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Kaleido
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22 Mar 2008, 5:12 am

I know someone who pretends to have Aspergers; what they really have is a mental health problem involving periods of depression. I am not sure if they really believe they are Aspie or just needed a place to fit in. As has already been said, it can be quite easy for people who genuinely have Aspergers to spot the NTs at times.

Having spent most of my life trying to fit in and appear normal, I cannot understand why anyone would want to be seen as autistic apart from to fit in somewhere. My AS has caused me many problems in my life but I suppose if the person can pretend when it suits them, then they won't have the same difficulties.



cataspie
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22 Mar 2008, 8:10 am

I doubt there would be much to gain for an NT or even an ill person from faking an ASD.Most people with an ASD are trying to fake being NT for good reason,i think most NTs hate people on the spectrum and people being neurologically different from them.Most NTs will bully such a person and if they find out about the person having an ASD will not accept it because of there own behaviour.I think alot of people on the spectrum are mostly nicer more honest people and more intelligent than the general population.
Of course there is also some who think they are on the spectrum and or have traits which is possible as ive heard it so much on here from relatives so alot could be genes.Some personalitys maybe more recluse genius types of course this can cause problems in a world where intelligence and knoledge is frowned upon.
Sarcasm.....
I think NTs get attention for being that i am often amazed at the things people cry about on tv and how much of a fuss is made of them when they do :roll: .



mikegee
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22 Mar 2008, 8:30 am

I think NTs get attention for being that i am often amazed at the things people cry about on tv and how much of a fuss is made of them when they do :roll: .[/quote]

hehe my mom and dad both have aspie traits, as do i.

your quote reminds me of something funny that happened a lot when i was a kid; i wanted to share it with you all, it's kinda funny :)

when we would all sit down as a family for dinner, on friday nites we would all gather round the tv and watch while we ate dinner, usually pizza.

when a show was on with high emotions, usually some dramatic show, and a woman would be crying, or other people would be sad and upset on some particular tv show, my mom would blurt out "oh boohoo, poor baby!" and just sit there stern faced. my father, being a psychologist, would just mutter things like "hmmmmph!" and study with laser beam precision the facial emotions of the actors as the drama unfolded.

i wanna write a book of what it was like being raised by aspies. wouldnt that be cool???

mike
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2ukenkerl
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22 Mar 2008, 9:06 am

Danielismyname wrote:
I know what audible hallucinations sound like, but I don't say I have schizophrenia; if I thought I did, I'd take one of those tests, and I did, I scored high on such, but I've been assessed for schizophrenia, and a professional found that I didn't have it. I can read anecdotes, clinical sites, and bend myself to fit the diagnostic criteria, and hey, I probably can--too bad I manifest nothing like someone with the aforementioned disorder, no matter how much I think I do. The professionals define and see these disorders in action; they know what to look for.

Simple.


Actually, we ALL know you are wriong there because there are lists they go down that are open to interpretation, and many people here that were told they DID and DIDN'T have something from various "professionals".

I wish this WAS so cut and dry. I probably WOULD go and be checked out.

And thinking that ONE thing will show what you have is just DUMB. An elevated temperature doesn't even mean you have a sickness.(drugs, poisons, etc...) A heart arythmia might actually be NORMAL!(Drugs, poisons, and shock) High blood pressure doesn't mean you have high blood pressure(Maybe you underwent MAJOR exertion prior to it). So even the SIMPLEST of symptoms requires that you have more information to be SURE.



Danielismyname
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22 Mar 2008, 9:19 am

I implied that I had more "symptoms" of the aforementioned disorder, and the online tests say I do. I don't have said disorder as I was specifically told that I don't as I don't present the symptoms how they're supposed to be presented.

I present the symptoms of an ASD, and that's what professionals said I have.

In my case, schizophrenia and the ASD were overlapping in many areas; I didn't care which one I thought I had, all I cared for was objective accuracy, and saying I have either of the two via my own research isn't accurate, nor is it objective. I needed confirmation as whatever it was I had was severely affecting my life, and I needed to know what was wrong with me for there's treatment available for certain conditions, and if not, I can stop expecting certain things of myself if there's no chance that I could do certain things due to the [unknown] disorder I had.



Mikhaillost
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22 Mar 2008, 9:21 am

autism0 wrote:

And going to far as to take a vow of silence. A vow of being intentionally non-verbal. And to never look at people's faces again. It eases their burden.

Anyone else here of this type of occurrence?


Well. I may be reading your post here wrong. I do want to be non-verbal, but that is because I was sort of forced into talking... Talking, listening, being around people is extremely uncomfortable. I really do have Asperger's syndrome, but I am verbal... I am very bad at talking and actually if I have something important to get across, and I have time, I will write it because it is more direct and less jumbled than if I were to speak it.



2ukenkerl
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22 Mar 2008, 9:51 am

sinsboldly wrote:
...

of course, I can't speak of annointed psychologist giving me the high sign, the secret handshake and the key to the executive washroom once I was inducted into the Diagnosed Aspie Club (no NTs allowed!) but you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Merle


GREAT WAY TO PUT IT! :lol:



Sora
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22 Mar 2008, 10:10 am

I doubt many people could possibly fake ASDs, doubt it greatly. Exceptionally observers and actors can maybe.

What distinguishes autistic people and non-autistic people is not a voluntary choice. Sure, if the talk's going to be about the very hf of the spectrum, then there are things that are to fake and that are associated with ASDs. But the underlying autism, still there in the most hf individual, cannot be faked.

The read of body language comes natural to NTs. Most of them don't know about it even. They pick up on non-verbal cues whether they want or not, though they can fake the extent of eye-contact and feign ignorance of the emotional state of others to a degree. But these two don't make anyone autistic. These are just side effects.

There are studies for example. An NT involuntarily glances at the eyes of a person first, an autistic just doesn't.



cataspie
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22 Mar 2008, 10:33 am

People who have been abused or neglected can show sign's sometimes a little bit like autism so that would'nt be faking it.
Though i never was sexually abused(social services know the signs to be able to tell)there is the chance i myself seemed alot more autistic as a child due to neglect.The social worker said i never cryed as a baby and that i had been neglected so badly i had stopped crying.
At first alot of my behaviour was put down to neglect but when i started to talk in a monotone voice when i spoke they thought HFA.The problem is people can have sensory issues due to ill treatment as well.If someone has been very badly treated in there very early childhood it can alter the brain.Children who have been raised by animals have been thought of as showing autistic traits.
My social worker described me as an absent minded proffessor as a child and as having an autistic personality.It annoys me that anyone would say i was faking who i am because i am the person i have always been with the quirks which have always been there.Maybe one day there will be tests that are 100% accurate but if that happens i think the problem would then be that people could be made to neurologically fit in and then there would be people hassleing those who did'nt take the cure.



NeantHumain
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22 Mar 2008, 10:46 am

autism0 wrote:
The artificial adoption of aspergers, or autism, even profound autism (though extremely rare), is of incredible therapeutic value for them. This involves a letting-go of having to fit in, it provides an legitimate excuse for their problems, people have great sympathy for them, people will help them emotionally and financially, and so on. And their obligations to themselves and others are greatly lessened. And they are not held to high standards any longer, and as such do not feel bound by what others expect of them. They retreat into the safety of autism or aspergers, and retreat from the typical social world.

I find this to be a very creative approach by them, to deal with an otherwise horrific situation they are dealing with. The intentional adoption of autism or aspergers, as therapy.

And going to far as to take a vow of silence. A vow of being intentionally non-verbal. And to never look at people's faces again. It eases their burden.

Anyone else here of this type of occurrence?

This sounds like what Millon et al. described as the decompensated personality in Disorders of Personality: DSM-IV and Beyond. The idea is that, when people reach a level where even a structurally defective personality disorder (i.e., schizotypal, borderline, and paranoid personality disorders) doesn't enable them to cope, their personality may decompensate to a structural level of psychosis (the authors contrasted decompensated personality disorders with psychotic disorders, which are episodic and transient). In the DSM-IV system, most cases of decompensated personalities would fall under the broad rubric of schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. It must be noted, however, that personality decompensation is not a truly voluntary choice.



mikegee
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22 Mar 2008, 10:50 am

cataspie wrote:
.Maybe one day there will be tests that are 100% accurate but if that happens i think the problem would then be that people could be made to neurologically fit in and then there would be people hassleing those who did'nt take the cure.


i dont think i'd take the cure. i am who i am because of who i am. i wouldn't want to not be me anymore. or a fake me. i like who i am. this doesnt mean i dont believe in improving myself, there is always room for improvements, but there is a big difference for improving one's self for the benefit of one's self, vs improving one's self for the benefit of society as a whole.

i dont judge myself based on other people. i value my skills and talents, and i wouldnt want to impede these skills and talents. and i believe we are aspie for a reason. not just a biological reason. perhaps spiritually, or for those who dont believe in spirituality, perhaps an evolutionary reason.

i prefer to think outside the box, and maybe you may find my ideas far fetched or egocentric, that's just fine with me. you can even vehemently disagree with anything i say here, and i think that's great. that's maybe the best thing about being an aspie, i can believe whatever the heck i wanna believe, and i really dont much care what other people think. try and get an NT to say that. rare.

once again, i have no personal issues with NTs, they are who they are, so be it. but we are who we are also, so be that too!

but i want to express a hope for synergy; both for aspies working together, and also for aspies and NTs working together also. it's our only hope:

synergy: the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy

viva la aspie! viva la NT! viva eventual synergistic union!

mike
http://www.myspace.com/mikegeorgemusic


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22 Mar 2008, 10:55 am

I never heard of anyone intentionally faking autism or aspergers. Some mental illnesses can have symptoms similar to AS.



Sora
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22 Mar 2008, 10:58 am

cataspie wrote:
People who have been abused or neglected can show sign's sometimes a little bit like autism so that would'nt be faking it.
Though i never was sexually abused(social services know the signs to be able to tell)there is the chance i myself seemed alot more autistic as a child due to neglect.The social worker said i never cryed as a baby and that i had been neglected so badly i had stopped crying.
At first alot of my behaviour was put down to neglect but when i started to talk in a monotone voice when i spoke they thought HFA.The problem is people can have sensory issues due to ill treatment as well.If someone has been very badly treated in there very early childhood it can alter the brain.Children who have been raised by animals have been thought of as showing autistic traits.
My social worker described me as an absent minded proffessor as a child and as having an autistic personality.It annoys me that anyone would say i was faking who i am because i am the person i have always been with the quirks which have always been there.Maybe one day there will be tests that are 100% accurate but if that happens i think the problem would then be that people could be made to neurologically fit in and then there would be people hassleing those who did'nt take the cure.


True, thank you for writing that! But I think the OP meant people who voluntarily/intentionally act autistic when they don't have autism-like symptoms to begin with. I don't think anyone could accuse you of faking or having been more autistic due to neglect, because that is just how you really grew up. Not what you choose.

(That's interesting about sensory issues. I experienced that sensory issues can disappear by abuse, but I hadn't thought about the opposite yet. It seems logical that it can happen too.)



cataspie
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22 Mar 2008, 11:39 am

mikegee wrote:
cataspie wrote:
.Maybe one day there will be tests that are 100% accurate but if that happens i think the problem would then be that people could be made to neurologically fit in and then there would be people hassleing those who did'nt take the cure.


i dont think i'd take the cure. i am who i am because of who i am. i wouldn't want to not be me anymore. or a fake me. i like who i am. this doesnt mean i dont believe in improving myself, there is always room for improvements, but there is a big difference for improving one's self for the benefit of one's self, vs improving one's self for the benefit of society as a whole.

i dont judge myself based on other people. i value my skills and talents, and i wouldnt want to impede these skills and talents. and i believe we are aspie for a reason. not just a biological reason. perhaps spiritually, or for those who dont believe in spirituality, perhaps an evolutionary reason.

i prefer to think outside the box, and maybe you may find my ideas far fetched or egocentric, that's just fine with me. you can even vehemently disagree with anything i say here, and i think that's great. that's maybe the best thing about being an aspie, i can believe whatever the heck i wanna believe, and i really dont much care what other people think. try and get an NT to say that. rare.

once again, i have no personal issues with NTs, they are who they are, so be it. but we are who we are also, so be that too!

but i want to express a hope for synergy; both for aspies working together, and also for aspies and NTs working together also. it's our only hope:

synergy: the phenomenon in which two or more discrete influences or agents acting together create an effect greater than that predicted by knowing only the separate effects of the individual agents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy

viva la aspie! viva la NT! viva eventual synergistic union!

mike
http://www.myspace.com/mikegeorgemusic


I would say my son is NT with some AS traits like handflapping,we help each other it works well.



Pithlet
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22 Mar 2008, 11:41 am

Danielismyname wrote:
I implied that I had more "symptoms" of the aforementioned disorder, and the online tests say I do. I don't have said disorder as I was specifically told that I don't as I don't present the symptoms how they're supposed to be presented.

I present the symptoms of an ASD, and that's what professionals said I have.

In my case, schizophrenia and the ASD were overlapping in many areas; I didn't care which one I thought I had, all I cared for was objective accuracy, and saying I have either of the two via my own research isn't accurate, nor is it objective. I needed confirmation as whatever it was I had was severely affecting my life, and I needed to know what was wrong with me for there's treatment available for certain conditions, and if not, I can stop expecting certain things of myself if there's no chance that I could do certain things due to the [unknown] disorder I had.


Professionals are not always objective. They have their biases too. They often either compare your apparent behavior to someone else who has it, or to a piece of paper. They can get it just as wrong as someone who's self diagnosed. Look how many people here have had to see multiple professionals to figure out what they have. They can't all be right can they? According to you they must be. A fresh set of eyes may be helpful, but it's no gaurentee to get a more correct answer than the one you came up with on your own. Most people that think they have it aren't just relying on an online test. They obviously want to research everything they can, and really only they and their families are are able to think back and make comparisons from the past. A single visit to an office is no scale model of a person's entire life. For that reason, doctors can often jump to mistaken conclusions more than the self educated patients. So is it really worth it for alot of aspies to spend thousands of dollars on the gamble that they may get a decent doctor who can see all of the things that need to be seen? For what? So that they're allowed to talk about it on the internet with the "real" aspies?



Last edited by Pithlet on 22 Mar 2008, 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kaleido
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22 Mar 2008, 11:48 am

Pithlet wrote:
Professionals are not always objective. They have their biases too. They often either compare your apparent behavior to someone else who has it, or to a piece of paper. They can get it just as wrong as someone who's self diagnosed. Look how many people here have had to see multiple professionals to figure out what they have. They can't all be right can they?


I agree its a bit of a minefield, but when you see someone who has specialised in autism and has seen many people, I think its going to be a lot more accurate. I do think there are key pointers that are inescapable too.