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ulrichburke
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02 Nov 2022, 10:04 am

Yeah, you're right - but you'd've thought, in 40 years of adulthood, I could've managed being with a group for - I dunno - a day once!?!

Never even managed once, not even in Colleges full of disabled people! Watch all the others going by my window in the evenings and wish I knew what it was like to be part of it all.

Never will, will I.

Yours a little sorrowfully

Chris.



klanka
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02 Nov 2022, 10:49 am

I watched that tortured lives documentary. I dont even think you look that bad. I expected you to have open sores on your face instead of a nose, something horrific like that.

What do you think of the church idea?



Muse933277
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02 Nov 2022, 11:00 am

From my experience, in social groups, it's possible for you to be the odd one out.

The "odd one out" is typically the person who is noticeably different from the others in the group, whether it's appearance or personality. For example, a white christian 40 year old well-dressed college professor, is going to feel like the odd one out, in a group of black gangsters who are all in their early twenties. A 30 year old man is going to feel like the odd one out, in a group of 18-21 sorority girls, and an english-only speaker is definitely going to feel like the odd one out in a group of spanish speakers.

The more that a group tends to have a specific kind of people, the more likely that someone who is noticeably different from this common denominator will be excluded from future gatherings or even be ostracized. In this case, the person who is the odd one out might have problems with fitting in with the group. However groups that are more open and diverse in terms of appearance and personality, are less likely to exclude certain people since these groups have a wide range of different kinds of people, hence someone is less likely to stand out.



Last edited by Muse933277 on 02 Nov 2022, 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

DanielW
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02 Nov 2022, 11:14 am

Its challenging just being single, let alone on the spectrum. Most of the people around my age are married and tend only to socialize with other couples. When I do get the rare invitation, I end up being the "third wheel".



ulrichburke
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02 Nov 2022, 1:34 pm

klanka wrote:
I watched that tortured lives documentary. I dont even think you look that bad. I expected you to have open sores on your face instead of a nose, something horrific like that.

What do you think of the church idea?


Dear Klanka.

I don't think I look that bad, it's all the neurotypicals who disagree - and they tend to be in the majority - and thanks for watching the documentary, by the way!

I'd like the idea of Church more if God actually didn't mind me being there - checkout Leviticus, right after the long bit where it describes how to prepare His burned offerings (which we don't seem to do any more, even though it's His word we should do!) Jesus doesn't like disabled people much either but He's more subtle about it - if you're born disabled it's 'The Sins of the father visited upon the son...' When He cured someone of a disability, He always said He was curing them 'of their sins', so He equated disability with sin. I mean, 'ave a look at this, which is a direct quote from Leviticus....

"And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 'Speak to Aaron, saying, None of your offspring throughout their generations who has a blemish may approach to offer the bread of his God. For no one who has a blemish shall draw near, a man blind or lame, or one who has a mutilated face or a limb too long, or a man who has an injured foot or an injured hand, or a hunchback or a dwarf or a man with a defect in his sight or an itching disease or scabs or crushed testicles. No man of the offspring of Aaron the priest who has a blemish shall come near to offer the Lord's food offerings; since he has a blemish, he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God. He … shall not go through the veil or approach the altar, because he has a blemish, that he may not profane my sanctuaries, for I am the Lord who sanctifies them."

So as I'm disabled, I'm not even supposed to GO to Church. If I do, I'm breaking His word! So I don't, because I DO believe in the Bible - I DON'T believe you can cherrypick the bits you believe, either you believe in all of it or none of it. As it's ALL the Word of God, I've got to obey Leviticus (amongst other parts) and that means I can't go to Church. Most of these preachers even get the basic story wrong - I heard about 'the fiery pits of Hell' for ages before I actually read the Bible - and nope - there are none. Who's got the keys to Hell? Jesus, not the Devil, it says that in Revelations. You know where Hell is? Right here, it's called Planet Earth. How do I know this? When Azrael fell from Heaven, he fell to Earth. Now Azrael rules in Hell, it says so in the Bible. As he fell to Earth, Earth IS Hell. As in literally. So to escape from Hell to Heaven, you have to follow Jesus' path. BUT....

It says frequently that only 144,000 will go to Heaven. Now there's 12 Tribes of Israel. So that's 12,000 from each Tribe. So unless you're Israeli, you're kinda stuffed before you start! The rest of us? Ashes to Ashes.....

There's a lot more to it than that, all stated in the Bible, but that's the gist of it. If you want a bit of fun reading about Jesus, checkout the bit in Revelations where He chucks the Seven Bowls at us, the second of which empties the oceans of life....

I love the Bible. Fave book? Song of Solomon, King James Version. Did you know Shakespear helped translate it? He was 49 when he did that. Checkout Psalm 49. 49 words down from the top - Shake. 49 words up from the bottom - Spear! He left his name behind. Always thought that was clever! I think Revelations would make a GREAT movie!

Thanks again for seeing Tormented Lives!

Yours respectfully

Chris.



klanka
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02 Nov 2022, 3:13 pm

It does say that in the law of Moses about those with blemishes. But in Galatians 3 it says there is now a curse for those who try to follow the law (of Moses). So its saying don't even try to follow it.
So that's why we dont follow it anymore and why we can eat pork etc.

The 144,000 are those who learn the new song. It also says in the same chapter of Revelation that there will be great multitudes in heaven that no-one can count.

I'll have to check out the shakespeare thing.

The thing about a Priest not being able to have a blemish was enforced in real life back then, but it is also a poetic thing hinting that Jesus will be without spot or blemish when he fulfills the law for us.



ulrichburke
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02 Nov 2022, 11:08 pm

Dear Klanka.

I'd missed out the Galatians bit about not following the Law of Moses, I'd just read the Law of Moses and God Himself saying the same thing in Leviticus. If we're not to follow the Law of Moses, doesn't that mean we're not following what God Himself said in Leviticus? How about Jesus always referring to 'sin' and 'disability' in the same breath - whenever He cures anyone of disability, He's curing them 'of their sins'?

I know the Great Multitudes bit - but considering there's only 144,000 humans, I thought it referred to Jesus' 'In my Father's house there are many mansions....' quote which I always took to mean as God created the Cosmos, He created many planets with life on, those being the 'mansions' in the quote. So the rest of the 'great multitudes' would be coming from all the other 'mansions', no?

Another bit of the Bible that always fascinated me was Genesis, cos it's ACTUALLY true - but in a deliberately oversimplified way, as though Someone was trying to say it in a way those he was talking to would understand it. You prob. know this, but all the continents - if you allow for erosion and add a few broken-off islands - can be fitted together into one original supercontinent called Gondwanaland (that's one of its names.) So if you think of 'Gondwanaland' as 'The Garden of Eden' and Adam and Eve as purposely-simplified reps. of the tribes there, you've got an Original Supercontinent Garden filled with tribes that got on well together. Can't remember the exact quote offhand - sorry - but the 'Go Forth and Fill the Earth' bit is actually correct - Gondwanaland DID break up into continents and fill the Earth - over the millennia. And of course it was the original Crucible of Life, where everything developed - things changed to fit different environments AFTER Gondwanaland had broken into continents/islands but of course all life would have started in Gondwanaland itself.

So the whole story basically fits in with science - though try telling the scientists that! - rather well. But it always sounds to me like someone turning it into a fable for the locals to understand - and for that Someone to KNOW it, they'd either have had to have watched it from Space - if you film light that's coming towards you, you get a timelapse of all the images held IN the light, so you can collapse ages into hours/minutes like stop-frame - or been incredibly long-lived - or been part of the Creation process and wanted the process to be remembered by those who wouldn't understand the mechanisms involved.

As far as the Law of Moses goes, I'll admit I'd missed that bit of Galatians - not claiming Total Expertise, it's just I've read loads of the KJV because I loved its poetry - but God Himself says it in Leviticus, so we're not just not-obeying Moses' law, we're not-obeying God's Actual Word, aren't we?

Yours respectfully,

Confused dot com. Er - Chris!



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03 Nov 2022, 6:26 am

It is confusing because in the old testament it says the law is eternal and good....but then everything gets reversed later. I think it's because Jesus is in the old testament in subtle ways, so when he fulfilled the law you can still say its good...but the sacrifice atones for everything.

I admit it is very confusing though.

So in the new testament it says faith leads you to be saved. So faith could be one way of following the law, instead of trying to do it yourself.

Im not sure of the timeframes and everything. We dont know how long adam & eve spent in the garden of eden i suppose..before the serpent turned up.


In the book of acts they bring the gospel to the non-jews, so if it were only the 144,000 Jewish humans to be saved, Paul going to Greece would be pointless.

I dont really believe in aliens at all, so I just take the mansions quote literally.

There is someone who Jesus cures who he says was disabled simply so he could be healed, but another person it seems was disabled because of his sins so both reasons are there.

The Law of Moses is the same thing as God's law, it's just a nickname because Moses brought it to the people.

I can understand you coming to those conclusions if you only read part of the bible, considering the old testament is worded strongly.



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03 Nov 2022, 7:45 am

I'm the opposite. I never invite other people out anywhere. It's a good thing people (occasionally) invite me out because I'm too nervous to spontaneously invite them out. I never initiate anything.


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03 Nov 2022, 7:48 am

Meetup dot com



ulrichburke
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03 Nov 2022, 8:44 am

Dear Klanka.

I'm NOT trying to be clever or anything with this question because you obviously know more than I do - I just read the KJV because I loved the poetic flow of the writing (and the messages and everything - but I don't get the same 'kick' from - say - the New World version or whatever it's called!)

But - and here's the bit that sounds like I'm trying to be clever when I'm not - you said just now that Moses' law was the same as God's law. And in your previous letter you said it says in Galatians - I haven't checked the quote out in the online Bible yet, so excuse me if I'm wrong - that we're not to obey Moses' law. As Moses' law is God's law, that sounds like Galatians is saying we're not to obey God's law.... where've I gone wrong?

By the way - in Peter, round about chapter 3 from memory, it says one day to God is 1,000 years to a human, so we can work out the timescale from that, no?

Yours trying-to-learn-edly,

Chris.



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03 Nov 2022, 9:36 am

Yeah I see what you mean. God's law was made impossible to follow perfectly, so we've all broken it in some way. Only Jesus was able to follow it perfectly.
In revelation Jesus says the unbelieving , liars, sexually immoral,cowards and murderers are not saved. So all of the priestly laws are done away with.
I think unbelieving is obvious, but in regards to the other things he says ,I think he means unrepentant liars for example. Plenty of murderers will be in heaven for example, but I assume Jesus means an unrepentant murderer. Someone who practises it.

So all of the ceremonial priestly laws like 'priests aren't allowed to be disabled' that's definitely gone as a law.
In Galatians 3 it uses circumcision as the example. It comes down harshly against circumcision even though that is in God's eternal perfect law ;)
So in the Bible there are Jewish Christians who were trying to say Christians have to be circumcised because it is confusing:)

But Paul, (a church authority) says circumcision is of no profit to a Christian.



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03 Nov 2022, 12:56 pm

klanka wrote:
Yeah I see what you mean. God's law was made impossible to follow perfectly, so we've all broken it in some way. Only Jesus was able to follow it perfectly.
In revelation Jesus says the unbelieving , liars, sexually immoral,cowards and murderers are not saved. So all of the priestly laws are done away with.
I think unbelieving is obvious, but in regards to the other things he says ,I think he means unrepentant liars for example. Plenty of murderers will be in heaven for example, but I assume Jesus means an unrepentant murderer. Someone who practises it.

So all of the ceremonial priestly laws like 'priests aren't allowed to be disabled' that's definitely gone as a law.
In Galatians 3 it uses circumcision as the example. It comes down harshly against circumcision even though that is in God's eternal perfect law ;)
So in the Bible there are Jewish Christians who were trying to say Christians have to be circumcised because it is confusing:)

But Paul, (a church authority) says circumcision is of no profit to a Christian.

Yeah isn't circumcision more symbolic than literal since Jesus can to fulfill the law?



klanka
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03 Nov 2022, 1:47 pm

Yeah, so not going to church because of a disability is the same thing.

It's confusing because the same Law of Moses contains the ten commandments, don't kill,don't steal etc.



ulrichburke
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03 Nov 2022, 8:02 pm

Dear Klanka.

So as we're not supposed to obey the Law of Moses, we're not supposed to obey the Ten Commandments? They seem a good set of rules to live by, thou shalt not kill and everything, didn't Jesus agree with those either?

The other thing I've never understood - though it makes great reading - about Jesus is when He comes back in Revelations. I mean He's the leader of the Four Horsemen, then He chucks the Seven Bowls at us, the second of which empties the seas of Life. I agree that as He helped instigate Life here He's got the right to take it away again but even so, it seems a tad extreme for someone who's supposed to love us all? The whole Seven Bowls thing seems a tad extreme TBH - but wouldn't it make a wonderful movie, along with the rest of Revelations!?!

Why do you think He leads the Four Horsemen AND does the Seven Bowls (It's amazing how long Seven's been a magical number, isn't it! That and three.) And why do all these preachers keep going on about the Devil ruling in a place full of fire and brimstone when it says in Revelations JESUS has the keys to Heaven and Hell - which to me bears out my thought that as Azrael fell to Earth, Earth is, literally, Hell! The only mention of fire and brimstone I know about - you're welcome to differ - is that the area of Heaven Azrael lived in was volcanic. According to Revelations, Heaven and Hell are the same place - so I don't understand where the preachers get their version of Hell from.

And I'm sorry, I got the psalm wrong, it's 46. Here's the quotes.

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains SHAKE with the swelling thereof....


9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the SPEAR in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.

My capitals, couldn't make 'em bold here. But the words are in the right places. Thought that was clever of him!

Yours respectfully

Chris.



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04 Nov 2022, 10:25 am

ulrichburke wrote:
Dear Klanka.

So as we're not supposed to obey the Law of Moses, we're not supposed to obey the Ten Commandments? They seem a good set of rules to live by, thou shalt not kill and everything, didn't Jesus agree with those either?

The other thing I've never understood - though it makes great reading - about Jesus is when He comes back in Revelations. I mean He's the leader of the Four Horsemen, then He chucks the Seven Bowls at us, the second of which empties the seas of Life. I agree that as He helped instigate Life here He's got the right to take it away again but even so, it seems a tad extreme for someone who's supposed to love us all? The whole Seven Bowls thing seems a tad extreme TBH - but wouldn't it make a wonderful movie, along with the rest of Revelations!?!

Why do you think He leads the Four Horsemen AND does the Seven Bowls (It's amazing how long Seven's been a magical number, isn't it! That and three.) And why do all these preachers keep going on about the Devil ruling in a place full of fire and brimstone when it says in Revelations JESUS has the keys to Heaven and Hell - which to me bears out my thought that as Azrael fell to Earth, Earth is, literally, Hell! The only mention of fire and brimstone I know about - you're welcome to differ - is that the area of Heaven Azrael lived in was volcanic. According to Revelations, Heaven and Hell are the same place - so I don't understand where the preachers get their version of Hell from.

And I'm sorry, I got the psalm wrong, it's 46. Here's the quotes.

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains SHAKE with the swelling thereof....


9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the SPEAR in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.

My capitals, couldn't make 'em bold here. But the words are in the right places. Thought that was clever of him!

Yours respectfully

Chris.

Hi, Chris!
(This is not an attack on non-christians on here) The seven seals in revelations is said to be judgement on those who did not follow Christ. By this time, I believe, its referring to a period after Jesus returns and raptures the church away. So as far as Him "leading" the four horsemen, they serve a purpose in judgement but they are Antichrist in nature.
And He said He prepared hell for the devil and his fallen angels so it was not originally meant for people. You're right, Revelations would make a great movie.