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TwilightPrincess
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21 Jul 2022, 9:03 am

If you say that you’ve discovered the cause of something through research, you are obligated to share that research if you want people to believe you or take you seriously. It’s not picking on you; it’s just how it is.

Otherwise, I could say that my research has proven that we were brought to Earth by aliens, and I would expect you to believe me without evidence.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 21 Jul 2022, 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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21 Jul 2022, 9:05 am

The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.


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TwilightPrincess
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21 Jul 2022, 9:06 am

I want to see how your “intense research” regarding autism and astrology holds up to scrutiny.


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Fnord
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21 Jul 2022, 9:08 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.
Agreed.

Of the two people in a hypothetical discussion -- one asserting the claim that "X causes Y", and the other denying that claim -- it is the person asserting the claim who bears the burden of proof.

"I believe it", "I do not want to discuss it with non-believers", and "Prove me wrong" are neither proof nor a defenses of the asserted claim.



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21 Jul 2022, 9:11 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
I want to see how your “intense research” regarding autism and astrology holds up to scrutiny.
Me too; especially since none of the research I have performed has provided any support for the OP's claim that the positions of the stars and planets at one's birth bear any determinant factors upon that person's eventual autistic spectrum disorder.



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21 Jul 2022, 9:14 am

Under both anecdotal and scientific scrutiny, I doubt very much that it can be "proven" that being under a certain astrological sign creates a predisposition towards acquiring an autism spectrum disorder.

For the most part, under the present definition, a person is born either with autism, or a predisposition towards acquiring autism under some sort of environmental stress which occurs during infancy.



TwilightPrincess
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21 Jul 2022, 9:16 am

Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.
Agreed.

Of the two people in a hypothetical discussion -- one asserting the claim that "X causes Y", and the other denying that claim -- it is the person asserting the claim who bears the burden of proof.

"I believe it", "I do not want to discuss it with non-believers", and "Prove me wrong" are neither proof nor a defenses of the asserted claim.


Until he enlightens us with the supposed evidence of his new discovery, logical people will have no choice but to dismiss his claims.


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envirozentinel
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21 Jul 2022, 9:20 am

I have some reason to believe my father might have been on the spectrum. In fact he might have found that drinking improved his ability to connect with people and that's how he became alcoholic while I was a pre-schooler.

Other more distant family members might have been on the spectrum too.

My mom had hepatitis during her pregnancy. I was born three weeks early. But she was only 20 when I was born, and my dad was 24.

Thus most of the OP's claims do NOT apply to me and like others here have pointed out, star signs don't count at all when it comes to determining the causes of autism or Asperger's.


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Fnord
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21 Jul 2022, 9:26 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim.
Agreed.  Of the two people in a hypothetical discussion -- one asserting the claim that "X causes Y", and the other denying that claim -- it is the person asserting the claim who bears the burden of proof.  "I believe it", "I do not want to discuss it with non-believers", and "Prove me wrong" are neither proofs nor defenses of the asserted claim.
Until he enlightens us with the supposed evidence of his new discovery, logical people will have no choice but to dismiss his claims.
Yes, all of them.
envirozentinel wrote:
I have some reason to believe my father might have been on the spectrum. In fact he might have found that drinking improved his ability to connect with people and that's how he became alcoholic while I was a pre-schooler.
My dad had all the symptoms of a bipolar disorder, and he refused to get a diagnosis, preferring instead the warm glow of self-medication with alcohol long after I was born.  Mom denied she took any medication while she was pregnant with me -- "Not even an aspirin", she said.
envirozentinel wrote:
Thus most of the OP's claims do NOT apply to me and like others here have pointed out, star signs don't count at all when it comes to determining the causes of autism or Asperger's.
He is not the first to make unscientific claims as to the alleged cause(s) of autism spectrum disorders.  I am sure he will not be the last.



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21 Jul 2022, 9:28 am

My mother smoked. And she had what was termed "neuroses" in the 1960s.

My brother came out NT; I came out autistic.



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21 Jul 2022, 9:41 am

My mom had a normal pregnancy and took no medications.

Autism runs in my family. 4 of us, that I know of, are diagnosed, and I suspect others have it.

My mom, my son, and my nephew are all diagnosed.


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21 Jul 2022, 10:09 am

Weird circumstances in this thread ….. So my concepts of Astrology , is merely coincidental to my life .
But when some some things like the tides of the Ocean rising , Under Lunar influence . And the observation
Of how subtle that influence is to the entirety of the Ocean. Have to wonder what other Subtlies Planetery
influences might generate with their far off Magnetic fields.. then the old adage about so much if the earths surface being covered in water .And onto humans being 75% water , I have read . Does give me pause to think on these things . :scratch:


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Fnord
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21 Jul 2022, 11:34 am

Jakki wrote:
Weird circumstances in this thread ….. So my concepts of Astrology , is merely coincidental to my life .
But when some some things like the tides of the Ocean rising , Under Lunar influence . And the observation
Of how subtle that influence is to the entirety of the Ocean. Have to wonder what other Subtlies Planetary
influences might generate with their far off Magnetic fields.. then the old adage about so much if the earths surface being covered in water .And onto humans being 75% water , I have read . Does give me pause to think on these things . :scratch:
Tides change under the influence of gravity which is one of the only proven four natural forces in the universe -- electro-magnetic (EM), gravitic, strong, and weak forces.  Only the EM and gravitic forces are apparent to our senses.  The other two work only at the nuclear and sub-nuclear levels, and are extremely short-ranged (like, the distance between two neutrons).

Of EM and gravity, EM is the stronger of the two by a factor of about 10^42 (the number 10 followed by 42 zeros), for without the EM force, Earth and everything on it would collapse into a singularity.

Both EM and gravity are affected by the same inverse-square law, which states that a spherical force will decrease in strength by a factor of 1/d^2 -- the reciprocal of the square of the distance travelled.  Thus, a 1G force 6000km from its source would be only 0.25G at 12000km from its source.

Now imagine the same force originating from only 41,343,392,165,178.096 kilometers away* (do the maths), and you will immediately understand why any force from even the nearest star outside our solar system has far less effect on Earth's inhabitants than the planet under our own two feet.

If there is truly another force that enables the positions of far-off planets and stars to influence our fates (and cause autism), science has yet to discover it -- just believing it exists does not make it so.

(*This is the distance from our solar system to the AB Centauri system, 4.37 light-years away)



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21 Jul 2022, 12:32 pm

Okay, I did the maths myself.  The force of gravity from an Earth-like world 4.37 light-years away is about 2.1^-20 times 1G, or about 0.000,000,000,000,000,000,002,11G at the surface of the Earth.  That's 2.11 sextillionth of 1G.  The magnitude of an imaginary force from the same distance would simply be zero.

Even the obstetrician who delivers the child turns out to have about six times the gravitational pull of Mars and about two thousand billion times its tidal force. The doctor may have a lot less mass than the "Red Planet", but he or she is a lot closer to the baby!



TwilightPrincess
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21 Jul 2022, 2:08 pm

Noamx wrote:
And generally, people who think Astrology is s**t / dont believe in it, are not worth my time or effort, because no matter how much I would try to explain things they wouldnt understand / agree with it. Same with religion, you wouldnt try to explain something religious to someone who isnt religious, right? They wouldnt care about what you have to say. Same idea here.


Religion is built on faith.

Science is built on evidence.

You can’t make a scientific claim and rely on faith or beliefs. You need to provide evidence if you want to be taken seriously.

(I just wanted to put this out there. Combining faith and/or unfounded beliefs with supposed science is a recipe for quackery.)


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21 Jul 2022, 5:51 pm

the planets/stars/nodes et al do NOT have a direct physical influence on earthlings. they merely are heavenly signposts up ahead suggesting the existence of a subtle universal schedule of energy that so far nobody this side of the twilight zone has been able to limn.