Page 2 of 2 [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

klanka
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2022
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,888
Location: Cardiff, Wales

22 Mar 2023, 2:55 pm

Thanks,
because I'm not getting any treatment for mine I just have to hope it goes away. As now I'm not stressed.

I've been recovering for only five months so I guess that's not enough yet.

I had an aversion to touching dirty dish water.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 67,988
Location: Chez Quis

22 Mar 2023, 3:31 pm

There is no treatment for burnout, especially when the sensory nervous system is fried like mine and skibum's and some other members'. Our sensory system didn't develop right in the first place, so with age and repeat overwhelm it's completely debilitating. The best we can do is to avoid sensory stimuli which, for the most part, means avoiding life. Unfortunately most societies and institutions don't let people avoid life. It's sad that places which are designed to help us, like OT therapy centres, aren't even accessible because they fill the places with primary-coloured bouncy balls and put cartoons all over the walls for children, not to mention they usually have bright lights and lots of noise.

I've been in burnout for decades but only pushed through it because I had no choice as a single parent. I didn't mask because I've never known how. I spent my whole in autistic distress and making a fool of myself socially. Masking might have come as a relief, if I'd known how. I think it's the same for skibum.



Double Retired
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2020
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,143
Location: U.S.A.         (Mid-Atlantic)

22 Mar 2023, 4:32 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
I have a question, it's a little bit off topic.
(My executive functioning is passable so I can't personally relate very well).
But my 21 year old aspie son is having huge issues with procrastination and not doing the things he is supposed to be doing. This ranges from washing up the dishes (says he will when asked but never does it - repeatedly for days at a time until I lose my temper and yell and he ends up crying), and not doing his assigned coursework (repeatedly, until he gets a fail and is thrown off the course). It's way beyond normal teenage procrastination, it's causing major headaches, like him not being able to get qualifications.
So I was wondering if this sounds like an AS executive function problem? Or something else?
Just hoping for the thoughts of those with EF issues.
If forgetfulness (as Edna3362 asked)...I find visual cues help me to remember to do something. For instance:

► I take all my pills in the morning (I'm old). Where the bottles are tells me if I've taken them, yet. One location for Need-to-take and a different location for Already-took.

► I have a small notepad and write myself reminder notes. Only when I've completed the necessary task do I get rid of the reminder note.

► I suppose a whiteboard To-Do list could also work.


_________________
When diagnosed I bought champagne!
I finally knew why people were strange.


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,244
Location: Long Island, New York

22 Mar 2023, 10:52 pm

Task Initiation, Executive Functioning, and Autistic Inertia

Quote:
Task Initiation
Task initiation is exactly what it sounds like. It’s the ability to actually start a new task, which could be anything from as complex as starting a new large project to a simple as getting out of bed or getting dressed. This is a major challenge for me and many other autistic people, and it can make productivity a challenge. Sometimes I just cannot get myself to the point of of starting something, even if it’s something I actually want to be doing or need to be doing. Many autistic people who have this trouble are mistakenly thought to simply be lazy or unmotivated, but this isn’t the case. It actually is a cognitive block that makes task initiation difficult, one that has to do with executive functioning, but we’ll get to that in a bit.

Some autistic people also have trouble switching between tasks, sometimes for similar reasons. And/or some autistic people tend to want to stay in a constant state without change, something that has been dubbed “autistic inertia,” and well also get to that in a bit.

Executive Functioning
If you or someone you know is autistic, executive functioning is a phrase you should know. Executive functions are a broad group of cognitive skills that include things like impulse control, working memory, task prioritization, planning, and yes, task initiation. Autistic people very often have difficulty in areas of executive functioning. My anecdotal observation suggests that many autistic adults rate difficulties with executive functioning as the most difficult thing about being autistic (with living in a sensory unfriendly world coming in at a close second).

Autistic Inertia
To understand what “autistic inertia” is, let’s define actual inertia. In physics, inertia is simply the tendency that objects have to either continue moving (if they are already moving) or continue staying still. An object in motion stays in motion, an object at rest stays at rest, unless acted upon by an outside force. Hypothetically, if you were to push an object in a perfect vacuum without gravity and with nothing to slow it down, that object would continue to move forever in the same direction. Similarly, a still object will never move unless acted upon by an outside force.

So if that’s inertia, then what is “autistic inertia?” Well, autistic inertia is the tendency that autistic people have to want to remain in a constant state. When we’re asleep we want to stay asleep, when awake we want to stay awake, when we’re working on one thing we want to keep working on it, when we’re doing one thing we want to keep doing that one thing, etc. Now, yes, this tendency exists in everybody but you must understand that this is often significantly more pronounced in autistic people. This can also (at least in part) be due to executive functioning struggles. (There are many other reasons why autistic people may have trouble switching tasks, but here we’ll only focus on executive functioning).

Accommodations
So, now that we’ve gone over a potential reason why many autistic people may have trouble switching tasks, let’s go over some things that I have found helpful or I have heard other people have found helpful when it comes to task switching/initiation.

The first important thing to remember is that executive functioning struggles absolutely do not represent laziness. I know that if you yourself don’t experience executive functioning difficulties you might think this is all quite strange, because it “should be easy” because all you have to do is just “do the thing.” However, difficulties with task initiation actually are a product of a very real cognitive “block” and very often can get in the way of our actual intentions.

Perhaps the most basic and useful accommodation that can be sought is prompting. Prompting is exactly what it sounds like: giving a prompt in some form as a way of helping someone to move onto another task. This could be anything from a written chart to verbal prompting, and can even be done independently by, say, setting an alarm on your phone at specific times. Sometimes a prompt is enough to push us out of the rut and moving onto another task. Sometimes it could take multiple prompts, but I say that with the warning that this could quickly become overwhelming, particularly in people who have the Persistent-Demand-Avoidance autism subtype, but that’s a discussion for another day.

It also may be useful to have a specific support person who can help ground you in a new task. It’s helpful to me sometimes to have my mom sit down next to me when I’m starting something new because she can help my brain get switched over so I can actually initiate something new.

Another accommodation that helps many with task switching are visual timers, which is literally just a timer that visually displays how much time is left on it. You can find them online for fairly cheap. These help ease the transition more and make it easier to make said transition. Developing and sticking to a routine can also help with such transitions, for similar reasons in that it makes it easier to be cognitively prepared and “ready” for the switch, if that makes any sense. And not only can these things be useful for help with executive functioning, but also potentially relieving anxiety.

Lastly, and this is always important, just be patient and if there’s an autistic person in your life who has trouble with this know that it’s probably just as frustrating for them as it may be for you. And if you yourself are autistic and struggle with this, know that you certainly aren’t alone and don’t be afraid to experiment and try new things to help yourself with task initiation and switching.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


SharonB
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,733

24 Mar 2023, 4:16 pm

Yep. Ridiculous. A few recent headlines about women, ASD, ADHD and loss of life (as my family has had) - but not what to do about it. My son is highly intelligent, masking his high sensitivity and GAD at school (-I think he is ADHD not ASD-) I am really really worried about him. How and when does functional cross into non-functional and we all know that environmental factors and support or lack thereof play a HUGE part -and it can happen suddenly and severely. Just yesterday I was talking about a time in my youth when I handled (barely) situations myself and now I like to think I could have asked for help and then of course it occurred to me today... could I have and why didn't anybody offer help? :cry: A balance at least would be nice.

I have an invisible disability, actually not so invisible many times and yet willfully invisible on society's part. :|

I imagine asking for what I need, unapologetically. You know, if I were to leave the house, interact with someone and not have my proverbial knees buckle under me and collapse in a heap of tears. LOL-cry.



MrsPeel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2017
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,744
Location: Australia

25 Mar 2023, 1:13 am

Edna3362 wrote:
Depends.

Was it preferences or perceived value on the task?
Was it personality?
Was it basically just moodiness? Boring, too 'obligating', too annoying...
Was it forgetfulness? It can range from apathy, exhaustion, hyperfocus to something else like hormones.

Or poor acquisition of habits.
Likely ADHD related if it doesn't stick well, likely autism related if it just doesn't enter the point of routines.


I don't know, could be a combination?



MrsPeel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2017
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,744
Location: Australia

25 Mar 2023, 1:15 am

Recidivist wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
So I was wondering if this sounds like an AS executive function problem? Or something else?
Just hoping for the thoughts of those with EF issues.


It could be, it could also be other things, e.g. ADHD forgetfulness. Your best bet would be to ask your son why he does it, but not in a dressing down way or just after you bollocked him, just an adult to adult conversation.


Yeah I've tried asking him, but he's never been able to explain it. I know he hates being that way, he finds it really frustrating, and gets upset when there are consequences.



MrsPeel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2017
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,744
Location: Australia

25 Mar 2023, 1:18 am

Double Retired wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
So I was wondering if this sounds like an AS executive function problem? Or something else?
Just hoping for the thoughts of those with EF issues.
If forgetfulness (as Edna3362 asked)...I find visual cues help me to remember to do something. For instance:

► I take all my pills in the morning (I'm old). Where the bottles are tells me if I've taken them, yet. One location for Need-to-take and a different location for Already-took.

► I have a small notepad and write myself reminder notes. Only when I've completed the necessary task do I get rid of the reminder note.

► I suppose a whiteboard To-Do list could also work.


It seems like its so bad with my son that he either can't persuade himself to make the list or just doesn't stick to it.
It's so weird because to me it seems basic that if there's something that needs to be done, I will try my best to get it done by scheduling or setting aside a time or whatever. But he won't do that.



MrsPeel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2017
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,744
Location: Australia

25 Mar 2023, 1:26 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Task Initiation, Executive Functioning, and Autistic Inertia
Quote:

Accommodations

Perhaps the most basic and useful accommodation that can be sought is prompting. Prompting is exactly what it sounds like: giving a prompt in some form as a way of helping someone to move onto another task. This could be anything from a written chart to verbal prompting, and can even be done independently by, say, setting an alarm on your phone at specific times. Sometimes a prompt is enough to push us out of the rut and moving onto another task. Sometimes it could take multiple prompts, but I say that with the warning that this could quickly become overwhelming, particularly in people who have the Persistent-Demand-Avoidance autism subtype, but that’s a discussion for another day.


Yes, this is what I'm having to do with him, just lots and lots of prompting.
E.g. his washing up from last week was supposed to be done 6 days ago. I have had to remind him to do it every single evening when I get home from work. Each time he says he will and gets up and goes to the sink to do it. But when I check back in half an hour he has not actually done it and gone back to his room so then I have to remind him again. Yesterday he did about one-third before disappearing. Today I'm hoping he'll do the last two-thirds but I've already reminded him 3 times. Last time he had run the water and it was sitting in the sink but he'd gone back to his room before starting the dishes.
In the past, I've got angry with him but it doesn't seem to help, he just bursts into tears. This is a 21 year old!!

I'm going to go back and check on his progress now...
(fingers crossed)



MrsPeel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2017
Age: 52
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,744
Location: Australia

25 Mar 2023, 1:48 am

OK he got another third of it washed up but only because I stayed there watching to make sure he did it.
But then he said he needed a glass of water and departed.

I guess I'll have to go remind him to do the last third shortly.



klanka
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2022
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,888
Location: Cardiff, Wales

25 Mar 2023, 4:34 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
There is no treatment for burnout, especially when the sensory nervous system is fried like mine and skibum's and some other members'. Our sensory system didn't develop right in the first place, so with age and repeat overwhelm it's completely debilitating. The best we can do is to avoid sensory stimuli which, for the most part, means avoiding life. Unfortunately most societies and institutions don't let people avoid life. It's sad that places which are designed to help us, like OT therapy centres, aren't even accessible because they fill the places with primary-coloured bouncy balls and put cartoons all over the walls for children, not to mention they usually have bright lights and lots of noise.

I've been in burnout for decades but only pushed through it because I had no choice as a single parent. I didn't mask because I've never known how. I spent my whole in autistic distress and making a fool of myself socially. Masking might have come as a relief, if I'd known how. I think it's the same for skibum.

How long ago did your burnout happen and what were you able to before,that you couldn't do after?

I'm probably not masking properly but I can't tell as I don't get feedback.

Yeah I think those OT centres would make me uncomfortable.



longshot
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Dec 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,037
Location: In some fictional location

26 Mar 2023, 3:01 pm

When I was 5 years old, I was diagnosed as having classic autism though, I never received any support nor resources in terms of educational tools whatsoever. Later in my life I was given another analysis and was classified as having Asperger Syndrome, I tend to feel more comfortable however, I never was able to acquire the tools and help that I needed from an occupational standpoint.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 67,988
Location: Chez Quis

28 Mar 2023, 10:39 pm

klanka wrote:
How long ago did your burnout happen and what were you able to before,that you couldn't do after?


Sorry. I just saw this.

It's hard to say because I was never lit to begin with. :lol:
Well, maybe a little ... :afro: 8)

I could never "do" any of the things associated with burnout without feeling intense depletion.

Problem things lifelong:

Going anywhere or doing anything beyond the basics of school and work, being around people including my own family (as a child I hid and ate in my bedroom, as an adult at work I hid and ate in a closet with the lights out), speaking to people face to face, eye contact, being organised, adapting to new situations, changing routines, following any type of social norm, regulating my behaviour (smiling on cue, using gestures, hiding stims, expressing emotions verbally, remembering faces, making small talk, copying and mirroring ... ), thinking in a linear way, dealing with sensory overload -- I couldn't do any of that. I had a lot of shutdowns and in fact my entire life was like a shutdown socially and emotionally as far back as I can remember.

I didn't know I was ASD or ADHD. I had been diagnosed with mutism in primary school but otherwise was pushed through school where again, I used to hide in library study carols because I was too scared to go in the dining hall for lunch. I loved literature and philosophy because I could "go inside my head" and avoid the real world. That's how I ended up in Uni and getting my career all on a trajectory designed to foster my introversion. Even in Uni I kept to myself and only spent time with my flatmates.

Burnout:

I'd started my career and become a single mum when my ex left. I had to keep treading water or I'd lose custody of the kids. I had no choice but to confront the stark terror of being a responsible adult and parent. In 2001 I suffered a clinical nervous breakdown which means that my adrenal system stopped functioning bc I had depleted all my adrenaline. It made my heart stop briefly. I was really ill and in hospital a few weeks for medical but also psych care because I was so fried and stressed out. After that, I still went back to work bc I had no choice.

I'll skip the next several years bc of trauma which occurred. On the other side of trauma I attempted to continue working but suffered my first stroke and needed a year of stroke rehab. In rehab they kept commenting that even with stroke recovery I wasn't acting "normal", but I knew I'd never achieved those standards they were looking for. That's around the time my daughter told me I was autistic and I started WP. Then I got diagnosed Level 2 about five months later. Then ADHD about two years after that.

I've been home on Disability for my stroke / trauma ever since. I had a second stroke in December 2020. I usually think of my "burnout" as being the time since I've been home pretty much housebound, but I know very well it started about 20 years ago, or likely around the time my ex left in 1997 -- if not years before that.


The main things I can't do now are:


- giving a shite about things I don't want to give a shite about (seriously tho)
- self-care
- sensory -- it's so bad I'm debilitated at times (most of the time) (OK all the time), like skibum
- verbal speech
- being around people at all, really -- even in my own home



klanka
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Mar 2022
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,888
Location: Cardiff, Wales

29 Mar 2023, 9:50 am

Things must have been really bad to have run out of adrenaline,wow.
I have watched videos on 'adrenal fatigue' so I can see how it might be a long term condition.

I can't stand noise from other people which is something that didn't bother me too much
in the past.
I used to sometimes eat in a closet as a child and I used to spend lunchtimes alone as a teenager unless very close friends were around.

It's a shame that self care is an issue for you now. I think I've gone a bit backwards with that since last year.



purplepuffin
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 26 Mar 2023
Gender: Female
Posts: 51
Location: Australia

29 Mar 2023, 6:15 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
OK he got another third of it washed up but only because I stayed there watching to make sure he did it.
But then he said he needed a glass of water and departed.

I guess I'll have to go remind him to do the last third shortly.

Have him try the pomodoro method. It really helps you get started on a task you know you need to do but just can't start because it seems overwhelming. Basically you decide that you only need to do the task for a short time, then you can do whatever you want for some time, then you do the task again for a short time. Makes the task not seem so bad so it is easier to get started. Sometimes you get into a rhythm once you start and you keep going past the short time and finish it (the ideal).

For example you might get him to wash the dishes for 1 minute, then do something else for ten minutes, like listen to music or whatever he would rather be doing. Then wash the dishes for 1 minute 30, and do something else for five. Or you could discuss with him how to divide up the dishwashing task, like there is fetching stuff from other rooms, washing the cutlery, the plates, the bowls, drying and putting away - and instead of having a time period (if this makes him drag his feet) have the divisions be 'wash all the forks', or, 'wash all the cups' instead of a time period (and let him choose which division to do when).

In his head, he may feel like the dishwashing task seems completely overwhelming and he feels like he'll never be able to finish it so he really doesn't want to even start. And especially resistant if his parent is making him.