Do ALL people with AS have above average intelligence?

Post Reply New Topic

2ukenkerl,

It's under "d", "peculiar voice characteristics". It's easy enough to type "Asperger's" and "inflection" in a search engine, it'll be listed all over the place.

This is from the first site (it's a neurological disorder page):

The DSM-IV-TR allows AS and mental retardation to coexist, albeit rarely. It's probably better to give a diagnosis of PDD-NOS ("atypical autism") than AS for such cases, especially when they have adequate speech.

Well, I HAVE had C and D, and some might say E. Then again, I tend to figure things out, EVEN if I have been told and understand, myself, so that may cloud that issue.

AS never said above average general IQ. They COULD put the normal->above back though. And they are SUPPOSED to be narrow! I would suggest better criteria myself if I saw enough of a pattern to further break things down. It would be neat to say X is diagnosed with Y, so he is GREAT with music.

He won't listen, guys. I found a complete copy of the DMS-IV of AS online, and nowhere did it state that an AS diagnosis required a high IQ. He insisted it was true. Arguing is pointless, he won't change his mind.

It's elitist, in my opinion, to have AS be only for the smart Aspies. Last I heard and last I read, it was average to above average, not above average to genius.

And it's fairly rude of you to judge someone by their IQ. You've never even met Martin Bryant, and you label him as you see fit.

How do you explain this:

( Taken from the homepage of WP)



There said it in bold.


It's even said in books too except they say "They have average to above average intelligence."

It's been said on web pages too.

It does say "they will have to be reminded to talk softly". Obviously, they DON'T "Lack the ability". They, like several here including myself have said, have a problem with subconciously regulating the tone properly.

Still, their writing, like yours, is an interpretation. Maybe that is the whole problem with the psychiatric industry. Too much is SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION.

I heard things about quotes from Einstein and Freud that were CLEARLY NOT possible! I got books written by both of them that speak of some of those statements. Einstein strongly implied it WASN'T possible! He was only theorizing about things if it was. Freud spoke about various conditions, etc...

Ana, you have many interests from what I gather and I bet you know alot about those interests so give yourself some credit because smart people have interests and know alot about them.

When I was 12 years old, my IQ was tested. My skills in mathematics was that of a sixteen year old, my skills in reading were of an 18 year old, and my skills in composition were of a 22 year old. I did, however, get a low performance (visual spatial) IQ score. Ironically I am very good at puzzles when I am actually interested in them. When I am not however, I do horribly.

As 2ukenkerl pointed out, that won't fly because the diagnosis was disputed. And personally, I'd prefer him (Martin Bryant - 2ukenkerl ) not to not be considered aspie - it's a big stain.

I find it hard to believe his IQ was that low. Maybe he had ignorant doctors. I used to score low on IQ tests too when I was little and as I got older I started to score average and above average.

Daniel, you are being way too harsh on what constitutes a visible speech impediment. For example;

About half of homosexual males have this, and yet most of them aren't AS. And besides, it is NOT an impediment. It is a CHARACTERISTIC!

Also, the majority of AS adults have current issues with B, C and E! A only applies to childhood, and it's a historical note only. The delay is indistinguisable by adult hood. (No offence to 2ukenkerl who claims D - but I did say Daniel was being harsh in his interpretation of D).



No assessment has been properly done, because Bryant withdrew into himself the minute he went into Risdon Jail. He refuses to co-operate with any psychiatrist. So the report you read (both of them - and I did know about the second one) is pure speculation. And as 2ukenkerl said, as indeed I did before him, an IQ of 60 is an instant LFA (not PDD-NOS) for someone on the Spectrum. IF he is on the Spectrum.



It will, and you're wrong. The numbers won't change that much, unless they set the average threshold at 110 instead of 100 as they should. Ditto the other end although I won't mind so much if they set that at 70 (the intellectual disability threshold) instead of 80 simply because it's practical. That actually would be the concern because it's likely they won't include numbers. The thing about the DSM is that it's open to interpretation - and that's why it has been altered at least four times (included the TR addition to the DSM-IV in 1999) to try and specify matters.

A great example of this is the final criteria listed on the DSM-IV - which is where the intelligence criteria lies, within interpretation. I've seen that happen, hence how I know it's true that intelligence level is a criteria. It's also how I know that it is highly likely to be included in the DSM-V. You can't beat personal experience. The trouble is (and this is why certain people don't believe me) my experience has no sourced back up. That's a pain in the neck to be honest.

Which should answer Spokane Girl's earlier comment as well.

Daniel is right about this though - the rare co-existence of AS and MR. That will be interpreted in the DSM-V as PDD-NOS. As it should.

On what Spokane Girl just said now - it's feasible that Bryant has an IQ of 60. His behaviour was like that of a child all the way through the trial from what I remember - even asking for a can of Pepsi when he was asked the serious question of whether or not he had anything to say about the charges against him.

TLPG,

Here's something from a research paper (problems with language):

This is in relation to putting words to sentences; it's obvious that those with autism are worst in this area, but those with AS are impaired compared to "normal" people too.

Also, the Crown psychiatrist said he had AS; that's far more weight than any self-diagnosis.

The DSM-V with its above-average IQ threshold doesn't exist yet; do you have any articles that state it will have one?

Many of the articles/research papers I've read state that they should remove Asperger's itself and have autism with and without mental retardation, and PDD-NOS.

Other things have shown that conclusions that autistic people lack global coherence are not supported by the studies that are used to claim them.

A question, let's imagine this DSM-V criteria:

If AS autism + average IQ = diagnosis PDD-Nos
then what about: Above average IQ + Kanner's autism = ??
Would there have to be a change according to the change in there Asperger's criteria?

I'd think it's not a good idea to diagnose the kind of autism by considering intelligence, as mostly children would have to be re-evaluated many times for no reason over than scoring higher by becoming verbal. That's not very practical and it does pose the risk that people are misdiagnosed. But it would show that either current assumptions about the IQ or the test to measure the IQ are false.

I'm confused as to what 'silence' means here. Do you mean a delay in language development when you say the word silence? (I may have missed someone mentioning it before you, if that's the case, sorry.)

i remember thinking as a kid that i wished i had just stayed, "shutted-up" lol

I posted on Parents Discussion similar topic. My son had gifted IQ, initially, and then above average with gifted in some areas on subtest. He is precosiously verbose and has always been understood as very bright since he was a preschooler (I think because of his focus and language) and intensity.

His diagnosis is pdd-nos with AS traits but due to his appropriateness in shifting topics, he was given dx of pdd-nos and not AS. Yet, he never had any delays with language or cognitively and is far from MR. Due to being mildly affected, he was considered pdd-nos, on the subthreshold (whatever this means).

Maybe the AS idx s reserved for kids with a high discrepency between verbal and performance?

He is very uneven--scoring 130 on language/writing samples and average in math with difficulty subtracting! This same kid sketched out an amazing 4D shape and was obsessed and is certainly interested in physics, quantities, depth, measurements and othe rmath/science related topics.

That research paper is talking about the lower end of the Spectrum. It does not mention Aspergers.



I repeat - he can't have done a proper examination, because Bryant himself wouldn't have allowed it by withdrawing into himself. So the Crown psychiatrist SPECULATED. So did the other one. They couldn't do any better because Bryant wouldn't let them near him (or anyone else for that matter).



As stated, I am speaking from experience - as in speaking to someone who knows about it. He is involved in the process and knows what is going on. There are NO sources for this reason.



That's HFA, Sora.



There is a proper IQ testing procedure, and this will be forced to improve in order to be used correctly. It will also be the end (in a way) for online tests, because they aren't proper tests. A proper IQ test is a complicated procedure. Simple testing brings up different scores all the time depending on the emphasis on the test. This will be one of the positives of the DSM-V when it is completed.



No, I mean the child begins to talk much later than what is considered normal.