Did it occur to you maybe you're Schizoid and not an Aspie?

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Strapples
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22 Dec 2007, 7:56 pm

Mw99 wrote:
I recently learned about Schizold Personality Disorder and it sounds an awful lot like Asperger's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_P ... y_Disorder

ICD-10 criteria
According to the ICD-10, schizoid personality disorder is characterized by at least four of the following criteria:

1.Emotional coldness, detachment or reduced affection. (NO)
2.Limited capacity to express either positive or negative emotions towards others. (YES)
3.Consistent preference for solitary activities. (YES)
4.Very few (if any) close friends or relationships, and a lack of desire for such. (NO) i desire it... not capable of it.
5.Indifference to either praise or criticism. (NO)
6.Taking pleasure in few, if any, activities. (YES)
7.Indifference to social norms and conventions. (YES)
8.Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection. (YES)
9.Lack of desire for sexual experiences with another person. (YES)

DSM-IV-TR criteria
The DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines schizoid personality disorder as:

A. A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

1.neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family (NO)
2.almost always chooses solitary activities (YES)
3.has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person (YES)
4.takes pleasure in few, if any, activities (YES)
5.lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives (NO)
6.appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others (NO)
7.shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity (NO)

B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia, a mood disorder with psychotic features, another psychotic disorder, or a pervasive developmental disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.



Unlike Asperger's Syndrome, SPD does not involve an impairment in nonverbal communication (e.g., lack of eye-contact or unusual prosody) or a pattern of restricted interests or repetitive behaviors (e.g., a strict adherence to routines or rituals, or an unusually intense interest in a single topic). Instead people with SPD are typically more indifferent with regard to their activities. However, in a sample of schizoid children, Sula Wolff noticed that "Having special interest patterns differentiated highly between schizoid and control boys." SPD does not affect the ability to express oneself or communicate effectively with others, and is not believed to be related to any form of autism.


and i also have very bad nonverbal thingy... i also have severely restricted interests... so i am NOT schizoid!


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Icarus_Falling
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22 Dec 2007, 8:00 pm

Yes, it has occurred to me.

In all honesty, I believe I have more than a bit of both. The combined description of schizotypal and Asperger’s describe me better than either individual description. I have both diagnosed autism (son) and diagnosed schizophrenia (sister) in my immediate family. Autism and schizotypal are both clearly multi-dimensional spectrums, rather than distinct conditions; any expert who suggests that these spectrums cannot overlap has a poor understanding of human mentality.

I have observed that AS and schizowhatever are often misdiagnosed as one another, more often the former as the latter, but I have seen the reverse.

In any case, I am much more complex than any specific diagnosis can account for; AS and schizotypal are just the tip of my mental iceberg. But, I can say that I am quite a fun trip to know.

Good fortune,

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jjstar
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22 Dec 2007, 8:00 pm

Sure - you should see my label collection - it keeps on growing
and growing
and growing


must be a pile at least 7 feet high!

Let's all get DSM happy!


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zendell
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22 Dec 2007, 8:44 pm

Quote:
I have at times considered a career as a psychologist, a career which could very well include me diagnosing these disorders, and I think it's pretty ridiculous to think that I would necessarily think that I am "better than everyone else" and that my patients are "inferior or unacceptable."


If you tell someone they have a personality disorder, you are telling them that there is something wrong with them. Presumably, your personality isn't considered disordered so you are saying that your personality is better than their personality. That makes your personality superior to their and their personality inferior to yours.

Quote:
Sometimes it helps for people to have these labels, at least for a little while, so that they can better understand their behavior and how to make themselves happier.


How would giving someone a label make them happier? Would you like it if I labeled you and told you that you had a personality disorder? People already know about their personality. Providing a label for someone's behavior is pointless. I would be very offended if you labeled my personality a disorder.

Quote:
If they were happy, then they probably wouldn't go to the shrink in the first place. I see your point that it is frustrating to label any eccentric behavior as a disorder, but I think the intentions for these labels are good.


Some schools force children to get a psychiatric evaluation. What good comes from being told there's something wrong with you because you act different?



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22 Dec 2007, 8:46 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
You also mention people with schizoid personality disorder do not typically have nonverbal communication deficits, which I have in spades, nor do they tend towards obsessive interests, which I do tend towards. Really, people with SPD have no social desires; people with AS have trouble with social interaction. Big difference.


What is really, really funny, is I used to know someone who was going into psychology. (She's now a psychologist and apparently claims to have expertise in the area of autism, heaven help her clients if she hasn't learned since then.) She insisted over and over again that my brother had no sign of AS, none whatsoever, that he was clearly and obviously schizoid.

I remember her citing (aside from his bad social skills), his obsessiveness and his "tendency to have collections of little objects" as being things in favor of "schizoid" instead of "AS". Which baffles me to this day.


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Mw99
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22 Dec 2007, 8:54 pm

anbuend wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
You also mention people with schizoid personality disorder do not typically have nonverbal communication deficits, which I have in spades, nor do they tend towards obsessive interests, which I do tend towards. Really, people with SPD have no social desires; people with AS have trouble with social interaction. Big difference.


What is really, really funny, is I used to know someone who was going into psychology. (She's now a psychologist and apparently claims to have expertise in the area of autism, heaven help her clients if she hasn't learned since then.) She insisted over and over again that my brother had no sign of AS, none whatsoever, that he was clearly and obviously schizoid.

I remember her citing (aside from his bad social skills), his obsessiveness and his "tendency to have collections of little objects" as being things in favor of "schizoid" instead of "AS". Which baffles me to this day.


Since when are psychology majors known to be the sharpest tools in the shed?



Eire
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22 Dec 2007, 8:59 pm

My major is psychology. I know some people have negative feelings about it, but I find it really interesting. I certainly don't feel in any way superior to others, I have as many problems as anyone else.



becca423b
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22 Dec 2007, 9:22 pm

persons who are schizoid do not desire relationships, and do not take pleasure in relationships, wheras i believe many aspies do. furthermore, persons with schizoid often have magical thinking or cognitive disruptions, and i would say most AS people are logical and fairly smart.



becca423b
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22 Dec 2007, 9:26 pm

another difference is that i think personality disorders are supposed to appear in adolescence, whereas developmental disorders appear much earlier, as a toddler. most diagnosis of developmental disorders are done in children, after all, but i believe personality disorders must be done in adolescents or adults. (for example, "magical thinking" is a normal part of being a child, but in an adult is indicative of schizoid personality disorder)



etre_creatif
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22 Dec 2007, 9:48 pm

They're pretty different things, why was this brought up?



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22 Dec 2007, 9:51 pm

becca423b wrote:
persons who are schizoid do not desire relationships, and do not take pleasure in relationships, wheras i believe many aspies do. furthermore, persons with schizoid often have magical thinking or cognitive disruptions, and i would say most AS people are logical and fairly smart.

another difference is that i think personality disorders are supposed to appear in adolescence, whereas developmental disorders appear much earlier, as a toddler. most diagnosis of developmental disorders are done in children, after all, but i believe personality disorders must be done in adolescents or adults. (for example, "magical thinking" is a normal part of being a child, but in an adult is indicative of schizoid personality disorder)

Deliciously illustrative. I have a strong desire for and take great pleasure in relationships; therefore I cannot be schizoid. I constantly experience magical thinking, and often cognitive disruptions; therefore I cannot be Asperger's; incidentally, I am also very smart and logical (though I feel compelled to point out that intelligence is not necessarily related to either Asperger's or schizoidism). And, icing on the cake, I displayed certain developmental "defects" during childhood; and I developed more as an adult.

Logical culmination of the various diagnostic criteria: I cannot exist.

Good fortune,

- Icarus defies all attempts at analysis and categorization...


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zendell
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22 Dec 2007, 10:00 pm

If you're really concerned about labels note that for both the ICD-10 and the DSM-IV-TR, you only need to have at least four of the 7-9 criteria mentioned. If four match and the other five are complete opposites, then you are still considered as having that "disorder".



becca423b
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22 Dec 2007, 10:19 pm

[quote="Icarus_Falling


Logical culmination of the various diagnostic criteria: I cannot exist.

Good fortune,

- Icarus defies all attempts at analysis and categorization...[/quote]


hmm.....have they come up with a marketable drug for nonexistance yet? maybe i could try it as i do not have a proper label either



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22 Dec 2007, 10:23 pm

Schizotypal personality disorder is one of the possible alternative diagnoses considered when I was diagnosed with Asperger's. However, in late months I have begun to exhibit extreme psychotic symptoms, which would suggest my condition had progressed into actual schizophrenia, an illness to which Schizotypal disorder is considered to be premorbid.

It would be difficult for me to accurately self-diagnose myself now that I am on anti-psychotics, although my behaviour is quite Schizoid. I have very little interest in social relations, and I usually abandon friendships through disinterest or stress. This could, however, simply be a reaction to the stress of my recent breakdowns, as I have read of similar reactions of schizophrenics during their recovery from a psychosis (loss of interest in friends, increased propensity towards solitary activity).


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richardbenson
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22 Dec 2007, 10:32 pm

just for a clearification, schizotypal and schiziod are not the same things

one is related to schizophrenia and schiziod is not