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bizmack
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10 Jan 2008, 6:12 am

purplesky wrote:
It seems they want to be trapped in the victim status. There are three important lessons to learn in life; to be a good fighter, to be melodramatic at the right times, and to be a good liar. These techniques are only to be used if talking will clearly not work.
If someone starts mouthing off towards you, do whatever you can get away with against the perp. If you can get away with physical aggression, do as much damage as possible. The best way to fight would be to go for the vulnerable areas of the body. To be a great fighter you must have wit, strength and stamina. Always stand your ground. If you can get away with, you can"lose" some of the objects he holds dear. If this doesn't go as planned you can report the person to any superiors; exaggerate any complaints you have and produce your own "proof".If you record events in a journal they will automatically take action. Remember, the more innocent you look the more help you will get. Learn how to cry or break down at all of the right moments (ie when it will gain you sympathy) and you will be set for life. Portray him as one of the most vile monsters to walk the earth. The law is not our friend; the law only helps NTs who wish to bully us. It is time to fight the injustice.


First off let me disagree with you comletely for the following reasons:

1) It isnt the fact that most of us with AS arent willing to fight more than the fact that most of us are unable. Weary of past social and acceptable behavior usually take their toll over time and either make most of us either extremely gulliable or anti social. Add a complex or two and you may find a lot of aspies to be passive agressive.

2) It is my opinion that every person with AS is already a fighter because they are still alive. Anyone who knows they are differant, likes the truth, and lives in rationallity while most claim to attribute great character to this while mocking them knows all too well that people in general are judgemental and conforming.

3) Acting like and idiot and playing the game which has been played upon you does nothing at best than provides for a momentary sense of relief and soon after adds to the asassination of your character and your individuallity.


And finally I would like to state that for thousands of years people have been abused and mistreated for simply being who they are. Killers kill each other and the peacful are preyed upon. So tell me what really is the difference providing anything other than a moral decision to be the bigger person. For me letting another alter my personallity for the sake of their own predisposed rightiousness fails as a reason to raise a finger to anyone or lie to a person to get back at them. Isn't it such a lovely society where it is being preached that being openly ignorant and abusive to one another is used to justify being who you are. There will always be an a*hole or an ignorant, ill mannered person pointing out your flaws. You are a victim when you let them affect your regular life as you have chosen to lead it. Be aware of who you are and play that to your ability to deal with life as it comes. I would think it would take one with more courage and boldness to be that in spite all of everyone else.


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10 Jan 2008, 10:16 am

I agree with numbers 1 & 2. The first sentence of #2 anyway, not sure what you were saying with the rest.

I believe that an Aspie will fight when he/she is ready. Some situations press an aspie to be passive, and it might take near death for him/her to stand up and kick some ass, but it inevitably happens.

A person with AS is really the last person you want to tangle with. Years of anger at the social injustice could dump out all over the victim in what sometimes turns out to be a bloody homicide.

Any NT that teases someone while knowing that someone has AS, is a total idiot. I'm not saying we're all easily given to heinous acts of violence... I'm saying that ultimately we are more capable of defending and offending than the average NT. We can be vicious animals if our life situation calls for it.

And I'm proud of that.



aaronrey
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10 Jan 2008, 10:28 am

Cho Seung Hui an example?



ButchCoolidge
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10 Jan 2008, 10:28 am

I don't think people with AS are any more victims than anyone else, really. Sure, we have a disadvantage in some ways, and maybe life has some extra challenges for us, but life is hard for everyone. Tons of people get made fun of, betrayed, deceived, hurt... it's just a part of life. Getting rid of AS would not be any sort of instant cure. Lots of aspies would probably be really disappointed to turn NT and to realize quickly that most people are still untrustworthy jerks and that many of life challenges (struggling to fit in, loneliness, finding a purpose and a good job) are still very much prevalent.

So, yeah, suck it up. I don't mean to sound cold, because trust me, I struggle a lot with my thoughts, loneliness, and all of that other stuff, so I'm not saying I'm above feeling sorry for myself, but in the end we all have problems and all we can do is do our best to soldier on.



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10 Jan 2008, 10:32 am

ButchCoolidge wrote:
I don't think people with AS are any more victims than anyone else, really. Sure, we have a disadvantage in some ways, and maybe life has some extra challenges for us, but life is hard for everyone. Tons of people get made fun of, betrayed, deceived, hurt... it's just a part of life. Getting rid of AS would not be any sort of instant cure. Lots of aspies would probably be really disappointed to turn NT and to realize quickly that most people are still untrustworthy jerks and that many of life challenges (struggling to fit in, loneliness, finding a purpose and a good job) are still very much prevalent.

So, yeah, suck it up. I don't mean to sound cold, because trust me, I struggle a lot with my thoughts, loneliness, and all of that other stuff, so I'm not saying I'm above feeling sorry for myself, but in the end we all have problems and all we can do is do our best to soldier on.



Bravo! Well spoken (written?). I agree you are only a victim if you allow yourself to be. I don't know how to be a victim apparently and that gets me in trouble occasionally. At any rate. I agree as well, that AS people might be extremely disappointed to find out that NTs have similar struggles. It's all part of (gasp***wait for it) the human experience.


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10 Jan 2008, 10:57 am

My experience with victimization is not an imaginative construct. I have no idea whether all aspies are, or have been, victims. However, I do know that, especially in my childhood, I was continually being victimized:

http://narrative.neurelitism.com

Thankfully, I overcame it.


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10 Jan 2008, 11:06 am

That's what I'm saying. It's a mindset. You overcame it. So, you are no longer a victim of it.


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nominalist
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10 Jan 2008, 11:15 am

Liverbird wrote:
That's what I'm saying. It's a mindset. You overcame it. So, you are no longer a victim of it.


I don't think it is a mindset, no. My victimization was objective. I did not imagine all of my bullies, the antipsychotic drugs, or the electroconvulsive treatments. I overcame victimization through personal struggle, not merely by changing my mindset.


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militarybrat
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10 Jan 2008, 8:52 pm

I agree with you in disagreeing with the quoted post. Personally, I find it deplorable. I don't like lying, manipulation or sympathy nor do I care for breaking down in public if it can be avoided. I do know how to fight back if I need to, its just that usually a personal attack on my self does not evoke that particular response. At least in the past, I am more open to defending myself now. It is a fact that aspies tend to be the idea victoms for bullying and have often be around the idea bullies, but it is not the "law" that caused this or somehow made it worse. To follow the advice in the post would be to sink to levels below my moral standards. This kind of action on the part of an aspie would also give aspies in general a bad reputation by association.



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10 Jan 2008, 9:28 pm

Well, people have had diverse experiences. I am, in some ways, envious of aspies born in the last two or three decades. They have had a much easier time that people of my generation. I was regularly blamed for being a victim of bullies. They did not know how to stop the bullies from hurting me, so they sent me to a special school (where the bullying continued). It was a very different time.


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militarybrat
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11 Jan 2008, 5:20 pm

nominalist, its not quite so different now, at least for everyone



nominalist
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11 Jan 2008, 5:26 pm

militarybrat wrote:
nominalist, its not quite so different now, at least for everyone


Okay. I am just basing what I wrote on the stories I have seen online. Of those folks I have come across, the worst life histories seem to be in my 50+ age range.


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anbuend
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11 Jan 2008, 5:34 pm

I think some of the posters are using the word "victim" to mean a particular state of mind, and others are using "victim" to mean an objective term that just means that someone did something bad to someone else.

Like, if a person robs your house, you're the victim of robbery. It doesn't mean anything about your state of mind at all.


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nominalist
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11 Jan 2008, 5:41 pm

anbuend wrote:
I think some of the posters are using the word "victim" to mean a particular state of mind, and others are using "victim" to mean an objective term that just means that someone did something bad to someone else.


I know. However, I personally see the "state of mind" definition as psychological reductionism. As a sociologist, I am interested in looking at measurable rates of objective victimization, not in the Oprah-esque approach to how people "feel" about it. ;-)


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11 Jan 2008, 7:59 pm

nominalist wrote:
anbuend wrote:
I think some of the posters are using the word "victim" to mean a particular state of mind, and others are using "victim" to mean an objective term that just means that someone did something bad to someone else.


I know. However, I personally see the "state of mind" definition as psychological reductionism.


So do I, actually. I really have trouble seeing it anything other than "someone did something to this person", rather than... whatever strangeness about "You're only a victim if you let people" (which sounds strangely like "If someone manages to harm you in some way, it's your own fault" to my ears.)


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nominalist
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11 Jan 2008, 8:13 pm

anbuend wrote:
So do I, actually. I really have trouble seeing it anything other than "someone did something to this person", rather than... whatever strangeness about "You're only a victim if you let people" (which sounds strangely like "If someone manages to harm you in some way, it's your own fault" to my ears.)


Sure, it is just a round-about way of blaming the victim. Now, I am not advocating that people harbor resentments. However, overcoming hard feelings is, IMO, a separate issue from victimization. Unfortunately, much of modern pop psychology tries to conflate them.


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Last edited by nominalist on 11 Jan 2008, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.