NT is also a disorder or condition?

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What about Frith and Cohen Baron's the Science?

It can produce a lot of discussion, entertainment even

Trouble is they are not only among the worst Psychologists and a great source of confusion, they are presented to us as the science.

One dictionary definition of the word 'neurotypical' is not having, or not associated with, a brain condition, especially autism, that is often considered as different from what is usual.

To be diagnosed with ASD or any other mental health condition we must first satisfy a minimum level of behaviours that are associated with that specific condition, albeit trough tests, interviews and other evidence. I read that many of the mental constructs of persons known as 'normal' are made up of average behaviours with 'elements' of other recognised mental health conditions.

For example, someone with typically normal beliefs and ideas in society may also display one or two mild mental health traits from a wide range of established mental health conditions with varying degrees of intensity. Having one or two traits, for example mild anxiety or a penchant for white lies is unlikely to score high in any mental health assessment. However, some people have significant mental health traits, even partial antisocial personality conditions yet not enough to register an official diagnosis. Many 'normal' people are not self aware of such traits and live their lives in what they perceive as a normal way.

Being autistic, this helps to explain some other humans I have met prior to my diagnosis last year. Nowadays, I tend to spend a lot less time with other people. This helps to minimise communication problems etc.

kuze

I think that autistic people vary a huge amount, also non-autistic people vary a huge amount.

I tend to think of it that there a whole lot of twisty knobs, that determine things like sensitivity to noise, sensitivity to touch, sensitivity to pain, sensitivity to signals from their body (e.g. hunger), sensitivity to eye contact, ability to read facial expressions, ability to make facial expressions, ability to guess what people might feel/think in a certain scenario, ability to know what to say/do in response to something another person says/does/suffers, tendency to suffer anxiety, tendency to be honest, ability to concentrate for long periods, ability to notice details, emotional regulation, and so on.

A particular person (autistic or non-autistic) has each of their dials twisted to a particular position. If a lot of dials are twisted a lot further than average, that person might find living in our current human world (which has been designed with non-autistic people in mind) very difficult and may even need some help.

In my little imagining of how brain wiring goes, each non-autistic (NT) person also has each dial twisted to a certain position. So one of them might have low ability to make facial expressions, or low sensitivity to signals from their body (e.g. hunger), or very high ability to concentrate on details for long periods, or difficulties with emotional regulation. Actually, I know people who I'm pretty sure are neurotypical who fit in each of these four examples. Since just one of their dials is at a very high or very low position, it's unlikely they will be diagnosed as autistic, but they will probably find life difficult or uncomfortable from time to time, depending on the situations that they find themselves in.

Does this sound convincing?

Of course, in reality, it is probably differences in our genes, and in our early environments, that determine complex differences in the wiring pattern and behaviour of our brains. But I like to think of little knobs with labels on!

Neurotypicals are all the same on the outside but have different personalities on the inside. When you go out in public everyone has to be as discreet as possible as not to stand out in any way. You have to all be the same, be normal, follow unwritten rules. You can't show any individuality. It's only until you actually get to know someone that you realise they're an individual with their own interests, quirks, habits, characteristics, desires, feelings, opinions, dreams, etc etc. But otherwise they know how to all be clones on the outside. Basically being out in public means being a clone. Don't be yourself when in public. Ever.

To be a clone you must present yourself like this in public (in no particular order):-

1. Never talk to yourself. You may only talk to people you are with or on the phone, and there are certain topics you may only discuss. The topics have to be positive but mundane and must not make your individuality too obvious.

2. Never show emotion when you're not interacting with anyone. You must be blank, not show any signs of nervousness or excitement or anything. Don't even smile or whisper your thoughts to yourself or show any sort of feelings. You must be neutral at all times.

3. If you're a woman and your legs or armpits are visible they must not be hairy at all, otherwise YOU WILL BE RIDICULED so severely that it will just suck.

4. You must be normal. If you're not normal then it should be obvious, like if you're in a wheelchair or you have a carer with you or something. Otherwise, if you're an able-bodied independent adult then you have to be normal.

5. If you are 5 or under, you are free to kick and scream out your frustration and you will not be judged. You must not show any sort of despair at small children for having tantrums, you must tolerate it even if they're screaming right next to you. Getting up and walking away will just make it obvious that you're feeling an emotion, which is forbidden in public. Unless you're aged 5 or under.

6. Don't be autistic or Tourette's. For heaven's sake don't be. People aren't educated to tolerate this sort of neurodiversity and we don't care to either.

7. Don't run unless you are in the correct running gear. Don't walk too fast either. It might show emotion.

8. If you're waiting for a bus that is frustratingly late and you're getting anxious, DO NOT show that you're getting anxious. Just stand there very patiently and wait like a saint, even if it's 5 hours. You may express emotion if you are with someone or talking on the phone but it must not be extreme. Your body language must remain calm and cool though.

9. Do not, under any circumstances, cover your ears at a loud siren going past or a loud motorcycle. People don't like it and will make it their business if they see you with your fingers in your ears. You may put a finger in one ear but make it discreet. Covering your ears is showing an emotion, which is forbidden in public.

10. Always look relaxed and cool, like you don't care. Never be thinking too much, otherwise it might trigger a facial expression or a certain vibe of emotion. If you do need to think, only think lightly about the next store or house you're going to. Don't think about your life or your problems.

11. Don't cry, even if you're a woman. People will stare. Remember, you're not supposed to express emotions when out in public. Two exceptions: you can cry at a funeral (although this doesn't really count as a public event unless it's an open funeral for anyone to attend whilst passing by), and you can cry at the movies if you're watching a sad movie, but only as far as wiping your eyes and sniffing slightly. Don't overdo it.

12. Don't trip or fall. If you are age about 8 or under then it's OK, and if you're elderly people may be concerned and help you up. If you're not a child or elderly or physically disabled, you will just be laughed at, especially if you slip on ice. You must develop a skill to be able to walk upright on icy sidewalks. Even on the most slippery surfaces, it is expected to not slip over. The embarrassment may hurt more than the bump.

13. Don't look stressed in a crowded store. People nearby will take it personally and give you odd looks. Remember, people don't like people expressing emotion.

14. Don't be eating whilst walking along. But you can smoke poison your lungs and passers by whilst walking along.

15. When standing waiting for someone, never fiddle or pace or look awkward. You must look chilled, and scope your environment. If you're a guy, have your hands in your pockets and pace a little bit but not too much. If you're a woman have your hand or hands clutching a purse and try not to pace. Reposition your feet every couple of minutes but still keeping a chilled posture.

16. Don't wear sunglasses in the winter, even if it's a bright, sunny day. Don't wear shorts in the rain, even on a really hot, rainy day. Don't wear summer clothes in the winter or vice versa, no matter what your circumstances are.

17. Don't have pale skin. People with pale skin must be at least a bit tanned, using fake tan. White skin is not acceptable.

18. Only ride things that are trendy. For example, electric scooters are OK now, but adults (especially women) on skateboards or skates are not allowed because they are not trendy...yet.

19. Only wear clothes that are in fashion. If you spend a lot of money buying something that's currently in fashion only for it to go out of fashion, do not wear it once it goes out of fashion. Remember, you have to look like everyone else.

20. Don't go out looking unkempt, mostly if you are a woman. Women must look clean and pretty at all times. Hair must be washed and styled right at all times. All visible body hair must be removed (unless it's on the head of course. In that case do not go out with a bald head even if you're undergoing chemotherapy treatment. People won't care to understand. You must get a wig).

21. Don't fart in public. Burping is acceptable if you cannot help it but not if it's too loud or deliberate. While we're on the subject, don't poop in public bathrooms. Public bathrooms are for peeing only. If you do poop, try not to make it sound as it plops into the toilet and try not to make it smell. People will forget that it's a normal bodily function and will scowl at you for being gross when you come out of the toilet stall.

22. If you realise you're going the wrong way, don't just stop and turn around. You have to slowly stop and fumble in your pocket or purse for a few seconds then casually turn around.

23. If you're a man, have money in the back pocket of your jeans. It is cool to reach in your back pocket on your arse to get out money and it doesn't make you vulnerable to muggers. If you're a woman you must have a bag with a coin purse inside with all your money in. This probably makes you more vulnerable to muggers because your bag is easier to grab than stuff in your pockets, but if you have money in your pockets - even pockets that can be securely zipped up - people will think you're too stupid to understand that there are muggers out there.

24. Don't limp, even if you have a really painful blister or bunion or any other foot problem. People don't like people that have a limp - unless they're elderly.

Can't think of any more. I'll go to sleep now.

Yes it does sound convincing! I love this! But what I want to know is who twisted my knobs in the fist place? Was it my mother?
'Dont touch that dial'

kuze

The problem with all of this is there are autistic people who are actually closer to NTs than they are to other autistic people.

I think it's not really a problem?

We are all part of the enormous diversity of humanity. We have many differences between any two people on the planet, but much in common too.. As Marcus Aurelius says, we are all 'A mess of blood, pieces of bone, a woven tangle of nerves, veins, arteries.'

I'm not diagnosed, but have some autistic traits and some neurotypical traits. I'm happy to be a 'mongrel'.

It’s a funny question since NT is an abbreviation for Neurotypical.

A word science created as a zero measuring point for “normal” like 20/20 vision is normal, ( neither long or short sighted)

Neurotypical means “normal brain working” or unaffected

If being NT is a condition you would have to ask what is NOT a brain condition?

Since if NT is labeled a condition it would mean all humans either autistic or NT then have a brain disorder

So where’s the zero measuring point of not having a disorder?

since there would no longer be a label to describe that since it would mean no human in history with a normal brain, so what’s normal then

The implications are funny and absurd at the same time

There are two 'types' of what is regarded as NTs as far as I know;
Passers. Who knows a step or two and won't tell the world much about it because they're saving face.
Most of these tend to be just like everyone else. Just as vulnerable in varying measures. And I'm not talking about NDs.
They are true average joes.

And people who embodies *insert automatic perk that they don't ever have to work to get here* who don't actually knows the steps except 'just do it' -- they're the type who never have to deal with anything about themselves.
They're more reliable, they had it easier, they don't have to nor need anything special. Except they're resilient and willful in a truer sense -- physical and emotional bruises do not hinder them.
They're the definition of the zero measuring point of not having a disorder.


The latter is NOT statistically common, therefore they're not NTs in a statical sense -- they're just the lucky ones -- both genetically and environmentally favored -- and is mistaken as the NT 'no impairments, no traumas, no symptoms, no 'issues' person, no disorder, etc...
In reality, they're not "typical" as the name neurotypical suggests.

And no, they're not gifted or anything extraordinary. They're more like the dandelions amongst the crowds of tulips and orchids.

But the majority of humans assumes the latter is how the majority works, so far had labeled the latter type as 'normal', admires the model beyond that and is striving to become that.
And many likes to pretend like one of those people.


Lastly... The dichotomy of 'autistic' and 'NT' is incorrect. The dichotomy is between 'autistics' and 'allistics', as is NDs to NTs.

Go to another ND forum or board -- ones that aren't specifically used by autistics (ADD, BPD, even psychopaths).
They'd all generally use the term NT as someone who is simply excluded from whatever label they're under or whatever experience they do not relate nor associate themselves with.

I think whether a set of traits amount to a disorder or not is a matter of subjective judgement, and that there's no definitive answer. The whole concept of who is mentally ill and who isn't can be very politically charged and has sometimes been used to keep certain minorities down. I've seen one or two web pages that lampoon neurotypicality as "Neurotypical Syndrome," and they did resonate with me - the idea that NTs are rather unhealthy appeals to me emotionally. That's not to say that I really think they're objectively ill. In the end, one person either likes a trait in another person or they don't. There's a lot about mainstream people and neurotypical traits that I don't like, so it's tempting for me to label them as sick, but the only objective thing I can say about them is that I don't like it when they do this or that.

I assume by “step” you mean those with mental health disorders or hf masking aspies?.

NT is a label or zero measurement marker for those with no known neuro developmental disorders first identified in childhood. So mental health disorders picked up later in life like depression would not be included. I possibly wouldn’t include schizophrenia or bi polar either as it develops much later in life and can be controlled with drugs

A Neuro developmental disorder is diagnosed on negatives or things a person cannot do that a NT can, like talk for example.

That is why being NT is not a condition because it has no neuro developmental disability symptoms that block an individual`s path in life

Of course you get those flat earthers who try to dispute and are in denial that autism is a pathology or disorder for the 98% of us, despite international medical science agreement and general basic logic.

Does this mean a malnourished and constantly ill NT won't affect it's development? It's as easy as depriving them of iodine or drop them as a newborn.
Or heck, just suffocate them in the womb would do.

The trait 'able to talk' is a poor example.
As if there's no such thing as a born nonverbal NT. Let alone NTs with delays or loses it due to
an unsuitable environment.
Only the "lucky special ones" won't get that.


"Step" refers to many things -- from managing vulnerabilities to working harder to achieve the same results consciously to avoiding bullets of adversities.

It's like comparing a naturally talented person vs a very determined hard worker who have to practice several times a week to match that talented person.
Or comparing lifestyles of someone in a dangerous neighborhoods vs someone where children can be free ranged.

It doesn't surprise me who would held a grudge, who would falter and hit the ceiling due to burnout.
Let alone extreme examples.
It doesn't necessarily have to be about aspies or autism. But sure, it can be applied to mental health and learning in general.


Anyways.
The way you're defining NT is not based on stats, and it's more based on exclusion.

And defining NT based on exclusion implies under such group is afflicted by ignorance and insensitivity by being 'unaffected'.
I understand envying the ignorance and insesitivity -- of not having to deal with whatever.

Was it because of defining ND by deficit and not by divergence from the stat that is dubbed as typical?

I understand such definition -- in which ND means it's about their in born hardwiring, instead of diverged states which can happen at any point in life.
The official definition tends to be on the latter.

But I won't define divergence of hardwiring as deficit, because deficit is just one very wide type yet specific form of divergence.


How autism is a disability or not is irrelevant.
It can be a disability to someone by just, what, consuming more than enough sugar and not enough fiber?
Though as much as I wish that's how it works in dyspraxia and low IQ...

The world is becoming more ADHD-like if one wants an update about that.
And if such is the case, statistically speaking, definition of NT would lean towards ADHD traits.

NT cannot be a disorder by definition. NT literally means a neurological system absrnt of disorder.

Absent
WP deos not let me edit

This. NT is the standard, average, majority, whatever you'd like to call it. It's like saying physical health is an illness or something.

I think some autistic people just like to pin NTs as disordered to make themselves feel superior. Like the person who wrote the stupid "neurotypical syndrome" article. A load of garbage.

Exactly NT is nothing more than those excluded from having a neuro developmental disorder.

They have to call them something to be able to do comparisons like the average NT learns to talk by 18 months, the average autistic person 4 years.

Some people read too much into these things and just see what they want to see to fit their own narrative