Why NTs might find autistic people annoying

Page 2 of 5 [ 65 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,074
Location: England

22 Sep 2023, 2:56 pm

Weight Of Memory wrote:
I've always been annoyed with people trying to comfort me with some kind of reassurance that others have been through similar things. I know it's meant well, but it never makes me feel better.


I don't do that though. I say 'I'm sorry you're going through that, I hope it gets better for you' or similar. Like in my examples above.

I'm not sure what else to say to show I'm there to support people. Maybe what most English people say? i.e. 'Stop moaning. Pull yourself together. Other people have it far worse than you, what are you complaining about?'

They wouldn't like that, would they :lol: :lol:


_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.


ToughDiamond
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,364

22 Sep 2023, 6:17 pm

KitLily wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
I've certainly annoyed people with my tedious attention to detail. It's probably put off a lot of people who weren't much into precise thinking. I think having a science job most of my life helped me to stick to people who weren't so averse to data. I like to think that I've improved over the years, and that I don't often annoy anybody these days. I've also had some kind of sympathy with people who have to put up with the kind of things I (used to) do. Listening to too much detail tires me out and I lose focus. There can't be a 2-way conversation if either party starts data-dumping.


I think I know what you mean:

My autistic friends were data dumping. I was wishing them well. But they thought I'd misunderstood their comment and tried to correct me. But all I was doing was wishing them well with no other motive. Because I'm busy and don't have lots of time or energy to go into the extreme detail they wanted me to go into.

Is that what you meant?

Yes. The chances aren't great that anybody would want to know a lot about a random subject. The Aspie tends to presume that an interesting subject will be interesting to everybody, until experience teaches them better.



SharonB
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,738

22 Sep 2023, 6:26 pm

Maybe try the empathy and sympathy and leave off the hope?
Oh a rainy day is miserable isn't it. I had one of those days yesterday.

Even in my ASD group, things I or others say in support are sometimes taken the wrong way. Like you said it doubly hurts. However, my group is face-to-face and we apologize and/or clarify and move on and maintain rapport.

My mom can be too positive for me and I can be too positive for my daughter. In writing a person can't tell between a really compassionate "good luck" or "I'm glad..." (which sits nicely aside doom and gloom) and a peppy "good luck" or "I'm glad..." (which can be abrasive to the mopey).

NTs are really big about sharing moods or being in a neutral mood. I've been told I'm "self indulgent" when I don't comply to a group's behavior norm. Phooey I say. As always, pros and cons.

Sorry you're being picked on for being supportive. I hope you find a way to be comfortable in the venue you are visiting, or else can somehow "gate" so it's not toxic for you.



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,074
Location: England

23 Sep 2023, 4:05 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I think I know what you mean:

My autistic friends were data dumping. I was wishing them well. But they thought I'd misunderstood their comment and tried to correct me. But all I was doing was wishing them well with no other motive. Because I'm busy and don't have lots of time or energy to go into the extreme detail they wanted me to go into.

Is that what you meant?

Yes. The chances aren't great that anybody would want to know a lot about a random subject. The Aspie tends to presume that an interesting subject will be interesting to everybody, until experience teaches them better.


So in the case of person A trying to support and comfort person B, person A wouldn't know a lot about person B's situation and so they would just say something generally supportive to person B. I wish person B would just accept the sentiment and not pick holes in the details of the situation.

That's what can be annoying to NTs, I reckon.


_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.


KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,074
Location: England

23 Sep 2023, 4:08 am

SharonB wrote:
Maybe try the empathy and sympathy and leave off the hope?
Oh a rainy day is miserable isn't it. I had one of those days yesterday.


Thanks Sharon :)

I could, but then it would feel like I'm turning the conversation back to myself and my own needs: 'I had one of those yesterday' sounds like I want sympathy myself.

It's a tricky one. But I have learned to ignore the parts of the conversation I don't like/know about and focus on the ones I do. It's a knack of talking to NTs, it makes the conversation go more smoothly.

I find if I focus on everything an NT says and try as hard as I can to understand it, they get annoyed. The best way is to focus on what *I* want to say and continue talking about that.

I hope that makes sense.


_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.


bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,395

23 Sep 2023, 4:19 am

When someone is trying to be nice I usually appreciate it because they are trying to help, even if what they actually say is not in itself helpful, and sometimes it's even bad advice or something that is upsetting because I've heard it before many times and have been upset by it before.

But some people may bristle at hearing something that is unhelpful or that they feel is not relevant to their problem and react badly or in an annoying and pedantic way. I'm not sure it's just people with ASD that do this. But I agree we may be nitpicky when there is no need (looking at the trees rather than the forest), and that NTs might find that annoying.

I actually find NTs much harder to deal with in situations like that, because they are always reading subtext that I had not intended, so they are responding to something I didn't even say and wasn't even thinking.



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,074
Location: England

23 Sep 2023, 6:33 am

bee33 wrote:
When someone is trying to be nice I usually appreciate it because they are trying to help, even if what they actually say is not in itself helpful, and sometimes it's even bad advice or something that is upsetting because I've heard it before many times and have been upset by it before.

But some people may bristle at hearing something that is unhelpful or that they feel is not relevant to their problem and react badly or in an annoying and pedantic way. I'm not sure it's just people with ASD that do this. But I agree we may be nitpicky when there is no need (looking at the trees rather than the forest), and that NTs might find that annoying.

I actually find NTs much harder to deal with in situations like that, because they are always reading subtext that I had not intended, so they are responding to something I didn't even say and wasn't even thinking.


I must say, you always give such sensible, considered answers to comments, thanks!

I suppose it depends if the person is being dismissive or not. Some people casually say 'oh that problem? Do A, B and C and you'll be fine.' That is far too casual and thoughtless. I'm sure I'm guilty of doing that because I was brought up to react like that to problems. But I've tried hard not to do it in the last few years, and just say 'I'm sorry you are going through that.'

I've learned that from Americans, who are very good at being sympathetic. Brits tend to give dismissive advice, as above, or say 'pull yourself together! There are many people who have it much worse than you, so stop moaning!' Which is completely useless advice.

Yes it could be everyone, not just ASD people who react like that.

Oh yes the subtext. OMG that is annoying. I use words according to their meaning, not with subtext :roll:


_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.


SharonB
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,738

23 Sep 2023, 7:56 am

KitLily wrote:
SharonB wrote:
Maybe try the empathy and sympathy and leave off the hope?
Oh a rainy day is miserable isn't it. I had one of those days yesterday.


Thanks Sharon :)

I could, but then it would feel like I'm turning the conversation back to myself and my own needs: 'I had one of those yesterday' sounds like I want sympathy myself.

It's a tricky one. But I have learned to ignore the parts of the conversation I don't like/know about and focus on the ones I do. It's a knack of talking to NTs, it makes the conversation go more smoothly.

I find if I focus on everything an NT says and try as hard as I can to understand it, they get annoyed. The best way is to focus on what *I* want to say and continue talking about that.

I hope that makes sense.

OK, try (teasing, not teasing):
Oh a rainy day is miserable isn't it?
Yep, pretty sure that would work. :wink: It's brief and there's a rhetorical question which NTs love. If they answer you know you're dealing with a closet ASD person. :wink:

This is the old twist ourselves into knots to please people who won't be pleased (and other NTs know that and roll with it) or not. We care, NTs roll.



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,074
Location: England

23 Sep 2023, 9:59 am

SharonB wrote:
OK, try (teasing, not teasing):
Oh a rainy day is miserable isn't it?
Yep, pretty sure that would work. :wink: It's brief and there's a rhetorical question which NTs love. If they answer you know you're dealing with a closet ASD person. :wink:

This is the old twist ourselves into knots to please people who won't be pleased (and other NTs know that and roll with it) or not. We care, NTs roll.


I'll try that but I prefer to say 'sorry you're feeling like that, I hope you feel better soon.' That's nice and neutral isn't it. tbh I'm getting fed up with them so I'm going to say what I like :roll: :lol:

But I think I've hit the nail on the head about why NTs get annoyed with autists: we analyse their comments too much. And on the flipside, NTs analyse things autists say looking for meaning when there isn't any. What a muddle! No wonder we can't communicate.

I've also got another autistic friend who is going overboard replying to every post I make online now. I'm overwhelmed so I'm trying to fend him off. He's now sending video clips of Doctor Who, which I don't even watch.

Any tips to get him to back off, Auntie Sharon?

I've realised I don't like clingy people. :?


_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.


SharonB
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,738

23 Sep 2023, 11:05 am

LOL

For being direct and blunt, I'm the queen of avoidance as much as any person. The difficulty is that it's hard for many of us to ignore input. Walk into a store and see Everything (and miss the Thing). Walk into a party and hear Everything (and miss the Thing). A friend making demands and feel Everything (and miss the Thing). Soooooooo..... --- my 1st thought is to go overboard on responding (give desired attention) and then curb it. If you already did, is there a FB temporary "ignore" (or block while remaining friends)? I am the "clingy" ASD and my BFF is the Avoidant ASD. We've negotiated our communication: I make an effort to do less, she makes an effort to do more. That's easier with a BFF, but not so with an acquaintance. If you are ready to be direct :D --- "I can see you really like Dr. Who; I'm not a follower and could use a break (and can't figure out how to unsee these...) how about 1 a month and/or interlacing them with [your favorite subject]?" My BFF and I spend a long time composing responses and emails and the such. Probably why my verbal conversations are stilted - all the possibilities that come to mind (Everything) and I can't sift out the "appropriate" one (the Thing). Thanks for the opportunity to think about about it; so much more fun to think and think and think than do. :wink:



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,074
Location: England

23 Sep 2023, 11:31 am

SharonB wrote:
The difficulty is that it's hard for many of us to ignore input. Walk into a store and see Everything (and miss the Thing). Walk into a party and hear Everything (and miss the Thing). A friend making demands and feel Everything (and miss the Thing).


That is such a good summary. That is my life: see/experience everything and be unable to pick out the important thing.

SharonB wrote:
Soooooooo..... --- my 1st thought is to go overboard on responding (give desired attention) and then curb it. If you already did, is there a FB temporary "ignore" (or block while remaining friends)?


Okay. I think I did the overboard thing over the last two days and I'm curbing it now. That's good to know I'm on the right track.

I think I can mute him, yes. He suddenly decided to watch a new show just because I had started watching it so we could talk about it. He totally threw himself into it, which was sweet but a bit weird.

SharonB wrote:
Probably why my verbal conversations are stilted - all the possibilities that come to mind (Everything) and I can't sift out the "appropriate" one (the Thing). Thanks for the opportunity to think about about it; so much more fun to think and think and think than do. :wink:


I reckon my conversations are like that too :?


_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.


Lackingincaffeine
Butterfly
Butterfly

Joined: 18 Nov 2022
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 15
Location: Uk

23 Sep 2023, 6:32 pm

Sometimes my lad will ramble on. If it's about tweaks to variables on his pc to improve gameplay, etc, I just turn off my brain and let him say what he wants to say. He doesn't seem to care that I'm not really listening. We're both happy.

Sometimes he'll ask what I assume is a rhetorical question, and then say "Mum? MUM?" when I've assumed no reply was necessary. It's mildly annoying for both of us when that happens.

He may be Nd. Or perhaps just annoying. If he's determined autistic I can list more things autistic people do that NTs find annoying. If it's ruled out, I can still share lots of annoying things people (generally) do.



bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,395

23 Sep 2023, 9:58 pm

KitLily wrote:

Oh yes the subtext. OMG that is annoying. I use words according to their meaning, not with subtext :roll:

The subtext thing still always gets me unaware. I had a roommate years ago who thought I was washing the dishes just to criticize her for not washing them, and she angrily accused me of it! Imagine my crime: washing the dishes!



bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,395

23 Sep 2023, 10:05 pm

KitLily wrote:
I've also got another autistic friend who is going overboard replying to every post I make online now. I'm overwhelmed so I'm trying to fend him off. He's now sending video clips of Doctor Who, which I don't even watch.
I'm so bad at this that I would probably just bluntly ask them please not to send me any videos. Maybe I would try to soften it by saying I don't like to receive videos (or links to interesting articles etc.) because then I feel obligated to watch them so as not to be rude and they become another thing on my to-do list, which is already long. On second thought, that doesn't really soften it, does it?

I have a real-life friend whom I have known for many years and with whom I only talk on the phone because he doesn't live near me. He's undiagnosed but possibly ASD. He just monologues for an hour and I barely have an opportunity to respond or say anything. If I try to change the subject he'll say, "Wait, I haven't finished explaining about the parts I ordered to fix my lawnmower." So I can't win. But truly I don't mind. I like him and I like being a listening ear. And in a way it's easier because I don't have to think of things to say.



bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,395

23 Sep 2023, 10:09 pm

SharonB wrote:
OK, try (teasing, not teasing):
Oh a rainy day is miserable isn't it?
Yep, pretty sure that would work. :wink: It's brief and there's a rhetorical question which NTs love. If they answer you know you're dealing with a closet ASD person. :wink:

With both NTs and ASD folks, giving them an opening to talk about themselves seems to make them happy. An NT might reply with pleasantries and and ASD person might reply with an in-depth explanation, but I'm good with either one.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,284

24 Sep 2023, 2:22 am

bee33 wrote:
I actually find NTs much harder to deal with in situations like that, because they are always reading subtext that I had not intended, so they are responding to something I didn't even say and wasn't even thinking.


A lot of NTs use non-verbal cues and subtext to try and read intention. If the volume of subtext gets to a critical point of mismatch they usually decide that person is too hard to read and move on.