Who gets insulted, verbally abused, mocked and ridiculed?

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Shadweller
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06 Jun 2022, 1:43 pm

Joe90 wrote:
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At the same time I am not on this earth to be a doormat for people to walk all over as they see fit. It's a balancing act. For me, pretending to ignore it and act as if i dont care has never worked.This is what my parents told me to do, but it does not work for me. It leaves me seething with resentment for hours, days, months, or years. When I do say something i immediately feel glad and better. It is a mark of self respect to not take s**t from any rude and ignorant twat. Nor should I.


That. Is. Exactly. EXACTLY. How I feel, only you've worded it better.
Ignoring = putting up with it/tolerating it.

The cliche is that bullies or whatever they are only want a reaction, but this is not always the case. Some bullies seem surprised when they get a reaction. If bullies (a.k.a people who don't care about your feelings) think they can get away with belittling someone then they will. And by ignoring them, you are letting them get away with it.

And I believe in the adult world bullies actually don't do the things they do for a reaction. They do these things because they feel like it and don't understand how it's making you feel.

I spent all my high school life ignoring bullies, but it never made them go away. In fact the more I ignored them the worse they got. Then others saw that I was too weak to stand up for myself, and they joined in, thinking it was a game. They were having a great time humiliating me. And really, I just looked the idiot for walking along with my nose in the air ignoring them because it meant I was just letting them have their fun.

Ironic word of advice: ignore those who tell you to ignore.


Thank you. It may have worked for Jesus of Nazareth who apparently always turned the other cheek, at least according to Sunday School teachers. BUt I know for a fact that it does not work for a lot of people who live in today's real world. In fact it makes these people nothing but a laughing stock and a helpless pitiful victim. Much better to attempt to learn to stand up for onself in my opinion. I don't care if it takes me dozens of attempts before I start developing some form of skill at the verbal comeback. Maybe i never will. But i will never know unless i try. It may be something that will improve with practice. I don't see why not. I am not an idiot, despite what these ignorant twats may think. I dont care if some of attempts are laughable and pathetic, it is better than saying nothing and being left to fester.

I agree that one should not be provoked to anger. We should choose our response and not just blindly react without thought. We should choose to respond in an appropriate way. Uncontrolled anger would not be a good response.



ezbzbfcg2
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06 Jun 2022, 1:54 pm

Shadweller wrote:
I am not a violent person, I dont want to get into fights...


Be vigilant, OP. Some people are quick to violence, especially against people they consider beneath them who they feel have provoked them (even if they themselves are the provocateurs). I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's reality. Some people are quick to respond with violence and will attack out of nowhere. Even women. Keep this in mind, and be safe.



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06 Jun 2022, 5:55 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Shadweller wrote:
I am not a violent person, I dont want to get into fights...


Be vigilant, OP. Some people are quick to violence, especially against people they consider beneath them who they feel have provoked them (even if they themselves are the provocateurs). I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's reality. Some people are quick to respond with violence and will attack out of nowhere. Even women. Keep this in mind, and be safe.


That's quite true...you can have people with pathological personalities who have less problems with committing violence, especially with those they deem "less than". And the big trouble in those situations is, if there's an adverse outcome which there almost certainly will be, then the instigator's entourage will cover for him and tell the cops that YOU threw the first punch. It's really a no-win situation. Best thing is to make sure you're dealing with them in a more public setting with surveillance cameras and impartial witnesses - which means outside of classrooms, house parties or shared living spaces, or even outside of packed bars and clubs... they'll be more reluctant to react adversely.



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06 Jun 2022, 6:14 pm

The lame-ass advice of "just ignore the bully" only works if the bully is a one-off, i.e. you'll likely never see them again, or very infrequently. Like someone who cuts in line in front of you and smirks as if you're "beneath them" (had this happen a couple of times), or some imbecile who honks at you to walk faster when you've got the right of way, or if you worked in customer service and someone's being really unreasonable (and/or abusive) with their complaint.

Of course, the "just ignore" advice in these one-offs have exceptions, as social rules tend to... like if you're a guy on a date with a girl at some tavern, especially if she's your girlfriend, and some meatheads take it upon themselves to harass you or ask the girl "what are you doing with a dork like him??" :evil:

I hate to say it, but a few people can still be meathead bullies into their 20s - I know from experience. When I was in uni/college, I'd go to bars/clubs with a couple of close trusted friends who accepted me, and every now and then these two guys who were like the stereotypical "Chads" or cocky jock types would make asinine comments at me, ask if I was gay, sabotage my chat-ups with women... one time at a house party one of them assaulted me but there were no impartial witnesses. (This was in the 90s before my diagnosis, and before everyone had smartphones.) Still I didn't stand up to them because I would've likely ended up in hospital (maybe with long-lasting injuries), or I would've been dealing with the cops and lawyers.

Yeah, I know. With examples like these, it seems hard to believe that WE'RE the ones who lack decorum or empathy
:( :x



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06 Jun 2022, 6:46 pm

When we humans think of "bully" we picture kids in the playground flushing another kid's head down the toilet or taking their lunch money or beating them up behind the bike sheds. In adulthood that sort of bullying rarely happens. It's more subtle and passive-aggressive.

And it's not just people in their 20s, as I've been bullied by people (women) in their 60s at a voluntary job I used to do. They were cliquey and often criticised me about things that were none of their business, and I knew they often moaned about me behind my back. It was only about 3 people but they were there nearly every day so I had no choice but to see them whenever I went in and I started to feel uncomfortable around them, because they were judging me and nitpicking at everything I did and didn't do. I left unexpectedly in the end because I decided I wasn't going to be treated that way any more.
I done voluntary work to gain confidence, but being treated like that wasn't doing my confidence much good. It made me realise that people can be nasty in the adult world too. I don't understand why people choose to be nasty for. How do they sleep at night knowing that they are a nasty person? Who really wants to be a nasty person?

Quote:
Yeah, I know. With examples like these, it seems hard to believe that WE'RE the ones who lack decorum or empathy
:( :x


Well, whenever the topic about empathy is brought up the answer is usually that a lot of NTs use empathy to bully (even though the word empathy is always used synonymously with kindness and understanding). So if we Aspies started bullying innocent people just to make ourselves feel good, it will be empathy? :scratch:
I mean, if someone (NT or not) is a victim of bullying and someone said "those bullies have a lot of empathy for you", the bully victim would probably disagree!


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06 Jun 2022, 7:25 pm

Joe90 wrote:
When we humans think of "bully" we picture kids in the playground flushing another kid's head down the toilet or taking their lunch money or beating them up behind the bike sheds. In adulthood that sort of bullying rarely happens. It's more subtle and passive-aggressive.


Yes, agree with you 100% on this. Even when it's doing the instigator harm, they'll still act in these P-A manners. There's an expression for this, called "cutting one's nose off to spite one's face".

However, you can still get occasional young adult bullies, who engage in more "blunt force" bully tactics, like a small fraction of men in their 20s... like I mentioned... obviously, the penchant for physical bullying, harassment and intimidation is reduced due to legal consequences, some of those sociopathic types will still do it if they feel that no-one will "rat them out" or "grass on them". Which includes the bully victim himself (I say "him"), because there's a certain stigma in society that men don't report criminal violence against them by other men - at least in certain circles, definitely in gangs, some ethnic communities, and in lower-class neighbourhoods, and to some degree in the uni/college "party culture".
Doesn't help that many cops fit the stereotype of the alpha/bully/"Chad" type, so they may put their personal bias in front of their professional duty, if a young man complains about physical bullying from another young man 8O



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06 Jun 2022, 8:10 pm

Jayo wrote:
However, you can still get occasional young adult bullies, who engage in more "blunt force" bully tactics, like a small fraction of men in their 20s... like I mentioned... obviously, the penchant for physical bullying, harassment and intimidation is reduced due to legal consequences, some of those sociopathic types will still do it if they feel that no-one will "rat them out" or "grass on them". Which includes the bully victim himself (I say "him"), because there's a certain stigma in society that men don't report criminal violence against them by other men - at least in certain circles, definitely in gangs, some ethnic communities, and in lower-class neighbourhoods, and to some degree in the uni/college "party culture".
Doesn't help that many cops fit the stereotype of the alpha/bully/"Chad" type, so they may put their personal bias in front of their professional duty, if a young man complains about physical bullying from another young man 8O

Yes. When a man is a victim of physical bullying, it's not taken seriously, or worse it's taken as a "fight". If the man that is bullied tries to fight back, then he can be seen as "someone who participated in a fight". If he complains, then he's shamed for being weak. Really no escape.

Another thing I want to point out about bullying is that often those that bully someone think what they are doing is not bullying and is justified because the person they are bullying is weird/an outcast/hated by everyone. Some people at work show passive aggressive behavior towards me and look "proud" or something because many people talk badly of me and they think they are doing justice by attacking me. Yet they actually don't even know me directly. I think this is one of the problems in bullying that are not really recognized.



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06 Jun 2022, 9:20 pm

Shadweller wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:

Okay!

You said something and now what? What did it accomplish? Did you change any of these people's minds on anything? Did it get them to respect you anymore then they do? Or, are they still continuing to talk behind your back? Did they get any kind of insight from you?

The truth is you saying something accomplished absolutely nothing. It changed nothing. It didn't make anyone feel guilty or think about anything.

So with that being said...

Let them talk about you. Does it matter what they really said in the long grand scheme of things? Why?

Will they even remember you after a week or two? I bet they won't and they will continue to do what they always done before they met you.

In the end, who in the f**k cares what they think. They don't give a damn what you think. YOU DO YOU! LET THEM DO THEM! f**k them to hell and back!

This is what I said to my SO when a couple of dudes called her a bed wench for some BS reason (I didn't even know wtf it even meant at the time) when "I didn't defend her" and she wanted to say something to them.

Why? What's the f*****g point? It accomplishes nothing. It changes nothing. It sure as s**t didn't change their mind. So, I'm telling you what I told her. Who cares what they think. f**k them to hell and back!

If you must say something and I personally see all these haters as beneath my notice (so I really don't care) then tell them to eat a dick and keep it moving. That's it! It's that simple! Tell them to eat a dick if you really feel you should say something back which I think it is a waste of your time and energy.

I do think you should work on things that you have control over like your anger especially internalizing.

I did and sometimes do have the bad habit of internalizing anger. I know it is easier said then done and I do still hang on to grudges and I'm still working on things but the truth is we got to let it go.

If you can do that then you shall be at the first step at mastering the force. :D

But the truth is anger is like a slow acting poison that kills you slowly in more ways then one.


Yes I agree that I should work on my ease of provocation. At the same time I am not on this earth to be a doormat for people to walk all over as they see fit. It's a balancing act. For me, pretending to ignore it and act as if i dont care has never worked.This is what my parents told me to do, but it does not work for me. It leaves me seething with resentment for hours, days, months, or years. When I do say something i immediately feel glad and better. It is a mark of self respect to not take s**t from any rude and ignorant twat. Nor should I. This tells me something I have to trust my own inner guide on this. I think this is what will work for me. My Dad takes no s**t from anybody, he has an incredible knack of turning any insult right back at anyone who has attempted to slight him, and make them feel like the small piece of s**t that they truly are for trying to get something over on someone who is autistic and deaf as in the case of my father. I agree there is nothing to be gained by losing it and making a fool of oneself. The thing is that I am not quick witted in such situations so I will either need to prepare ready responses for common scenarios that have cropped up and may crop up again. I resent being treated as someone fool that hey think they can get one over on me to boost their fragile ego by feeling socially superior to an Autistic person. Such people really are lowly pieces of s**t.


I understand what you are saying.

I just simply don't see it your way.

I am tired of people's BS but in the end will my "standing up to them" do anything? Will it get them to see the light? Will it change society's values and standards?

Will standing up make me feel better about things. For me, I say no because I don't feel like I accomplished or changed anything?

If someone says something mean to me or something out of line for me it doesn't accomplish anything to put out a quick retort or to stand up for myself. Stand up! Why? Why must I? For what purpose does it give to me or my SO?

Someone says to me "You're stupid!" Okay! And! Your point???

Some as*hole says to my SO "Bed wench" Okay! And! Your point??? Why does my SO need to feel protected in this case? Protected from what? A few words that in the end won't mean anything in the long stream of your life?

There was one time I did stand up for my SO and that was when another dude threatened physical violence.



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06 Jun 2022, 9:26 pm

Here is what you can say because it's true: "Are you so insecure that the only way you can make yourself feel good is to pick on and laugh at a severely disabled person? "

Say that and see what happens. Good job not tolerating the crap from those people.


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07 Jun 2022, 1:15 am

I will say this a number of people who treated me like s**t are either dead or living sh***y lives.

And, two of the companies I worked for in my past who screwed me over are long since gone.

One man who called me a stupid mother f****r years ago has long since passed away.



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07 Jun 2022, 1:33 am

I was pretty much the target of all my older brother's contempt for what he saw as socially unfit people. He mocked me every time I met him until I finally moved out of my country. For the first 3 years, when I was still in Europe, he didn't care about me as long as I was home for Christmas. Then I left Europe, spent years not seeing his face and suddenly I got an email saying he "missed me".

Alright, I thought I'll give him one last chance. So I went home this year, met him, and although I wasn't mocked much, all our conversations were basically about either a) how successful he was, or b) how much he missed being "big brother". I.e. he doesn't care about me personally, he cares about feeling "big" in relation to my presence (which is arguably less successful) so he can feel even better about himself.

Screw him, it doesn't matter that we're family. Family members get nasty in ways even regular bullies don't, because they know every little secret about you and every switch to flip to make you feel worse. If I never meet him from now on I'd live a happy life.



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07 Jun 2022, 2:27 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
I will say this a number of people who treated me like s**t are either dead or living sh***y lives.

And, two of the companies I worked for in my past who screwed me over are long since gone.

One man who called me a stupid mother f****r years ago has long since passed away.


This^^^

As people get older it becomes easier to criticise them. The level playing field bullies once had in school often gets turned into chaos with the peaks and troughs everyone has to go through as the years pass.

No good being a bully when said bully is fat and unemployment or destitute. The intimidation factor drops a lot of they're unsuccessful people as adults. All you need to do is highlight their failures and they'll feel two feet high.

Don't be afraid to slam into someone for their failures if they're being arrogant and cocky towards you in the hope of being demeaning.



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07 Jun 2022, 7:17 am

Nades wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
I will say this a number of people who treated me like s**t are either dead or living sh***y lives.

And, two of the companies I worked for in my past who screwed me over are long since gone.

One man who called me a stupid mother f****r years ago has long since passed away.


This^^^

As people get older it becomes easier to criticise them. The level playing field bullies once had in school often gets turned into chaos with the peaks and troughs everyone has to go through as the years pass.

No good being a bully when said bully is fat and unemployment or destitute. The intimidation factor drops a lot of they're unsuccessful people as adults. All you need to do is highlight their failures and they'll feel two feet high.

Don't be afraid to slam into someone for their failures if they're being arrogant and cocky towards you in the hope of being demeaning.


I'm not afraid. I just find it pointless to do so. What is my gain for it exactly? Will I get other people's respect? Even if it did why should I care if someone respects me or not? And, will it stop them from being arrogant and cocky? Will this bully all of a sudden see the light? My experience is no. And, eventually I will die and we all will die. So, we all end up in the same place, six feet under. And, thousands to millions of years will pass and my bones will eventually be dust. Finally, our sun will burn out and even the universe will eventually end.

Looking at all this. It seems like we're all playing to some kind of script. What exactly is the point?



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08 Jun 2022, 11:36 am

The way I see it, if people pass me and make some insulting comment and start laughing then that is rude, ignorant and disrespectful. I could pretend that I don't care, but I would be lying to myself. For the sake of my own self respect I have decided that I am no longer going to tolerate being treated this way.

However, in the moment, these things usually happen at exactly those times when I am at my most vulnerable, stressed, weakest, most uncomfortable etc etc, sometimes near or past the edge of shutdown / meltdown etc so so I genereally dont have my wits about me as much as I would like in these situations.

So If I don't manage to say anything at all those times, I will be better spending that energy thinking about what I could have said, rather than just boiling up with resentment and anger. Then maybe next time something similar happens I will have something readily prepared to say to these ****** that think it is acceptable to openly laugh at and ridicule lone and vulnerable Autistics.

It may not change anything in the grand scheme of things, apart from how I feel, which as far as I am concerned If It will help me avoid having my whole day ruined then it makes every sense to take action. It cant possibly make me feel any worse after these encounters than I already do. That would not be possible. Even if I come off worse during some of these encounters practice makes perfect.

Ignorant ***** need educating that they cant go round ridiculing Autistics with no consequence. That is just not on.

I understand what people mean when they say that you don't have to internalise other people's opinions/ attitudes or whatever. Every situation is different. In some scenarios things seem much clearer and it is easy to think "that person simply does not have the faintest idea of understanding" and then it is easy to dismiss them without needing to internalise anything. When it is much crueller and meaner in the form of open mockery then it can be much harder to achieve the dismissive response, because it is purely nasty behaviour, and not simply a lack of understanding.. At least I am finding it so currently. Its about vulnerability and strength in my opinion.



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09 Jun 2022, 7:26 pm

It's just a theory I've got, but people who have more of an understanding of ASD/HFA/NVLD based on studies or what-have-you, would be less inclined to mock those on the spectrum - my gut feeling is that these folks would be more enlightened about it. I have actually met such people IRL.

Conversely, those who act like asshats and d-bags towards ND people are more likely to have not even a cursory understanding of autism.



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09 Jun 2022, 11:22 pm

Jayo wrote:
It's just a theory I've got, but people who have more of an understanding of ASD/HFA/NVLD based on studies or what-have-you, would be less inclined to mock those on the spectrum - my gut feeling is that these folks would be more enlightened about it. I have actually met such people IRL.
diff
Conversely, those who act like asshats and d-bags towards ND people are more likely to have not even a cursory understanding of autism.

That may very well be true Jayo but I have had a little different experiences because I have had family like my grandfather bully me a lot and be cruel to me a lot while he was alive even though he knew I was on the spectrum.He even asked me "if I was ever going amount to anything?"Other members of my family have ridiculed me despite knowing about my troubles.
I get blamed for my own problems a lot by people who know I am on the spectrum includign my own parents.I am not saying this to invalidate your theory but just to say I have had different experience at times.My parents call me lazy.I was afraid of going to my grandparents house every time i was there and my grandfather would make me cry a lot while he was alive.he was a very cruel man.I dont know why he had to bully me despite knowing I was different.Well I do.He believed in tough love and was old school.But he was a very horrible man sometimes.One time he even just about made me cry at church because he lost his patience with me on a sunday morning as I was in the hallway.Ya I am glad I dont have to worry about his constant bullying and my parents never sticking up for me in front of me when he was constantly ridiculing me.



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