The dismissal - infantilization - outburst loop

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__Elijahahahaho
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13 Jan 2024, 10:42 am

Is it impossible to avoid?

Seems to be common theme that people are dismissive and the relationship follows a familiar arc.

1. meeting, everything ok
2. slowly get to know each other, everything ok
3. building frustration but don't really know what it is
4. direct confrontations, met with dismissal, ad-hominem, being ignored.
5. I get increasingly angry terminate the relationship.

I think what it comes down to is differing levels of caring about things, slower social processing, lacking of fine-grained social nuance.

I don't know. I think its just hard to find good people.
Identifying subtle abuse is hard, and my way holds less validity somehow.
That is the nature of my condition.

If you get justifiably angry your response will be used against you sometimes in pretty extreme ways.
Without high-finesse social skills you have no power in most social circles that I have come across in the West.

Ableism is normalised. Lies and emotional manipulation is necessary to motivate anyone to take you seriously.
Noone cares about anything, or listens to reason.



SharonB
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13 Jan 2024, 11:52 am

I just read in a middle school book "I'll do that for you if you stop baby talking me..." I think for many folks if we can get ahead of it, then we'd do better, but in reaction is hard b/c we have emotions to regulate. Getting ahead of it remains hard for me, so I imagine handing out written cards to manage the situation. I would love to have a stack of self-advocacy notes that worked. Basically they would all read "be respectful to others, you jack---." :evil: (so really I am demonstrating your exact concern: lack of finesse)



__Elijahahahaho
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13 Jan 2024, 3:09 pm

Yeah, I mean "getting ahead of it" means a neurotypical-level of masking,
Its what I am trying to do, but its pretty unhealthy.

Then again, deaf people learn to read lips, this is what I tell myself.



Vander571
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13 Jan 2024, 3:48 pm

Perhaps you are connecting with the wrong people. Or are putting expectations on people which can never be met.

People are the way they are. We can't expect everyone to "get us" just because we want them to or think they should and then get angry at them when they don't.

If we go about looking for some sort of fulfilment from the world we will always be let down because this is something the world can not deliver.


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CockneyRebel
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13 Jan 2024, 9:35 pm

It's the infantilization that I don't understand. Why do people feel the need to infantilize us. People should speak to us the way they wish to be spoken to.

Here's an article about the harm of infantilizing autistic people. It gets into the details that I can't put into words.

https://www.rdiconnect.com/the-harm-in- ... F%E2%80%9D


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__Elijahahahaho
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14 Jan 2024, 6:58 am

It's not just autistic people who are infantilized.
Elderly, people who have speech impediments, or just someone you want to bully really.

It's a smart strategy because it is hard to fight someone who is "trying to help"/"seems caring"
and everyone hates aggression apparently (except Russians).



SharonB
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20 Jan 2024, 9:39 am

Yes, it is bigger than that. It seems that many (NT) folks tend to infantilize children. I don't do that. I speak to my children and others respectfully and expect that they can be responsible for themselves (within reason). I've read memoirs written by Autistic parents (mostly mothers) and it appears they also speak to their children similarly (without infantilizing). Point being the outburst loop can start early.



Antabade
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20 Jan 2024, 10:15 am

Can't really say what causes it, just can say this is very, very relatable.

I can't. Won't. Do the whole court dance just to be "socially acceptable." If you ask me how that article of clothing looks on you, and I say, not that flattering, try the blue one. Either understand it's said with love and take/leave the advice, or don't ask me. If you're just wanting someone to toot your horn, you're asking the wrong person.

It's absolutely baffling that autism gets generally pegged as missing these social nuances. In my experience, and the handful of NDs I've spoken with, we see it. Just step right over if it seems silly or counterintuitive.

The other one cannot understand is lack of consideration for others' time and space.
I cannot even imagine the- entitlement, is that what it is?- that would make me think it's okay to call someone multiple times in a row, or keep pressing towards someone and insisting on carrying on a conversation they clearly don't want to have right then. In any way keep forcing communication, or my presence, where it is clearly unwelcome at that time.

The lying, expecting white lies and a** kissing, and expectation of others time, is just wild to me.

And somehow I'm the rude one :lol:



DanielW
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20 Jan 2024, 10:49 am

There are a couple of things you can do that might help. One being learning to cope with people who are dismissive, because you can't control other people, you can learn healthy responses to their behavior. The second thing is simply confronting the infantilizing behavior. "I'm sorry but I don't speak baby talk." You can add "Perhaps he can continue this discussion when you've grown up a little?" if you want to be snarky.

Generally speaking, learning to self-regulate your emotions and your emotional response to being frustrated, and angry will also help you become less affected by "irritating" behaviors by other people. You might look at the people you are surrounding yourself. Is this happening with everyone you meet? or just a few? If its everyone, and you notice that it is a long-standing pattern, then its probably a "you" problem and not a "them" problem