TIRED of being RIDICULED and VILIFIED - Help!

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Kitsy
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24 Sep 2007, 7:09 pm

CanyonWind wrote:

[b]Nobody tells an amputee they just need to take leg growing classes.[/b]


:lol: Hey sounds like something someone in my family would say.



Arbie
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24 Sep 2007, 7:13 pm

Mw99 wrote:
In the NT-ese language, I am not an Aspergian; I'm something else.

At first, they are friendly and talkative. But once they get to know me, they either: shun me, laugh at me, ridicule me or are mean to me -- some badmouth me behind my back, a few are bold and do it right in front of me.

The most cool headed ones simply ignore me.

I've reached a point in my life where I am afraid of meeting new people, because I know from experience, that the odds of them mistreating them -- and hence hurting my feelings -- are just too high to justify the effort of trying to be social. This attitude is not cynicism or pessimism; it's plain understanding of the difference between probability and possibility.


This part of your post described pretty much how my social life was in school, and how I feel about things now.

I can't relate to the part about being accused of being arrogant, and I have always believed that my social difficulties are my own fault. Other people are to blame for being mean to me because of them though.



becca423b
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24 Sep 2007, 10:02 pm

Hello, I'm new. I have a question for anyone who has taken these "social skills classes:" are they helpful? Where does one find them? I have been painfully shy and awkward and friendless my whole life and have just now realized it's because of AS. Reading these posts now is literally the first time I've ever felt as though anyone understands how I feel.

It cannot be my fault I am socially inept. I have spent my whole life trying and trying and trying so hard to memorize exactly how I am supposed to act in every possible situation and I've decided it's impossible. It's just not fair that I should have such difficulty with what everyone else simply picks up on naturally.

At the same time, I still want to try to learn because the bottom line is one needs social skills to be sucessful at work and in life. I don't want to be denied a promotion just because I didn't make enough eye contact.



sinsboldly
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24 Sep 2007, 10:29 pm

ZakFiend wrote:
Mw99 wrote:
Zak, those folks help "normal" guys meet women. They don't help autistic people act normal.


Dude you are not your LABEL. I smell LIMITING BELIEF, if that FAT UGLY DUDE can learn how to talk to women and overcome his fear to socialize, you can too. You just don't want to because you rather be indifferent to your own life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DYn4-h3Cnk


YOU just thought he was a fat ugly dude! He had more personality than Mystery could believe and he had to kick him out so his FAVORITE. . that Columbian guy could win, but he hasn't the soupcon of personality of that heavy cute guy with the fabulous personality!



Mw99
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25 Sep 2007, 9:07 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
ZakFiend wrote:
Mw99 wrote:
Zak, those folks help "normal" guys meet women. They don't help autistic people act normal.


Dude you are not your LABEL. I smell LIMITING BELIEF, if that FAT UGLY DUDE can learn how to talk to women and overcome his fear to socialize, you can too. You just don't want to because you rather be indifferent to your own life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DYn4-h3Cnk


YOU just thought he was a fat ugly dude! He had more personality than Mystery could believe and he had to kick him out so his FAVORITE. . that Columbian guy could win, but he hasn't the soupcon of personality of that heavy cute guy with the fabulous personality!


He's an actor.



bigizz
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25 Sep 2007, 10:11 pm

I've read and listened to a lot of advice over the years about how to improve socializing. Unfortunately it never helps me because it isn't directed at Aspies, it is directed at NT's. Let's look at a cliche and unimaginative saying "just be yourself." Unfortunately being myself doesn't help at all. If I am, people just think I'm weird. In fairness I probably am weird to them so it isn't at all surprising that they think that. So if being myself doesn't work what alternative am I left with to fit in? I need to be someone else. Which for me means pretending you care about the inane things people talk about, constantly thinking and analyzing, trying to think of things to talk with, modeling my personality after various role models, making up things so I have interesting things to say, lying about any number of things for any number of reasons, being mean and making fun of others for no reason other than people think 'm funny, etc etc. It's just too much.



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25 Sep 2007, 11:06 pm

I can relate to that. I have had friends try to help me be less shy and come out of my shell. It just didn't work and they would eventually give up trying. It made me feel like a hopeless case.


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sleepless168
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26 Sep 2007, 3:35 am

"Nobody tells an amputee they just need to take leg growing classes."

lol this hits the nail in the head. this can only be thought of by a true aspie, on the other hand zak obviously doesn't understand what he is talking about.

i have never taken social skills classes. to be honest i dont think nobody knows how to give such a class, especially to aspies. think about it, who can really give such a class? neither psychologysts nor psychatrists are trained to give such a class. An actor or actress? how? they work with emotions, not with social skills. Truth is nobody knows really how to give such a class.

besides social skills classes for aspies are like giving aspirines to a severely ill person and expect him to be just alright the next day. for starters it just doesn't address the real problem. we aspies have a mountain of problems accumulated from our basic aspie problems. so you first have to address this accumulated psychological problems, and then start the process of getting them to understand NT world perspective and other things.
Social skill classes don't address the real problem, the problem is mostly psychological, it's not like learning to dance. in any case the result would be very mechanical and not natural, so nothing improves with such a perspective.



Dys
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26 Sep 2007, 4:12 am

People might well tell an amputee to take hopping classes though.
It's about learning to function in the world we're confronted with, finding ways around the communication barrier.
There's kinda two aspects of the whole learning to deal with NTs thing..
You have to overcome the negative feelings they cause in you, and you have to learn to cause positive feelings in them.
You have to learn to act, basically.
It will never come naturally, you will always have to think about what your face is doing, and how you move and it must be incredibly hard. I do think it's possible though. We're analytic, we're systematic, we're obsessive. We can learn, not to think like an NT but to mimic them.
I don't bother, but that's a personal choice.



bigizz
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26 Sep 2007, 6:44 am

The problem is such a class couldn't exist now. I don't think any NT could give such a class because they wouldn't really understand the prospective of their Aspie students. And no Aspie could give the class because, by definition, they suffer from the same difficulties as their students. Perhaps one day we will advance to a place where the two sides would understand each other enough to facilitate such an idea.

Why not just make all the NT's take Thinking Like an Aspie classes so they could be like us instead? :lol:



AnnabelLee
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26 Sep 2007, 7:23 am

Mw99 wrote:
ZakFiend wrote:
Mw99 wrote:
Why is it my fault that I can't be social?


It's ALWAYS your fault, all people are NOT evil.


It's not my fault; it's my brain's fault. It's always my brain's fault. Remarking that all people are not evil, as if implying that I think all people are evil, is actually a very NTish thing to do. Obviously, I don't think all people are evil. Only an idiot would think that.

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If you're not fitting in the first rule is: What am I doing wong? You really sound like you need social skills classes.

You're giving off negative vibes around people, what you need to do is get someone to videocam you social interactions and then they will become clear what kind of body language you are projecting.


Yes, I want social skills classes. I also want to understand the type of vibes I'm sending when I'm around people.

Where do I find this type of help? Do I open the yellow pages and search for "social skills"?


I consider these types of responses unproductive and downright mean. If you have autism of any form, you are doing your best just to get by. Why should he or anyone else with a disability be forced to go to tons of classes and therapies to try to become something he isn't? That is arrogant of nts to believe we should for them. They won't for us! I am not embittered towards all people, only those displaying ignorance or arrogance. They are not better than you are because they are nt and you are not. They are simply different. What is this country coming to when you are no longer allowed to be different and be unique? Now, they want you to attend classes to make you normal.
For the record, I've attended these so-called classes. I can carry on a normal (for the most part) conversation with people. I can fool most people into thinking I am an nt...only if the conversations do not go for very long or they do not get to know me better. As soon as they start to see a lot of me, it becomes apparent to even the most dense person that something is different about me.
You sound like my mother. "It is YOUR fault that people make fun of you because you are different." WHY? Did I ask to be? Did you? Did you ask God, in utero, to make you an autie? Hell no you didn't!! !!
You just do the best you can to cope and deal with things and find a good counselor. They can be a treasure. I have one. I read this post to her and described what people are saying to me. She considers that the typical arrogance of most Americans. They believe themselves to be more important than anyone else, so people who are different should change so their lives are easier. What's wrong with them displaying some understanding and simple courtesy? My friends do! They understand that I cannot read them, that I get on my "topics" and have a hard time talking of much else. They gently guide me back to the conversation or they very clearly explain how they are feeling. How hard is that? It isn't even something that takes more than 10 seconds of their time. Yet I should devote hours a day to therapy for those who don't even care about me? Think about what you are saying.
Sweety, be you. Be who you are and explain to people what you need. If they ridicule or deny you aid, they are a waste of your time and energy. Find yourself someone who cares about YOU for who you are. They do exist.

Annabel Lee


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AnnabelLee
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26 Sep 2007, 7:34 am

To answer the question about "social skills classes" my children and I have taken such classes. Useless, absolutely useless for many reasons!
My 10 year old daughter (aspie) came to me and told me the classes made no sense. When I asked her why, she explained that they were telling her she "had" to do these things to fit in but not WHY. It was illogical to her, and further, she said they want her to pretend to be someone she can't be. This, from a 10 year old.
I decided to take the classes myself (adult version). She was absolutely right and these classes were offered by the "greatest" in the field and cost a fortune. Needless to say, I got my money back. They want us to pretend and play act which, I believe is unethical. I will NOT be false for someone else's benefit. If others can stomach that, have at it.
Learning how to give proper response to questions (as my autie son is doing) is one thing. If you cannot answer WH questions, you need to learn the right responses. That is DIFFERENT than the social classes.
How do you teach to read people's expressions and body language? You can't.
How do you teach how to think differently when your brain is not wired that way? You can't.
From the responses of one person on this post, I am doubting seriously their AS status...only someone who does not have it could be that unsympathetic to the difficulties this poor poster is feeing.


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ZakFiend
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27 Sep 2007, 1:59 am

AnnabelLee wrote:
To answer the question about "social skills classes" my children and I have taken such classes. Useless, absolutely useless for many reasons!.


That's because they are not being taught by people who know! the other issues are: Your child has to want to be committed and ready to learn. It's the same principle of trying to get your child to lose weight, only your child can ultimately commit him or herself to learning how to socialize, you can't just put all the responsibility on those teaching. It takes time and commitment.