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Gammeldans
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10 Dec 2022, 10:09 am

I hear a lot of people talking about how bad we can be at doing chores like cleaning.
My understanding is that cleaning is a very physical thing. Do ASD sometimes make people bad at doing physical things like cleaning?
What part of the physical chores are difficult?
I haven't read much about the difficulties with the physical part of it but I am sure they are there. The difficulties cannot only be about planning and organizing.
Perhaps we have vefy little energy for physical work? No athletes with ASD then, I guess.

Personally I find that I disslike saying that cleaning is boring. We are supposef to in iur cultures but I think one can make it interesting.
But even if I succeed with that I have to deal with the physical part of it.
It does take energy to do physical chores but I don't see how people with ASD would have more difficult with it. I know that ASD can affect motir skills but I am not sure that has much to do with cleaning. Perhaps it does as one must use motor skills when cleaning.



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10 Dec 2022, 11:41 am

My issue with cleaning is that I never have a sense of completion or success - things are either clean, or not clean. Therefore, no matter how hard I work, the house is never clean.

It’s better if I break it down - “the kitchen table is clean.” Or “the entryway floor is clean” But then Dh eats lunch or wears his shoes into the house and I want to scream. Better to ignore it.



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10 Dec 2022, 11:44 am

I think having routines and schedules helps, even with physical things.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Dec 2022, 1:45 pm

I’m pretty poor at cleaning. I don’t like spending much time at it. I don’t have really high standards. As long as the dishes are done, and the garbage is taken out.

I don’t know if it’s autism, or pure laziness. I’m inclined to think it’s the latter.



FleaOfTheChill
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10 Dec 2022, 2:06 pm

I like a clean house. I don't like it so spotless I feel like I can't sit, relax, and enjoy it. I prefer tidy, not dirty, so on. That's comfortable to me and I can't relax in a messy house. That drives me insane. :lol: I don't mind cleaning, so long as I'm in an okay headspace. I rather like knowing that I've done something to tend to my environment. Plus there's something weirdly satisfying about checking things off a to-do list. For me anyhow.

I would have guessed the issues with cleaning to be less a physical thing and more of an executive functioning thing and a need for perfection/absolutes (which will never happen with cleaning). I know I struggle with the executive functioning side of it when I'm stressed or busy. That's my biggest and maybe only issue with cleaning, when I have problems doing it. My brain just shuts down sometimes and it seems so big, so overwhelming, so many steps that I can't put together, and I just can't do it. Brain says, nope.



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10 Dec 2022, 4:16 pm

My detail-oriented perception turns cleaning chores into a seemingly endless session of Shaving the Yak.

Quote:
But what is yak shaving?
Yak shaving refers to a task, that leads you to perform another related task and so on, and so on — all distracting you from your original goal. This is sometimes called “going down the rabbit hole.”

Let’s look at this real-world example.

You want to bake an apple pie, so you head to the kitchen.

In the hallway, you notice some paint chipping on the wall.

So you walk to the hardware store for some paint.

On the way, you pass a bakery and stop in for a cupcake.

While eating the cupcake, you feel a pain in your mouth. It’s that cavity that you’ve been putting off.

You pick up your phone to call the dentist to make an appointment, but you see a notification from your friend Cher, who’s having a party.

You don’t want to show up empty-handed, so you stop for a bottle of wine. …

You get the picture. What ever happened to that apple pie?
(Source:  A Short Lesson on Yak Shaving )

So, I need to clean the refrigerator.

But I need to buy cleaning supplies.

But I need to get money from the ATM.

But I need to wear a jacket.

But the cat left a deposit on my jacket, so I have to do the laundry.

But the hose connection to the washer is leaking.

But . . .

Get the picture?


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ToughDiamond
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10 Dec 2022, 7:06 pm

With me I think it's mostly that chores are too mundane and "easy," so they bore me, and I hate boredom. It seems my brain has to have a certain level of challenge. So I spend a lot of my chore time trying to figure out quicker ways of doing the chores, and I'm certainly not content to just do them like an ordinary person would. I don't mind "chores" that require a degree of skill and thought about them.

The physical issue doesn't much affect me, though some chores seem to require me to contort my body into uncomfortable positions, like weeding a garden needs a lot of time stooping and crouching.

There's also that perfectionist / completist thing going on. Sometimes I've thought about cleaning and tidying my entire house, but the work required would be too much. I'm easily daunted by thoughts of being chained to days of menial work. I'd much rather just do a micro-chore such as cleaning up a worktop. If I tackle a larger area I often find myself trying to do it to a ridiculously high standard, and once I've started I can't seem to stop, even if I never wanted to start in the first place, so I'm doubly reluctant to start because I fear I'll spend more time than I can afford to on it.

I like low-maintenance arrangements. I'm still trying to decide whether keeping things in closed boxes is worth it - I preferred open shelves for years, for ease of access, but my stuff collected dust. Quite the dilemma. I try not to get things dirty and disorganised in the first place, and if I live with anybody who makes a mess, then as far as I'm concerned they can clean it themselves. I also have an extreme respect for other people's stuff, so I'm often reluctant to tidy up a shared area if they've left stuff around, because I don't like it when my stuff isn't where I left it because somebody's tidied it away. One man's mess is another man's organisation.

I wish I could let go of the notion that things have to look tidy. As long as everything is efficiently retrievable and stored securely, as long as I'm not tripping over my own stuff, as long as I'm not at risk of catching a disease from filth, it shouldn't matter what it looks like. But for some stupid reason I don't like myself for letting things look untidy. I'm sure I was never that way when I was a kid.



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11 Dec 2022, 6:58 am

Cleaning up after an earthquake or tornado is a "very physical thing." Cleaning up after a meal or a bath is not. To stay fit on housework, you'd have to be doing 12 hours of work in 8 most days.
There was a guy who was so bored that he kept up his New Year's resolution to go to the gym, even though he wasn't seeing any change. Then, when spring arrived, he had to cut the grass. It had always taken him two hours and left him exhausted. That spring, it took 45 minutes, and he had energy to spare.
I grew up thinking that I should be smart enough to use machines to do everything. I was never fit until I discovered that a bicycle was the best machine for my needs, and that changed my life.



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11 Dec 2022, 7:05 am

I posted to this thread several days ago . :( . And it apparently did not take.. too tired to rewrite it tonight .
Originally was the second person to post here ???


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Gammeldans
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12 Dec 2022, 12:43 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
With me I think it's mostly that chores are too mundane and "easy," so they bore me, and I hate boredom. It seems my brain has to have a certain level of challenge. So I spend a lot of my chore time trying to figure out quicker ways of doing the chores, and I'm certainly not content to just do them like an ordinary person would. I don't mind "chores" that require a degree of skill and thought about them.

The physical issue doesn't much affect me, though some chores seem to require me to contort my body into uncomfortable positions, like weeding a garden needs a lot of time stooping and crouching.


I alsomloke to figure out better ways to do the chores.
Today I baked an apple pie and I was dissapointed that it took so long.
I knew I could not change the thing about the oven. It is what it is. But I could change something which has to so with sequencing.
I might actually have ro change my process a bit.
With cleaning I focus a lot on sequencing, ie in what order I should do things.

I really like what you wrote about uncomfortable positions when cleaning. This is something that I experience when cleaning the toilet. That's kind of the worst thing about cleaning.
The thing about physical activities and ASD is probably this: many people with ASD seem to have less energy to do chores.
Some probably have difficulties with cleaning due to poor gross motor skills.



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12 Dec 2022, 1:15 pm

If cleaning positions are awkward, it means I have not been stretching enough, and should be glad for the timely notice.
In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, the most on-topic passage is about the morning of a valve adjustment. He treats it as a ritual, and the precision tools as sacred. He stays alert for any other things to check, and recalls the history of the abnormalities.
It does help to practice a meditation that can be combined with activity, so you can just park excess attention there when needed.
Usually, if a job is boring, I spend a lot of time thinking up ways to mechanize it, or just tinker with my technique to speed things up. An early efficiency expert went to the World's Fair, where a bicycle manufacturer had set up their fastest wheel builder to show off. After studying her setup for a few wheels, he asked if he might rearrange her supplies. Soon, she was going 10% faster.
Much later, another efficiency expert was starting a one-day class for some foremen. He started off by warning them that these were powerful, industrial techniques that should not be used at home. He had asked his wife why she made a separate trip to the refrigerator for every ingredient in their breakfast. It used to take her 15 minutes to make. Now, he does it in seven.



ToughDiamond
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12 Dec 2022, 2:03 pm

Dear_one wrote:
If cleaning positions are awkward, it means I have not been stretching enough, and should be glad for the timely notice.

Some truth in that, for many tasks. But with weeding a garden the problem isn't about being unable to crouch down and get on with it, it's about what happens after I've been in that position too long - when I try to stand up again, I can't straighten up. One fix is to keep taking breaks. But my preferred solutions are about avoiding the need for crouch-weeding at all.



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12 Dec 2022, 2:53 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
Dear_one wrote:
If cleaning positions are awkward, it means I have not been stretching enough, and should be glad for the timely notice.

Some truth in that, for many tasks. But with weeding a garden the problem isn't about being unable to crouch down and get on with it, it's about what happens after I've been in that position too long - when I try to stand up again, I can't straighten up. One fix is to keep taking breaks. But my preferred solutions are about avoiding the need for crouch-weeding at all.

Mine would be to tie wooden lath of the right thickness to my ankles and shoulders, so I could walk normally, but when I bend over, it bends over my butt to hold my shoulders up. One can also use multiple positions, with one or two knees on the ground, and a hand on knee or ground at times. Or, just build a robot weeder.



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12 Dec 2022, 8:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
My detail-oriented perception turns cleaning chores into a seemingly endless session of Shaving the Yak.
Quote:
But what is yak shaving?
Yak shaving refers to a task, that leads you to perform another related task and so on, and so on — all distracting you from your original goal. This is sometimes called “going down the rabbit hole.”

Let’s look at this real-world example.

You want to bake an apple pie, so you head to the kitchen.

In the hallway, you notice some paint chipping on the wall.

So you walk to the hardware store for some paint.

On the way, you pass a bakery and stop in for a cupcake.

While eating the cupcake, you feel a pain in your mouth. It’s that cavity that you’ve been putting off.

You pick up your phone to call the dentist to make an appointment, but you see a notification from your friend Cher, who’s having a party.

You don’t want to show up empty-handed, so you stop for a bottle of wine. …

You get the picture. What ever happened to that apple pie?
(Source:
 A Short Lesson on Yak Shaving )

So, I need to clean the refrigerator.

But I need to buy cleaning supplies.

But I need to get money from the ATM.

But I need to wear a jacket.

But the cat left a deposit on my jacket, so I have to do the laundry.

But the hose connection to the washer is leaking.

But . . .

Get the picture?


This is quite a poignant observation of real problem facing Autists, I think. imho


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MuddRM
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12 Dec 2022, 10:09 pm

Jakki wrote:
Fnord wrote:
My detail-oriented perception turns cleaning chores into a seemingly endless session of Shaving the Yak.
Quote:
But what is yak shaving?
Yak shaving refers to a task, that leads you to perform another related task and so on, and so on — all distracting you from your original goal. This is sometimes called “going down the rabbit hole.”

Let’s look at this real-world example.

You want to bake an apple pie, so you head to the kitchen.

In the hallway, you notice some paint chipping on the wall.

So you walk to the hardware store for some paint.

On the way, you pass a bakery and stop in for a cupcake.

While eating the cupcake, you feel a pain in your mouth. It’s that cavity that you’ve been putting off.

You pick up your phone to call the dentist to make an appointment, but you see a notification from your friend Cher, who’s having a party.

You don’t want to show up empty-handed, so you stop for a bottle of wine. …

You get the picture. What ever happened to that apple pie?
(Source:
 A Short Lesson on Yak Shaving )

So, I need to clean the refrigerator.

But I need to buy cleaning supplies.

But I need to get money from the ATM.

But I need to wear a jacket.

But the cat left a deposit on my jacket, so I have to do the laundry.

But the hose connection to the washer is leaking.

But . . .

Get the picture?


This is quite a poignant observation of real problem facing Autists, I think. imho


I’m currently going through another bout of depression. It wouldn’t take much for management to kick my fat ass out of here for not keeping this place perfectly spotless.



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12 Dec 2022, 10:53 pm

The Yak-shaving song: https://genius.com/Harry-belafonte-a-ho ... ket-lyrics

Circular dependencies are even worse than distractions.

After my epic move here, I pretty much sat in shock among my boxes, but there was also a stack of rough lumber. After two weeks, I located my saw and power screwdriver, and made the lumber into bookshelves between and above the windows on one wall. Then the book boxes got unpacked, and there was room to move. In another week, things were fairly well squared away.
Sometimes, a clean-up has to start with just clearing a space by stacking things from it double-deep nearby, to get room to do better sorting in. This has the great advantage of reducing the work to comprehensible chunks.