:
I don't believe you have to have tics or motor skill problems to have Asperger's. I think those are just some traits you may have.


Yes, you do. It's in the DSM-IV.



misspuff
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 20

31 Jul 2007, 2:14 am

Crazy_Ben wrote:
I believe the point the girl made earlier was merely that to be diagnosed as autistic, you have to meet the DSM-IV criteria for an Autism Spectrum condition, if you don't meet 1 or more traits in each category, you may be PDD-NOS or just a very odd person, but NOT an autistic one.


Thank you!
Someone gets what I mean!



Who_Am_I
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,630
Location: My body is in Brisbane and my mind is in the gutter. :D

31 Jul 2007, 2:17 am

misspuff wrote:
KimJ wrote:
I don't believe you have to have tics or motor skill problems to have Asperger's. I think those are just some traits you may have.


Yes, you do. It's in the DSM-IV.


No you don't.

Quote:
DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA FOR ASPERGER'S DISORDER (DSM IV)


A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction,
as manifested by at least two of the following:

1) marked impairment in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such
as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures
to regulate social interaction;

2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental
level;

3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests or
achievments with other people (eg: by a lack of showing, bringing,
or pointing out objects of interest to other people);

4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity.

B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests,
and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

1) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and
restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity
or focus;

2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines
or rituals;

3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (eg: hand or finger
flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements);

4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social,
occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language
(eg: single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by
age 3 years).

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in
the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behaviour
(other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in
childhood.

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental
Disorder, or Schizophrenia.


Italics and bold text added by me. Section B states that you have to meet ONE of the points in the section. Repetitive motor mannerisms are only one symptom out of the four listed in that section.


_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I


KimJ
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,418
Location: Arizona

31 Jul 2007, 1:42 pm

Quote:
Kanner's Autism is SEVERE, it features retardation, sublevel IQs, inability to function on a daily level.


Is "Kanner's Autism" the actual term in the DSM-IV? Are "high-functioning" and "Kanner's Autism" separate diagnoses? I don't think so. If you're going to correct someone's opinion then you ought to have a very good reason to do so. My son is autistic, diagnosed with plain old "autism". He is not retarded, he isn't "unable to function on a daily level" (whatever that means). His IQ averages to average as he has a wide range of skill and cognitive ability. Not to mention that IQ testing is a poor gauge of intelligence anyway as it's based on verbal communication.

Anectdotal evidence, based on reading accounts here and elsewhere (the news) tells me that Asperger's is not a "milder version" of autism, but a different presentation. I know autistics that hold (good) jobs, are social (enough) and state they are happy with their lifestyles. There are Aspies that can't hold jobs, can't stay in schools, are heavily medicated and/or unable to have satisfying social interactions. This tells me that there are variations among individuals, not a hierarchy of severity among the so-called subsets of autism.



Greentea
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,745
Location: Middle East

31 Jul 2007, 2:11 pm

juliekitty wrote:
I think if someone informed me I wasn't normal, I'd be strongly tempted to congratulate them on their highly developed perception.


When someone tells me I'm not normal, I answer "Are norms important to you?" with a look like they're a kid and I'm all understanding. They immediately start defending themselves, "oh no, norms are not that important to me, actually, blah blah blah"


_________________
So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur.


Taken
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 56
Location: NC

31 Jul 2007, 2:26 pm

Greentea wrote:
juliekitty wrote:
I think if someone informed me I wasn't normal, I'd be strongly tempted to congratulate them on their highly developed perception.


When someone tells me I'm not normal, I answer "Are norms important to you?" with a look like they're a kid and I'm all understanding. They immediately start defending themselves, "oh no, norms are not that important to me, actually, blah blah blah"

ROFLMAO...I like that...I'm going to try it sometime.


_________________
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. ~~
Oscar Wilde


Cervantes
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 31
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

31 Jul 2007, 4:43 pm

Greentea wrote:
Maybe due to AS my values are upside-down, but for me it's a million times worse to discredit a father in front of their common daughter than to take things literally. There seems to be a problem with respecting you in your wife.


/Agree

Also, I agree with your interpretation of what your daughter said. I've been in similar situations more than once, and I never interpreted it to mean "Hey, gimme that thing over there".
I learned to get around it by first stating how they were incorrect, but then pointing out where the item was. Usually they automatically follow up with "can you hand it to me?"



juliekitty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,540

31 Jul 2007, 8:39 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
Italics and bold text added by me. Section B states that you have to meet ONE of the points in the section. Repetitive motor mannerisms are only one symptom out of the four listed in that section.


Thank you!



Crazy_Ben
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 198
Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA

01 Aug 2007, 12:35 am

I should say, for example, that I show ALL 4 traits for Category A; 2 out of Category B; and fit C, D, E but not the last one. Just in case you were wondering what DSM-IV revised ASD criteria I meet.
Most autism experts consider AS to be a KIND of autism differentiated by the fact that the patient is at a higher level of day-to-day functioning than the more severe cases people use to think were the "norm" for autistic. Hence, the term "high-functioning autism." If you're son is not retarded, i.e, his IQ is below the low-end average, than he is "high-functioning" autistic, not a "low-functioning autistic."
For the record, I agree with you that IQ is a somewhat poor gauge of intelligence, whatever it is. Autism experts now recommend that patients be given Raven's Progressive Matrices IQ measure as it is totally non-verbal and has nothing to do with any mathematical concepts either. It most probably is a better measure of intelligence as complex pattern recognition ability.
Finally, I should note that the former Dean of my university's College of Arts & Sciences (guy named Dr. V. Mark Durand, look him up on Google Scholar if you want to read some of his papers) is a world-known autism expert (and USF is the home base of this "Autism Research Center" the university is affiliated with) and I am good friends with 2 girls that have worked in his lab for a couple of years apiece, I'm only stating what experts at the forefronts of theory and behavior mod. think. That may be subject to change of course, as could my own opinion. Regardless, that's great your soon does not have severe autism mam. Help him as much as you can, but remember he is considered to be 'disabled' as are all patients diagnosed with autism. Good or bad, that's what NTs think.


_________________
We are Taiyozoku, the Sun Tribe!


KimJ
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,418
Location: Arizona

01 Aug 2007, 1:02 am

My point is that those terms I quoted you as using are not clinical terms, not based on anything meaningful. That is, they are arbitrary and most people use them subjectively.
"Most autism experts" is a problematic reference, especially when you are referring to largely unknown people that, to you, are on the "forefront". I'm not referring to experts' opinions or pet phrases but actual clinical terms that are used to diagnose.
For example, at one point my son was diagnosed as "severely autistic". When the psychiatrist officially diagnosed him, she said that he was "almost not autistic" (in debilitation) but fit into the criteria of "autism". Note, nowhere did she say he might have "Asperger's", "mild autism", or "high-functioning autism".



bizmack
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 221
Location: San Diego

01 Aug 2007, 1:12 am

im usually extremely one way or the other....very literal or very lost...
strangest thing..think i am going to post about it...


_________________
the conventional view serves to protect society from the painful job of thinking.


ping-machine
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 854

01 Aug 2007, 3:18 am

misspuff wrote:
KimJ wrote:
I don't believe you have to have tics or motor skill problems to have Asperger's. I think those are just some traits you may have.


Yes, you do. It's in the DSM-IV.


Must disagree. The DSM-IV is a list of signs, of which a person must have a certain number in order to be diagnosed with AS. That does not mean all.


_________________
"We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune."


Crazy_Ben
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 198
Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA

01 Aug 2007, 5:28 pm

Yes, I understand your idea. You want "serious" clinical language. But if your son was "severely autistic" and now he's not, that seems to me to merely highlight what I said in substance if not explicitly previously: not all clinicians agree on their own jargon. Also, as I believe I also already pointed out, if I haven't forgive me for the oversight, not all autism researchers believe that AS really exists as a separate "kind" of autism, these researchers ONLY think there is a spectrum from low or non-functional to high-function autism. In their view, it is misleading even to USE the term "Asperger's Syndrome" because Hans Asperger was only describing a variant of Autism, in other words, they think the DSM-IV revised criteria is simply wrong. Don't forget that one time "homosexuality" was listed as a mental disorder, it isn't any more but it may be back in the future depending on how tastes change.


_________________
We are Taiyozoku, the Sun Tribe!


Crazy_Ben
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 198
Location: St. Petersburg, FL USA

01 Aug 2007, 5:30 pm

PS- My paper on the evolution and spread of genes for autism does address such issues as the above, but until it's ready for the next round of peer-reviews, than I won't post it on my myspace or my blog here. Rest assured that when ready, it will be posted however for all to read and/or critique.


_________________
We are Taiyozoku, the Sun Tribe!