narcissistic personality and autism

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That's a good point.
I also believe that narcissistic traits are inherent in human populations for good reason.
Autistic traits also, though the reasons are different.
It's all about nature maintaining a balance.

Developmental delays -- it's normal to children and teenagers to be more self centered, but not adults.

Poor filtering/regulation -- dealing with both incoming and outgoing management -- basically more demanding self care than one's executive functions.

Asocial priorities and focus -- which is not the same as being self centered, but can be registered as.

Rigidity traits -- the whole bit of insisting what's right and wrong, may translate as insensitivity.

Poor sense of self and identity -- can be related to developmental issues. Definitely tied to poor social experience.
Poor sense of belonging, poor validation, compensating by 'self obsession'.


Feel free to add more.

Some sort of related synonym to the word narcistic is most likely being spoken. I don't imagine people are being called "narcistic". The word I have heard sometimes is "arrogant". Which really isn't such a bad thing I imagine.

If someone is perceived as arrogant, it is only a perception. It isn't always a misdiagnoses. It is just a perception? It can be like telling someone they have bad breath in nice way. I guess my point is that few people are really going around using the term "narcistic". And .... if someone is worked up about that specific term, it could be partially in their head.

I like to come up multiple alternatives.

I guess ASD can be mistaken for narcism because self-centeredness is a trait. However, with ASD you are not intentionally being self centered.

The term I've seen used for us is egocentric. I can certainly see that in myself. I have tried to compensate for it but don't think I always succeed. I think I'll go give blood tomorrow, to give an example of compensation. I think anyone who sees it as narcissism doesn't understand what narcissism is.

I think you hit the nail on the head MrsPeel.
The narcissist cannot let go of the story they have made around themselves for protection from their weak sense of self. They seem to actually believe the lies they tell while gaslighting others. They cannot admit any weakness or the whol story would come crashing down.

Thanks for the bit about autists finding it nigh on impossible to get validation from outside. I'd never thought about it quite like that. Very interesting!

Agreed. I have had it compared to me also, and i find it confusing. I realize though, narcissism and aspergers can seem very alike in their mannerisms. And i find in my experience, allot of people are not clued up on autism, and the insides of it. But they are with narcissism. So they "assume" that someone with aspergers, is actually narcissistic. Further education is needed IMHO

Interesting stuff. From what I have read, adults with suspected autism are more likely to pursue a diagnosis compared to those with suspected antisocial personality disorders. I think overall, autism in the UK is generally accepted by society (though I do question this sometimes), however those with disorders such as narcissism and antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy) etc are less likely to come forward for diagnosis due to the way their disorders are portrayed in society, in the media, films, books or internet.

kuze

I get 0 on the NPI, which makes a lot of sense since I grew up around those with Narcissistic and Antisocial PD. It seems like they beat it out of you (sometimes literally). Which is one of those ironic things in life. 0 will be "unhealthy" all the same, just in different ways, and they made a term for it recently. Echoist.

People with ASD are not typically self-centred. I've seen it enough on this forum. They're always wanting to help others, much more than NTs.

I'm trying to actually be more self-centred because I'm sick of always putting others first. I'm trying to think more like the NTs and what they would do in such situations. I'm tired of being a pushover. I'm going to think of myself for once.

I am going to guess that it is also possible to be autistic and a narcissist, since other diagnoses are possible to be "co-morbid" with autism. I loved the list, saw myself in the autism description, but my autistic mother also fit almost every factor described in the narcissistic column. No wonder I have been such a mess most of my life! I never gave the idea of narcissism in my mother much thought before, I just thought she had adapted manipulative ways, and the intent to hurt, shame, blame and control were side effects of her relatively low IQ and her illiteracy due to her dyslexia. Maladaptive coping. Now I am beginning to wonder. Hmmmm. She died before anybody suspected her autism and mine. I am sorting all of this out in my old age, after her death and my autism diagnosis at age 68. I am 70 now. Very interesting discussion. I do agree about the super frequent use of "narcissistic", its a worse "epidemic" than autism ( wink, wink ) if everybody who is claimed narcissistic really "is".

I wonder how many autistic youtubers would score high in a narcissistic personality disorder test?

kuze

Autism isn't a personality thing, NPD is. We have trouble divining other people's feelings, narcissists just don't care. I can see how people who don't think very carefully could confuse the two.

I guess it's possible narcissists have some group-survival purpose. Otherwise it's hard to see why they haven't all long ago been killed. I suppose most leaders are narcissists - if they weren't, they'd probably wouldn't have the cheek to give commands as if there was something superior about them, more of a problem with the idea that the leader somehow knows best what the group should do. And maybe we need leaders to get us through dire emergencies when there isn't time to make decisions democratically.

Theory of mind deficits are involved with both, otherwise there isn't significant overlap.

That said, there's no reason NPD can't be comorbid to ASD. People with ASD are just as capable of developing personality disorders as everyone one.

That bloody E-word mentioned again in the link. I am fed up with having a disorder that has "lack empathy" in the description.

I am ok with being autistic....i like it

I don't have empathy sometimes but I do have compassion...i do feel and I hate. to see any living thing sufferinng